Driver’s License

[EddieCrown]

Just wondering if I can still drive a car alone with my Learner’s license together with my International Driver’s permit (IDP). When I passed my exam at Registry they took my Foreign license and changed it to a Learner. I tried to get my road test done but there is no available spot for this year’s. Am I still be able to drive my car alone with my Learner’s license and International driver’s permit and with a photo copy of my foreign driver’s license??
Your answer will so much be appreciated! Thank you!

 

[vensak]

Just wondering if I can still drive a car alone with my Learner’s license together with my International Driver’s permit (IDP). When I passed my exam at Registry they took my Foreign license and changed it to a Learner. I tried to get my road test done but there is no available spot for this year’s. Am I still be able to drive my car alone with my Learner’s license and International driver’s permit and with a photo copy of my foreign driver’s license??
Your answer will so much be appreciated! Thank you!

did they take just your local driving licence or also the international version of it (usually it is a separate booklet)? If you still have that booklet you are good to go.

 

[EddieCrown]

did they take just your local driving licence or also the international version of it (usually it is a separate booklet)? If you still have that booklet you are good to go.

Hi, Thanks for the reply. they just took my foreign driver’s licence. I only have my International driver’s permit (just the permit not driver’s licence) right now and my learner’s. You think i’m all good to go sir/maam??

 

[Buletruck]

An IDP is not a license and isn’t valid without the accompanying license it was issued for. In short, no, you can’t use it as a license to drive. You need to follow the requirements of the learners permit you now hold.

 

[vensak]

Hi, Thanks for the reply. they just took my foreign driver’s licence. I only have my International driver’s permit (just the permit not driver’s licence) right now and my learner’s. You think i’m all good to go sir/maam??

ok if driving abroad you would use that international version anyway (even to rent cars). It should be with your photo and all details there. Just make sure you have the correct version for Canada (there are 2 conventions - Vienna and Geneva).
Also it depends a bit on your province. For Ontario for example, you can use it for first 2 months after settling down in Ontario.
And of course you will not be able to buy a car with it (to be exact you would not get a car insurance nor be able to register it to get plates), but you can rent a car or drive it alone.
I was on international driving licence for first 2-3 months as well (I had your problem, where all dates were booked out for a good month and a half in advance).

 

[vensak]

An IDP is not a license and isn’t valid without the accompanying license it was issued for. In short, no, you can’t use it as a license to drive. You need to follow the requirements of the learners permit you now hold.

that would be only case if he was trying to use Canadian international driving licence to use in Canada. IDP specific usage is to use it when driving abroad. So yes it is a substitute for his local driving licence when driving in Canada for a limited period of time of course. However he will need correct version for it.

For Canada I think it is Geneva convention.

 

[zardoz]

Just wondering if I can still drive a car alone with my Learner’s license together with my International Driver’s permit (IDP). When I passed my exam at Registry they took my Foreign license and changed it to a Learner. I tried to get my road test done but there is no available spot for this year’s. Am I still be able to drive my car alone with my Learner’s license and International driver’s permit and with a photo copy of my foreign driver’s license??
Your answer will so much be appreciated! Thank you!

https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/driver-s-licence/is-the-international-driver-s-permit-idp-valid-in-canada/

If you are no longer in possession of a VALID foreign driving licence, the IDP is worthless. A photocopy is not a valid licence.

From your narrative, it appears that your foreign driver's licence was confiscated at the time that you were issued a Canadian G1 licence. Confiscated licences are returned to the issuing authority for cancellation.

Therefore, your IDP is not usable for driving in Canada. Please feel free to argue this with the first police officer that demands to see your licence.

 

[vensak]

https://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/transportation/driver-s-licence/is-the-international-driver-s-permit-idp-valid-in-canada/

If you are no longer in possession of a VALID foreign driving licence, the IDP is worthless. A photocopy is not a valid licence.

From your narrative, it appears that your foreign driver's licence was confiscated at the time that you were issued a Canadian G1 licence. Confiscated licences are returned to the issuing authority for cancellation.

Therefore, your IDP is not usable for driving in Canada. Please feel free to argue this with the first police officer that demands to see your licence.

IDP is not a photocopy. It is a very valid document issued by your country authorities as well. The only difference there is that:
1. it cannot be used in the country that has issued - there you need a local driving licence.
2. it is valid much shorter from the day it was issued (1 or 2 years depending under which convention was it issued).
3. it may or may not contain language of the country that has issued it. However there is list of languages in which it has to be written (that is why is it mostly a small booklet and not just a simple card).

