Do I must meet 730 days stay in Canada requirement when applying for PR card renewal in my first 5 years?

[qqtina]

Hi all, I already have a PR card and need to renew it for the first time since it expires in 9 months. Currently, I only stayed in Canada for one and a half year, still a half year to go to meet the 730 days requirement. I am in Canada now. My questions are:

1. If I apply for card renewal now, will my application get approved since I will be possible to meet the 730 days requiement before my PR card expires?
2. I stayed few years holding work permit before I became the PR, would my days before landing counted into the 730 days?

Thanks very much for help!

 

[dpenabill]

Hi all, I already have a PR card and need to renew it for the first time since it expires in 9 months. Currently, I only stayed in Canada for one and a half year, still a half year to go to meet the 730 days requirement. I am in Canada now. My questions are:

1. If I apply for card renewal now, will my application get approved since I will be possible to meet the 730 days requiement before my PR card expires?
2. I stayed few years holding work permit before I became the PR, would my days before landing counted into the 730 days?

OVERALL:

If NOT outside Canada more than 1095 days since date of landing, the PR meets the 730 days/5 years requirement, the Residency Obligation. This meets the eligibility requirements for a PR card application. OK to apply.

Days in Canada prior to the date of landing do NOT count toward meeting the RO. (They can count toward meeting citizenship requirements, if within five years of citizenship application).

Longer Explanation and Further Observations:

It is OK to make an application for a new PR card as long as the PR is currently complying with the PR Residency Obligation. Easy way to calculate RO compliance is to do a draft of the application for a PR card and the PR is in compliance if the total number of days outside Canada, as automatically totaled by the interactive PDF form, shows fewer than 1095 days outside Canada (once the travel history is fully completed for question 5.5).

If prior to the fifth year anniversary of landing the PR has not been outside Canada more than 1095 days, it is not just possible to meet the RO (730 days/5 years), the PR is meeting the RO. So, again, it would be OK to make a PR card application (depending on precise calculation, however, this may depend on the PR continuing to remain in Canada, and remain long enough that they will still be in RO compliance for however long they might go outside Canada).

Remember, for purposes of calculating RO compliance, the date the PR card expires does not matter. After the fifth year anniversary of landing, the calculation is always based on the previous five years as of any day, every day. New PR card does not restart the clock.

Note Re Waiting To Apply for PR card After Reaching 730 days In Canada:

Many in this forum recommend waiting to apply until after actually reaching the 730 days IN Canada threshold. As a general proposition for what is for-sure safe, I largely agree. There are a couple considerations in play regarding this:

-- waiting to reach the 730 day threshold essentially eliminates the risk of breaching the RO if the PR needs to leave Canada while the PR card application is pending​

-- waiting to reach the 730 day threshold may be a significant factor in reducing the risk the application is subject to elevated scrutiny and non-routine processing, which could delay getting a new PR card​

Whether the application sails through the process smoothly will depend on many other factors, with the extent to which it is apparent the PR is currently settled and living permanently in Canada, or not, likely to be one of the biggest factors.

 

[qqtina]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer! So in short, I do not need to wait till 730 days RO being completed to apply for a card renewal. But even holding a new PR card, if next time I land Canada without meeting RO (stay in Canada for 730 days in the previous 5 years of the landing time), my PR will still be cancelled. Is the understanding correct?

 

[canuck78]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer! So in short, I do not need to wait till 730 days RO being completed to apply for a card renewal. But even holding a new PR card, if next time I land Canada without meeting RO (stay in Canada for 730 days in the previous 5 years of the landing time), my PR will still be cancelled. Is the understanding correct?

When did you land and how many days have you spent in Canada since landing? Having a better idea of the dates will allow people to provide better information. You don’t need to wait to apply to renew your PR card as long as you are compliant with your RO and will continue to be compliant with your RO. That would mean that you are on track to meet your RO by the end of the 5 year period since landing in Canada. If you are on track to just meet the 730 days without much of a buffer period you could end up with longer processing time. Can you guarantee that you will not have to leave Canada until you get the new PR card? If you apply and then have to leave Canada and that leads to not meeting your RO that would be problematic. You could withdraw your application but that could highlight to IRCC that you weren’t complaint with your RO. Is there a reason you want to apply for PR card renewal early?

