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Dual Citizenship

walktheline

Star Member
Oct 28, 2016
86
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While I agree with your sentiment that Canadian political elites of both governing parties have been far too flippant about citizenship rights recently, I wouldn't readily concede the point that Canadian citizenship is only a statutory right and not a constitutional one. Many aspects of C-24 were clearly unconstitutional and probably would have been found as such if they were in front of the Supreme Court. But at the end of the day, there are no guarantees in life: The European Union and all its guarantees are not written in stone either....see Brexit.
Britain is a special case, unlike many other countries, it does not have its own Constitution, everything is flexible, but when Britain joined EU, the EU convention and court became the defacto Constitution which any amendments require all member states ratification and at least 10 years to complete. So in comparison I would think it's almost like written in stone. Specially most rights EU citizens enjoy are in these treaties and convention. That's why these rights (such as free movement) are not compromised, if Britain does not like then it has to leave. While in Canada, not many rights are clearly from the Constitution, this ruling is just an example.
 
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Stef.

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2017
603
164
Citizenship is an important matter. Anyone who doesn't look into the ramifications of taking another citizenship (at minimum, a simple Google search: "countries that don't allow dual citizenship") is making a big mistake. If a person doesn't know how to search online, visit a library. That's what reference librarians do, find out the answers to questions.
I fully agree, but firstly the laws are changing constantly in Europe right now, e.g. you were not allowed to have two European citizenships until not long ago and just lately this has changed and secondly...you might easily make the mistake to apply first for the Canadian citizenship and only then look into the consequences. This alone can cost you your German citizenship as it clearly states on the German consulate website that you have to apply for the permission FIRST before STARTING the Canadian citizenship process.

It could have easily happened to me to just get the process going in Canada before looking into the fine print of the German regulations.
Stef.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
Britain is a special case, unlike many other countries, it does not have its own Constitution, everything is flexible, but when Britain joined EU, the EU convention and court became the defacto Constitution which any amendments require all member states ratification and at least 10 years to complete. So in comparison I would think it's almost like written in stone. Specially most rights EU citizens enjoy are in these treaties and convention. That's why these rights (such as free movement) are not compromised, if Britain does not like then it has to leave. While in Canada, not many rights are clearly from the Constitution, this ruling is just an example.

And if Le Pen wins in 2022 (after Macron pisses everyone off)? What of France's relationship to the EU? I wish the EU were as solid as you make it sound. Heck, thousands of UK citizens living abroad are poised to be stripped of their EU citizenship without so much as having had a vote in the matter. These are strange times...
 

Rigly68

Hero Member
Apr 16, 2013
768
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This alone can cost you your German citizenship as it clearly states on the German consulate website that you have to apply for the permission FIRST before STARTING the Canadian citizenship process.
Stef.
You have to have the permission before you take the oath - it is recommended as per the Toronto consulate to apply for the permission before you start the process but you do not have to. And with the short processing times of Canadian Citizenship applications it does make sense as you have to have the permission before you take the oath. Also once permission is granted you have to acquire your Canadian citizenship within a certain timeframe or the permission expires.....
 

Stef.

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2017
603
164
You have to have the permission before you take the oath - it is recommended as per the Toronto consulate to apply for the permission before you start the process but you do not have to. And with the short processing times of Canadian Citizenship applications it does make sense as you have to have the permission before you take the oath. Also once permission is granted you have to acquire your Canadian citizenship within a certain timeframe or the permission expires.....
No, it does not really expire. You have the permission for two years and if the Canadian citizenship application is not through yet you just have to send them a quick email and it will be extended for another two years and so forth, I have that part in writing.
 

Rigly68

Hero Member
Apr 16, 2013
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No, it does not really expire. You have the permission for two years and if the Canadian citizenship application is not through yet you just have to send them a quick email and it will be extended for another two years and so forth, I have that part in writing.
How things are going now I don't think you will need to extend it anyway ;). Processing times hopefully will stay short for a while.
My permission was granted fairly quick so I got it just shortly before taking the oath.
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
83
Britain is a special case, unlike many other countries, it does not have its own Constitution...
This is incorrect. Britain DOES have a constitution. The British Constitution is comprised of Parliamentary Acts, Royal Charters, legal precedents, and long standing customs; in which respect, it is not very different from the Canadian Constitution.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
This is incorrect. Britain DOES have a constitution. The British Constitution is comprised of Parliamentary Acts, Royal Charters, legal precedents, and long standing customs; in which respect, it is not very different from the Canadian Constitution.