Canada is using Geneva convention and as such are accepting IDP issued according to this convention.
Would there be no grace period in order to get Canadian driving licence for newcomers, it would be heavily unfair for all those that cannot simply exchange it. That is there is the time given during which you can use your IDP while getting local driving licence.

https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents/international-driving-permit

My real experience:
Nobody in the rental company was asking for my local driving licence. All I needed was a proper international driving licence (Geneva convention), to be able to rent the car for the driving test.
And my own (now expired) IDP states following:
this ID is valid in all countries of this convention (1949 Geneva) except of the country that has issued it. It is valid for 1 year from the day it was issued and it gives right to drive motor vehicles of all groups that are confirmed by this ID.
There is nothing stated that I have to have my local driving licence with me as well when using that valid IDP.

From Geneva convention (Canada signed this one, so it is bound by its rules):
Article 24

1. Each Contracting State shall allow any driver admitted to its territory who fulfils the conditions which are set out in Annex 8 and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an Association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in Annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.

2. A Contracting State may however require that any driver admitted to its territory shall carry an international driving permit conforming to the model contained in Annex 10, especially in the case of a driver coming from a country where a domestic driving permit is not required or where the domestic permit issued to him does not conform to the model contained in Annex 9.

3. The international driving permit shall, after the driver has given proof of his competence, be delivered by the competent authority of a Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by a duly authorised Association, and sealed or stamped by such authority or Association. The holder shall be entitled to drive in all Contracting States without further examination motor vehicles coming within the categories for which the permit has been issued.

4. The right to use the domestic as well as the international driving permit may be refused if it is evident that the conditions of issue are no longer fulfilled.

As you can see from point 1 and point 3 makes local driving licence which already is according to Geneva convention and IDP an equal document

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic#CHAPTER_V._DRIVERS_OF_MOTOR_VEHICLES_IN_INTERNATIONAL_TRAFFIC

 

[star.igg]

IDP is not a photocopy. It is a very valid document issued by your country authorities as well. The only difference there is that:
1. it cannot be used in the country that has issued - there you need a local driving licence.
2. it is valid much shorter from the day it was issued (1 or 2 years depending under which convention was it issued).
3. it may or may not contain language of the country that has issued it. However there is list of languages in which it has to be written (that is why is it mostly a small booklet and not just a simple card).

Canada is using Geneva convention and as such are accepting IDP issued according to this convention.
Would there be no grace period in order to get Canadian driving licence for newcomers, it would be heavily unfair for all those that cannot simply exchange it. That is there is the time given during which you can use your IDP while getting local driving licence.

https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents/international-driving-permit

My real experience:
Nobody in the rental company was asking for my local driving licence. All I needed was a proper international driving licence (Geneva convention), to be able to rent the car for the driving test.
And my own (now expired) IDP states following:
this ID is valid in all countries of this convention (1949 Geneva) except of the country that has issued it. It is valid for 1 year from the day it was issued and it gives right to drive motor vehicles of all groups that are confirmed by this ID.
There is nothing stated that I have to have my local driving licence with me as well when using that valid IDP.

From Geneva convention (Canada signed this one, so it is bound by its rules):
Article 24

1. Each Contracting State shall allow any driver admitted to its territory who fulfils the conditions which are set out in Annex 8 and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an Association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in Annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.

2. A Contracting State may however require that any driver admitted to its territory shall carry an international driving permit conforming to the model contained in Annex 10, especially in the case of a driver coming from a country where a domestic driving permit is not required or where the domestic permit issued to him does not conform to the model contained in Annex 9.

3. The international driving permit shall, after the driver has given proof of his competence, be delivered by the competent authority of a Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by a duly authorised Association, and sealed or stamped by such authority or Association. The holder shall be entitled to drive in all Contracting States without further examination motor vehicles coming within the categories for which the permit has been issued.

4. The right to use the domestic as well as the international driving permit may be refused if it is evident that the conditions of issue are no longer fulfilled.