If you ever enter Canada without meeting your RO you risk being reported for not meeting your RO. You will have the opportunity to appeal you do not lose your RO right away.

 

[dpenabill]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer! So in short, I do not need to wait till 730 days RO being completed to apply for a card renewal. But even holding a new PR card, if next time I land Canada without meeting RO (stay in Canada for 730 days in the previous 5 years of the landing time), my PR will still be cancelled. Is the understanding correct?

By the time a PR has been issued a new, second PR card, they are almost certainly past the five year anniversary of the day they landed (if not yet, they will be soon). And what then matters, what is needed to meet the Residency Obligation, is that they have been IN Canada for 730 days within the previous five years. Date of landing is no longer relevant.

So, if you have been issued a new PR card, and assuming it has been five years plus since the date you landed, if the next time you are returning to Canada from abroad you are questioned about RO compliance, the calculation of compliance will be based on days IN Canada within the five years preceding that day, that day there at the Port-of-Entry. While PRs carrying new PR cards are rarely questioned about RO compliance, they can be, including random screening, or when there is a flag, an "alert" in their GCMS file (which could be there following the issuance of a new card if there are concerns about continuing compliance with the RO).

 

[qqtina]

By the time a PR has been issued a new, second PR card, they are almost certainly past the five year anniversary of the day they landed (if not yet, they will be soon). And what then matters, what is needed to meet the Residency Obligation, is that they have been IN Canada for 730 days within the previous five years. Date of landing is no longer relevant.

So, if you have been issued a new PR card, and assuming it has been five years plus since the date you landed, if the next time you are returning to Canada from abroad you are questioned about RO compliance, the calculation of compliance will be based on days IN Canada within the five years preceding that day, that day there at the Port-of-Entry. While PRs carrying new PR cards are rarely questioned about RO compliance, they can be, including random screening, or when there is a flag, an "alert" in their GCMS file (which could be there following the issuance of a new card if there are concerns about continuing compliance with the RO).

Thanks dpenabill, so my first PR card is going to expire in Oct 2024, I have stayed in Canada for one and a half year before Apr 2021. Since we can apply for renewal 9 months before card expiration date, so I plan to do it at earliest because I may need to travel (but I am not meeting the 730 days RO when I apply for renewal). So my question is, will the second PR card be approved and issued to me after my application (since it will be possible for me to meet the 730 days requirement), or my application will be rejected and have to re-apply after I meet the 730 days requirement? I know it is a tricky situation, any tips would be appreciated. Really appreciate your help

 

[Besram]

Thanks dpenabill, so my first PR card is going to expire in Oct 2024, I have stayed in Canada for one and a half year before Apr 2021. Since we can apply for renewal 9 months before card expiration date, so I plan to do it at earliest because I may need to travel (but I am not meeting the 730 days RO when I apply for renewal). So my question is, will the second PR card be approved and issued to me after my application (since it will be possible for me to meet the 730 days requirement), or my application will be rejected and have to re-apply after I meet the 730 days requirement? I know it is a tricky situation, any tips would be appreciated. Really appreciate your help

When did you land in Canada as a PR?

 

[qqtina]

When did you land in Canada as a PR?

I landed in Oct 2019, left Canada in Apr 2021, now back on Feb 2024

 

[dpenabill]

I landed in Oct 2019, left Canada in Apr 2021, now back on Feb 2024

Better-to-wait fits your scenario. For practical reasons, including the likelihood of non-routine processing resulting in a lengthy processing timeline if you apply sooner than later.

That said, there will remain a significant risk of non-routine processing even if you wait longer to make the PR card application given the extent to which you not only are currently cutting-it-close (living outside Canada more than IN Canada, and at best only returning to Canada very recently after a lengthy absence) but will be cutting-it-close for the next two years (will explain below, even though this should be readily apparent).

Nonetheless, at the least, it would be prudent to wait until you have clearly gotten settled here and you are apparently PERMANENTLY living here now. Appearances can, and often will influence how things go. If it appears you came to Canada perhaps just long enough to get a new PR card, being referred to Secondary Review (which can take many months, sometimes nearly a year or so) would not be a surprise.