Well, there is no one written document and with the doctrine of parliamentary supremacy with no judicial review, the government can pretty much do whatever it wants. Some even say the UK parliament could unilaterally repeal Canadian independence. In regards to citizenship rights, the Home Secretary currently enjoys the right to strip UK citizenship from anyone pretty much at their discretion and there isn't much one can do about it.
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
83
Well, there is no one written document and with the doctrine of parliamentary supremacy with no judicial review, the government can pretty much do whatever it wants. Some even say the UK parliament could unilaterally repeal Canadian independence. In regards to citizenship rights, the Home Secretary currently enjoys the right to strip UK citizenship from anyone pretty much at their discretion and there isn't much one can do about it.
The British Parliament may repeal its 1982 act patriating the Canadian Constitution but, without a corresponding act by the Canadian Parliament, it would have no legal impact on Canadian independence, de jure or de facto, short of military conquest.

It should be noted (especially for those studying for the citizenship exam) that the Canadian Constitution, like its British counterpart, is not contained in any single document.

The British Constitution, unlike the Canadian, enshrines Parliamentary Supremacy -- but that does not mean that Parliament may act outside its constitutional limits. The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom (SCOTUK) exercises judicial review over Parliamentary legislation, which is a check on the legislative branch. The constitutional philosophy of Parliamentary Supremacy acts as a check on the Judiciary, the Lords (Temporal and Spiritual) and the Crown. Thus, the British Government is subject to the same sorts of checks and balances inherent in any modern, liberal democracy. Notwithstanding some striking differences in the British and Canadian forms of government, Britain still has a constitution within which its government is constrained to act.
 
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links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
The British Parliament may repeal its 1982 act patriating the Canadian Constitution but, without a corresponding act by the Canadian Parliament, it would have no impact on Canadian independence, de jure or de facto, short of military conquest.

It should be noted (especially for those studying for the citizenship exam) that the Canadian Constitution, like its British counterpart, is not contained in any single document.

Under the terms of the British Constitution, and unlike the Canadian, Parliament reigns supreme -- but that does not mean that Parliament may act outside its constitutional limits. The Supreme Court of the United Kingdom (SCOTUK) exercises judicial review over Parliamentary legislation, which is a check on Parliamentary power. The constitutional philosophy of Parliamentary Supremacy acts as a check on SCOTUK, the Lords (Temperal and Spiritual) and the Crown. Thus, the British Government is subject to the same sorts of checks and balances inherent in any modern, liberal democracy. Notwithstanding some striking differences in the British and Canadian forms of government, Britain still has a constitution within which its government is constrained to act.
But the parliament could, by a majority vote, simply abolish the SCOTUK, or modify any of the precepts of its constitution by a similar measure. Constitutions can always be amended, even ii places with strong constitutions like the US, but it is much more difficult than a simple majority vote.
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
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But the parliament could, by a majority vote, simply abolish the SCOTUK, or modify any of the precepts of its constitution by a similar measure. Constitutions can always be amended, even ii places with strong constitutions like the US, but it is much more difficult than a simple majority vote.
The "people" are an important component of the British Constitution, and this component has historically exercised its own check over the various branches of Government, not only by the ballot, but by public demonstration, open revolt, and full-blown armed rebellion. A Parliament that modified the Constitution in open defiance of the will of the people might very well face more than electoral defeat at the next election.

In fact, Parliament's fear of the peoples' power has led it to make compromises that have seen Britain mostly avoid the sorts of large scale, metropolitan-wide disturbances that racked the Continent in recent centuries (e.g., The French Revolution, The French Terror, the revolutions of 1848, the French and Russian Mutinies of World War I, the socialist takeovers of the 1920-30s).

I would argue that the U.S. Constitution may be one of the worst written constitutions in use today. It contains very few particulars and speaks in generalities that not only invite, but down right require, judicial review. The U.S. Constitution mandates, for example, that laws originate in Congress, instead of the Executive Branch, which means all national legislation is composed by Congressional committee. This results in laws that contain so many compromises that legislation often contains verbiage that contradicts other verbiage in the same law; and clauses so vaporous as to be nearly (but not entirely) devoid of meaning. Parties who suffer losses from the way these laws are implemented can easily find support for their positions in other parts of the very same law, which gives them standing to sue. When the Supreme Court rules on how these bad laws are to be interpreted, legislators scream "activist judges", even though it was these very same legislators who delegated their legislative authority to the courts by writing such poorly drafted laws! (Most legislators are attorneys and know what well drafted laws look like, which leads one to believe they intentionally delegate their authority to the courts because they are too craven to take political responsibility for their legislative actions.)
 
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