As you can see from point 1 and point 3 makes local driving licence which already is according to Geneva convention and IDP an equal document

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Geneva_Convention_on_Road_Traffic#CHAPTER_V._DRIVERS_OF_MOTOR_VEHICLES_IN_INTERNATIONAL_TRAFFIC

Majority of rental car agents don't know the rule or just don't care. Technically, you are required to produce both your foreign license and your IDP to rent a car. You CANNOT rent a car on a learner's license let alone for driving tests. If you take time to read the agreement, it will clearly say this. But again, majority of rental car agents are underpaid and don't care about the company so they will let anything slide. Lol.
Source: I used to be a manager at one of the most popular car rental companies.

 

[vensak]

Majority of rental car agents don't know the rule or just don't care. Technically, you are required to produce both your foreign license and your IDP to rent a car. You CANNOT rent a car on a learner's license let alone for driving tests. If you take time to read the agreement, it will clearly say this. But again, majority of rental car agents are underpaid and don't care about the company so they will let anything slide. Lol.
Source: I used to be a manager at one of the most popular car rental companies.

Nope I was not using my learning driving licence. I was using at that time valid international driving licence. Please check again what I have written above.
While I can believe a lot, I honestly doubt that rental companies would omit to teach their employees very basics about driving licences, since the rental company is responsible to check if the person that is renting the car is entitled to drive it as well.

The treaty states clearly that holder of international driving permit is entitled to drive without additional driving tests. There is nothing written in the treaty about you being obliged to show both documents - your home DP and IDP.

3. The international driving permit shall, after the driver has given proof of his competence, be delivered by the competent authority of a Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by a duly authorised Association, and sealed or stamped by such authority or Association. The holder shall be entitled to drive in all Contracting States without further examination motor vehicles coming within the categories for which the permit has been issued.

If you are just a tourist you can use your IDP during your visit (up to 90 days). However if you have settled in the province, there is a legal period when you need to get a Canadian DP (from that province). The length of this grace period depends on each province law. (for example in Ontario it is 2 months).

 

[star.igg]

Nope I was not using my learning driving licence. I was using at that time valid international driving licence. Please check again what I have written above.
While I can believe a lot, I honestly doubt that rental companies would omit to teach their employees very basics about driving licences, since the rental company is responsible to check if the person that is renting the car is entitled to drive it as well.

The treaty states clearly that holder of international driving permit is entitled to drive without additional driving tests. There is nothing written in the treaty about you being obliged to show both documents - your home DP and IDP.

3. The international driving permit shall, after the driver has given proof of his competence, be delivered by the competent authority of a Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by a duly authorised Association, and sealed or stamped by such authority or Association. The holder shall be entitled to drive in all Contracting States without further examination motor vehicles coming within the categories for which the permit has been issued.

If you are just a tourist you can use your IDP during your visit (up to 90 days). However if you have settled in the province, there is a legal period when you need to get a Canadian DP (from that province). The length of this grace period depends on each province law. (for example in Ontario it is 2 months).

Rental companies don't omit to teach but rental agents don't care. I knew the rule clearly but I didn't care either because any foreigner trying to rent a car would 100% buy insurance and that's all rental agents care about. Lol. I once rented a car to a guy visiting from Germany who lost his license while flying. I punched in his National Identity Card number as DL and made him understand that if you get pulled over, you are on your own. Lol. The only reason was he was renting for 3 weeks and that's a 8-900 bucks insurance sale which I simply cannot afford to lose so I could have cared less about car rental company's policy. Hahaha. It clearly says on the rental agreement you can't use vehicle for driving tests but try handing a 100 dollar bill to the rental agent and he will close his eyes, I mean if your lucky to find someone like me. Hahaha.

Also, if your license is in English, you don't even need an IDP for 3 months period and in some cases up to 1 year for students from certain countries I think.

 

[vensak]

Rental companies don't omit to teach but rental agents don't care. I knew the rule clearly but I didn't care either because any foreigner trying to rent a car would 100% buy insurance and that's all rental agents care about. Lol. I once rented a car to a guy visiting from Germany who lost his license while flying. I punched in his National Identity Card number as DL and made him understand that if you get pulled over, you are on your own. Lol. The only reason was he was renting for 3 weeks and that's a 8-900 bucks insurance sale which I simply cannot afford to lose so I could have cared less about car rental company's policy. Hahaha. It clearly says on the rental agreement you can't use vehicle for driving tests but try handing a 100 dollar bill to the rental agent and he will close his eyes, I mean if your lucky to find someone like me. Hahaha.