For Clarification:

. . . so my first PR card is going to expire in Oct 2024 . . .

The PR card's expiration date ONLY matters for two things:

-- After the PR card expires a PR cannot board a flight outside Canada that is heading to Canada (unless they get a PR Travel Document or a new PR card)​

-- an application for a new PR card is not timely (and will be returned) if it is made more than nine months prior to the date the PR card expires​

The day the PR card expires is NOT relevant when calculating if the PR meets the Residency Obligation. RO compliance is what matters.

So, to be clear:

To meet the eligibility requirements for a PR card application, the PR should be in compliance with the Residency Obligation on the date the application is made. ​

​

For purposes of calculating RO compliance, the date the PR card is issued does NOT matter. It is NOT relevant.​

​

Likewise, for purposes of calculating RO compliance, the date the PR card will expire does NOT matter. It is NOT relevant.​

​

The interactive PDF form for making a PR card application is a good tool for calculating RO compliance based on entering a COMPLETE and ACCURATE travel history in question 5.5. This can be used for hypothetical future scenarios. As long as the total number of days outside Canada is not more than 1095 days, when the travel history is completely and accurately filled in, the PR is in compliance with the RO.​

​

Prior to the fifth year anniversary of the date the PR landed (again, this is NOT based on date the PR card was issued or when it expires), a PR is in RO compliance as long as they have not been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since landing . . . even if they have not yet been IN Canada 730 days.​

. . . Since we can apply for renewal 9 months before card expiration date, so I plan to do it at earliest because I may need to travel (but I am not meeting the 730 days RO when I apply for renewal).

You say "but I am not meeting the 730 days RO when I apply for renewal" even though it appears you actually are meeting the RO, in that you have not been outside Canada more than 1095 days since the date you landed.

Again, let's be clear, here, if you are not meeting the RO, there is NO question, NO doubt, that it is NOT a good idea to make a PR card application. Not a good idea to leave Canada either. Best to do neither, to not make a PR card application and not leave Canada, UNLESS and UNTIL you are in compliance with the RO, and even then be sure to NOT go outside Canada for so long that you fail to continue meeting the RO.

However, it appears you do currently meet the RO. So that is not an issue, at least so long as you stay in Canada enough to continue meeting the RO.

Reminder: During the first five years after landing, a PR does NOT need to be in Canada 730 days to be in compliance with the RO as long as the PR has not been outside Canada more than 1095 days during this time. As long as the PR is in compliance with the RO, it is OK to make a PR card application.

Just because it would be OK to make a PR card application (there is no risk doing this will trigger inadmissibility proceedings) does not answer the WHEN to do it question. This is a far more complicated question for which there is no for-sure answer and any answer depends a lot on the facts and circumstances in the individual case.

I cannot offer much about when it is best to make the application except the obvious, do not apply unless and not until being in RO compliance, and otherwise to reiterate the conventional wisdom in this forum, that waiting long enough to apply based on days actually present in Canada is the safe approach, and to note that an application for a new PR card shortly after arriving in Canada after an absence of years will be at significantly higher risk for substantive non-routine processing resulting in lengthy delays in actually getting a new PR card. As I said, given your very recent return to Canada (and especially so if you are not here yet but planning to come), this fits a better-to-wait scenario.

Explanation Re Cutting-it-Close Continuing For Two Years:

You may already understand this. But many have the mistaken idea that a new PR card would restart the RO calculation clock. If you understand that the counting of days IN Canada does not start over when a new PR card is issued, and understand how the arithmetic works, no need to read this explanation.

How the arithmetic works, just as an example, is that if you STAY in Canada all of 2025, the number of days you have credit for toward meeting the RO will not change, it will stay the same, because for every day you are here in 2025 the corresponding day back in 2020 will no longer count.

You are currently at the maximum credit toward RO compliance you will have for the next two years. Any absences in the meantime will reduce how many days credit you have. You do not have much of a margin to work with, estimating it to be around 90 to 100 days, or not much more at most.

Right now you have credit for all days IN Canada since landing, plus all days left on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary of landing in October 2024. So between now and that anniversary, your total RO credit will remain the same, but ONLY if you STAY in Canada. If you leave, that margin will decrease by however many days you are outside Canada.

