You're missing the point. India alone accounts for over 1/3rds of sham marriages (by some IRCC estimates). No one is arguing that other countries do not have fake marriage issues. This thread is simply asking if this practice still continues in large numbers from India given that most who are interested in coming to Canada can simply choose the student immigration stream now.
Does India still have a high number of marriages of convenience?
- Thread starter HopefulLegend
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I don't really know what you're getting at or actually trying to find out or what exactly the 'student' numbers changes from this perspective (if it was an issue, presumably some/many of the students or former students could enter into such marriages).
Anyway my short point: at least one of the articles lists other countries that are also an issue. I mention this because it's important to keep in mind: India represents a fairly large percentage of Canadian immigration. For this reason, issues with Indian applications will occupy a more central part of government thinking about risks to the immigration system as a whole, in a way that issues with applications from eg Botswana will not (Botswana probably not even in top 25 source countries). It shouldn't be over-interpreted; the truth is that it's to some degree just a question of numbers. And of course it's also a fact that there is more economic incentive from relatively poorer countries to find some way around the rules like sham marriages - India is not at all unique in that respect, again, numbers.
There is a related issue that arranged marriages are more common in India (and Pakistan and some other countries). That makes those marriages a bit harder to evaluate in terms of 'genuineness' (compared to say typical relationships in Canada where living together for sometime before marriage is common). That's why there is more emphasis for applicants with such marriages on fully respecting the local and appropriate customs as well as any inconsistencies in files that indicate something out of ordinary. There will always be some tension/contradiction because of that.
Personally I attach very little significance to that estimate of 'up to' [some number] possibly being sham marriages. Clearly there was an estimate with a range, and if that number was eg from 5% to 30% (completely made up number by me), that would look very different.
An additional point on this: I am guessing but I think it's highly significant that this 'report' or whatever it is was authored by CBSA. I bet there is a deep and huge story about the bureaucratic history and fight behind this report. Why was it written at all? Not to mention that it's relatively old.
CBSA is NOT the lead agency on immigration. It's a security and enforcement agency primarily.
It's in the nature of security/enforcement agencies - and particularly the divisions that deal with any particular issue - to draw attention to and write about the really important threat (that they deal with and need budget for) and the threat to integrity of the entire system and country.
Traffic enforcement division doesn't write reports saying "speeding's not so bad and injuries are acceptable." (Repeat for just about every single division responsible for some area...). [Note I'm joking in that obviously CBSA doesn't have a traffic enforcement division.]
So: this report and the context and how IRCC sees the issue (eg responded to the report) is way more important than the numbers in the report.
I'm willing to bet there are similar reports about other 'grave threats' that were fashionable or in the news at some point, like internet dating.
I assure: IRCC is very aware that there is a trade-off between implementing extremely strict measures to combat [whatever kind of immigration fraud is an issue today] and facilitating valid immigration to meet targets and goals of the government. They have a duty under law to implement measures to detect and minimize immigration fraud - but 'minimize' does not mean to zero at the cost of making immigration impossible or unduly onerous.
Anyway, just my thoughts. I don't think this report is worth paying attention to esp since so old. It's an issue, India top of the list because India is top of the list for immigration, IRCC has ways of dealing with it (as they have since forever), and they'll adjust how they approach and methods of detection from time to time in line with the priorities of the government of the day.
CBSA is NOT the lead agency on immigration. It's a security and enforcement agency primarily.
It's in the nature of security/enforcement agencies - and particularly the divisions that deal with any particular issue - to draw attention to and write about the really important threat (that they deal with and need budget for) and the threat to integrity of the entire system and country.
Traffic enforcement division doesn't write reports saying "speeding's not so bad and injuries are acceptable." (Repeat for just about every single division responsible for some area...). [Note I'm joking in that obviously CBSA doesn't have a traffic enforcement division.]
So: this report and the context and how IRCC sees the issue (eg responded to the report) is way more important than the numbers in the report.
I'm willing to bet there are similar reports about other 'grave threats' that were fashionable or in the news at some point, like internet dating.
I assure: IRCC is very aware that there is a trade-off between implementing extremely strict measures to combat [whatever kind of immigration fraud is an issue today] and facilitating valid immigration to meet targets and goals of the government. They have a duty under law to implement measures to detect and minimize immigration fraud - but 'minimize' does not mean to zero at the cost of making immigration impossible or unduly onerous.
Anyway, just my thoughts. I don't think this report is worth paying attention to esp since so old. It's an issue, India top of the list because India is top of the list for immigration, IRCC has ways of dealing with it (as they have since forever), and they'll adjust how they approach and methods of detection from time to time in line with the priorities of the government of the day.
How would this forum have the answers to your questions? If IRCC releases statistics about MOC’s then that would be your best bet to get that information. Not a forum where people come for genuine help.