Also, if your license is in English, you don't even need an IDP for 3 months period and in some cases up to 1 year for students from certain countries I think.

Now I understand where you are coming from.

You were talking about internal rules that some rental companies have setup when renting a car. They can have such rule only because the contract is about renting a car not preventing you to drive a car in general.
It is easy to see where that wrong understanding of Geneva convention comes in. Just because IDP uses a different format than the local DP and of course prescribed languages, it does not make it a less valid document. And by no means is it just a copy or a simple translation of your local driving licence that is useless by itself.
If one of the purposes of IDP was give a valid DP document if your country was not issuing driving licences. Which is again written in the very same treaty. So in that case you would not even be able to show 2 DP documents.

By that logic they should be also asking for a local ID card on the top of presenting your passport, as your passport is among other things also translation if your local ID card into several languages. (it would be especially fun to observe all USA, Canada or UK citizens in such case, as they do not have any prescribed local ID).

In the very same treaty there is also a written duty to have a register of all local and international driving licences issued. And of course only designated organisations can issue an IDP after it was proven, that driving test was taken.

If Canadian official institutions do require both DP, then they are actually in violation with Geneva Convention.

 

[Buletruck]

From the website:

A valid IDP does not allow you to drive if you are not carrying your original country’s valid driver’s license and passport at the same time.

https://internationaldriversassociation.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg92q7_7t5QIVFiCtBh1uEQokEAAYASAAEgJvBPD_BwE

An IDP does not allow you to drive if you do not have the license it was issued against in your possession. You don’t have that any more, so you can’t drive.

 

[star.igg]

Now I understand where you are coming from.

You were talking about internal rules that some rental companies have setup when renting a car. They can have such rule only because the contract is about renting a car not preventing you to drive a car in general.
It is easy to see where that wrong understanding of Geneva convention comes in. Just because IDP uses a different format than the local DP and of course prescribed languages, it does not make it a less valid document. And by no means is it just a copy or a simple translation of your local driving licence that is useless by itself.
If one of the purposes of IDP was give a valid DP document if your country was not issuing driving licences. Which is again written in the very same treaty. So in that case you would not even be able to show 2 DP documents.

By that logic they should be also asking for a local ID card on the top of presenting your passport, as your passport is among other things also translation if your local ID card into several languages. (it would be especially fun to observe all USA, Canada or UK citizens in such case, as they do not have any prescribed local ID).

In the very same treaty there is also a written duty to have a register of all local and international driving licences issued. And of course only designated organisations can issue an IDP after it was proven, that driving test was taken.

If Canadian official institutions do require both DP, then they are actually in violation with Geneva Convention.

Probably. IDP is a booklet with photo pasted on it which increases the chances of fraud.

From the website:



https://internationaldriversassociation.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg92q7_7t5QIVFiCtBh1uEQokEAAYASAAEgJvBPD_BwE

An IDP does not allow you to drive if you do not have the license it was issued against in your possession. You don’t have that any more, so you can’t drive.

Exactly! At car rental they don't care for reasons I had already mentioned but just because they let it slide doesn't mean that's the rule. If you end up with a diligent guy, they will refuse you rental if your IDP is not accompanied by the DL against which it was issued. Also, some European passports don't have a physical address which creates the need to verify the national identity card, even cops ask for it from foreigners.

 

[zardoz]

Probably. IDP is a booklet with photo pasted on it which increases the chances of fraud.

Exactly! At car rental they don't care for reasons I had already mentioned but just because they let it slide doesn't mean that's the rule. If you end up with a diligent guy, they will refuse you rental if your IDP is not accompanied by the DL against which it was issued. Also, some European passports don't have a physical address which creates the need to verify the national identity card, even cops ask for it from foreigners.

More importantly, when pulled over by a police officer who demands to see the licence, while not having the real DL against which the IDP was issued, it's not going to end well. They don't care about the exact wording of the Geneva Convention or the possible legal interpretations. An IDP is easily forged as it's not designed to be a secure document.

https://www.caa.ca/international-driving-permit/

"An IDP is a document which, when accompanied by a valid driver’s license, enables a person to drive vehicles for tourism purposes in many foreign countries."

Am I still be able to drive my car alone with my Learner’s license and International driver’s permit and with a photo copy of my foreign driver’s license??

A photocopy of the original driver's licence is not valid.