Yes still common. One of the reasons why international students who get married after getting their study permit or while in the middle of their studies often have difficulty get a visa/permit for their spouses to join them soon after marriage if they have no dating history. Unfortunately there are other ways to commit immigration fraud through fake arranged marriages other than spousal sponsorship. There are smart women and men sought out and an arrangement is made that if they get a study permit to study in Canada their fees will be paid for if they enter into a marriage with the man/woman and then apply for an SOWP. They will then separate while in Canada and then both apply for PR separately.
There was a point in time when coming to Canada through the student stream wasn't a popular option for Indians, but now it's the primary vehicle through which they immigrate. Now, most Indians gain PR through the student/work stream. I brought that up because a large number of these articles talking about the high volume of marriage fraud coming out of India coincides with that timeline when student immigration was extremely low out of India. I'm also a part of the South Asian Indian community within Canada, so I have a bit of an idea on this matter. The reason behind my curiosity simply stems from wanting to know whether spousal immigration fraud has gone down with student immigration having increased exponentially since the time those articles were written.
TLDR: I'm wondering if the increased student immigration has put a downward pressure on fraudulent family based marriage spousal applications. Most Indian immigrants now come through as students, and then eventually gain their PR this way.
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It's so unfortunate that these fraudulent activities take place. It makes the system harder for all the legitimate cases eh
I have no idea about the issue discussed here but I do find it interesting that India accounts for such a large proportion of spousal sponsorships. Of the 54775 permanent residents admitted to Canada via spousal sponsorship in 2019, 10855 (19.8%) were from India. Compared with 5040 (9.2%) from China, 4960 (9%) from the USA, 1905 (3.4%) from the UK, and 1015 (1.9%) from Australia.
I didn't know so many Canadians were getting married to people in India.
The data above is from this data set: https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/f7e5498e-0ad8-4417-85c9-9b8aff9b9eda/resource/0f1e6cce-a2e3-4ded-92ca-47d3c7e55128
I didn't know so many Canadians were getting married to people in India.
The data above is from this data set: https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/f7e5498e-0ad8-4417-85c9-9b8aff9b9eda/resource/0f1e6cce-a2e3-4ded-92ca-47d3c7e55128
Well, I think those numbers are a bit different as it likely includes all students, spouses, etc. But even when compared to a country like China, India is huge.
This is by category, I was looking at the "Sponsored Spouse or Partner" row.
I think it's misleading a bit to look at it this way - the more simple fact is that India accounts for about a quarter of overall immigration:
https://canadaimmigrants.com/canada-immigrants-by-source-country-2019/
Ie it's not that India is a big source country for spousal sponsorship but immigration to Canada overall.
Obviously spousal sponsorships are a part of that total but only about 1/8th of the total immigration from India.*
To me it's not at all surprising - immigration from one country will come with some spousal sponsorship.
Ah, I see. I don't know the answer to that nor have I seen any data about whether it's changed much. As another poster wrote, it's not like the issue has disappeared or is not a problem - but that doesn't say anything about the trend.
I guess I'd say that you can't assume that the reason it was prominent or reported at the time is because it was much worse then than now; there's a political / media landscape that doesn't necessarily reflect some objective underlying facts or trends (or might reflect something going on but exaggerate out of all proportion, or at other times completely ignore certain issues).
And to some degree India's going to be prominent in such reports/articles/studies just because India's the largest single-country source of immigrants to Canada.
Sorry, this probably doesn't help respond to your question. I could speculate about whether the shift to studies as a means-of-entry has changed it but it'd be just that, speculation.
Makes sense. It's all just speculation as only the IRCC has the official numbers. That's a good point though, I was making the correlation that a lack of news reporting on this topic means that the practice has reduced. When those articles were written, we were under the Harper administration, so it was no doubt an entirely different political landscape.
There is still quite a large number of immigrants coming via spousal sponsorship and many coming through economic immigration. Given the difficulty immigrating to the US many high skilled workers immigrate to Canada first. Have my own opinions on how some of Canadian policies need to change so that people living and working in Canada should be paying Canadian, not US, taxes first but that’s another conversation. Given the ever increasing amount of highly educated Indians I would expect the number of economic immigrants arriving from India to keep increasing. There is a very large Indian expat community in Canada and immigration to the UK and Australia tends to be more difficult so not surprising that Canada is a popular option plus the majority of the country speaks English. UK has also becomes less desired after Brexit in terms of an immigration destination. There will always be marriage and general immigration fraud. Arranged marriages make it difficult to identify all immigration fraud and marriages of convenience and Canada does not like to appear to be questioning people’s cultural norms. Would add that there are also many partners that are completely unaware that they are being defrauded and discover that getting their spouse deported or charged is not easy or under their control. Spouses sponsoring people should listen to concerns of their friends and family if there are warning signs.