If, just as an example, if on the fifth year anniversary of your landing date, in October, you have a total of 820 days credit toward RO compliance, that margin will NOT increase until sometime in April 2026. If you go outside Canada between now and then, before April 2026, the total days credit you will have will decrease by however many days you are outside Canada.

 

[qqtina]

Better-to-wait fits your scenario. For practical reasons, including the likelihood of non-routine processing resulting in a lengthy processing timeline if you apply sooner than later.

That said, there will remain a significant risk of non-routine processing even if you wait longer to make the PR card application given the extent to which you not only are currently cutting-it-close (living outside Canada more than IN Canada, and at best only returning to Canada very recently after a lengthy absence) but will be cutting-it-close for the next two years (will explain below, even though this should be readily apparent).

Nonetheless, at the least, it would be prudent to wait until you have clearly gotten settled here and you are apparently PERMANENTLY living here now. Appearances can, and often will influence how things go. If it appears you came to Canada perhaps just long enough to get a new PR card, being referred to Secondary Review (which can take many months, sometimes nearly a year or so) would not be a surprise.

For Clarification:



The PR card's expiration date ONLY matters for two things:

-- After the PR card expires a PR cannot board a flight outside Canada that is heading to Canada (unless they get a PR Travel Document or a new PR card)​

-- an application for a new PR card is not timely (and will be returned) if it is made more than nine months prior to the date the PR card expires​

The day the PR card expires is NOT relevant when calculating if the PR meets the Residency Obligation. RO compliance is what matters.

So, to be clear:

To meet the eligibility requirements for a PR card application, the PR should be in compliance with the Residency Obligation on the date the application is made. ​

​

For purposes of calculating RO compliance, the date the PR card is issued does NOT matter. It is NOT relevant.​

​

Likewise, for purposes of calculating RO compliance, the date the PR card will expire does NOT matter. It is NOT relevant.​

​

The interactive PDF form for making a PR card application is a good tool for calculating RO compliance based on entering a COMPLETE and ACCURATE travel history in question 5.5. This can be used for hypothetical future scenarios. As long as the total number of days outside Canada is not more than 1095 days, when the travel history is completely and accurately filled in, the PR is in compliance with the RO.​

​

Prior to the fifth year anniversary of the date the PR landed (again, this is NOT based on date the PR card was issued or when it expires), a PR is in RO compliance as long as they have not been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since landing . . . even if they have not yet been IN Canada 730 days.​

You say "but I am not meeting the 730 days RO when I apply for renewal" even though it appears you actually are meeting the RO, in that you have not been outside Canada more than 1095 days since the date you landed.

Again, let's be clear, here, if you are not meeting the RO, there is NO question, NO doubt, that it is NOT a good idea to make a PR card application. Not a good idea to leave Canada either. Best to do neither, to not make a PR card application and not leave Canada, UNLESS and UNTIL you are in compliance with the RO, and even then be sure to NOT go outside Canada for so long that you fail to continue meeting the RO.

However, it appears you do currently meet the RO. So that is not an issue, at least so long as you stay in Canada enough to continue meeting the RO.

Reminder: During the first five years after landing, a PR does NOT need to be in Canada 730 days to be in compliance with the RO as long as the PR has not been outside Canada more than 1095 days during this time. As long as the PR is in compliance with the RO, it is OK to make a PR card application.

Just because it would be OK to make a PR card application (there is no risk doing this will trigger inadmissibility proceedings) does not answer the WHEN to do it question. This is a far more complicated question for which there is no for-sure answer and any answer depends a lot on the facts and circumstances in the individual case.

I cannot offer much about when it is best to make the application except the obvious, do not apply unless and not until being in RO compliance, and otherwise to reiterate the conventional wisdom in this forum, that waiting long enough to apply based on days actually present in Canada is the safe approach, and to note that an application for a new PR card shortly after arriving in Canada after an absence of years will be at significantly higher risk for substantive non-routine processing resulting in lengthy delays in actually getting a new PR card. As I said, given your very recent return to Canada (and especially so if you are not here yet but planning to come), this fits a better-to-wait scenario.

Explanation Re Cutting-it-Close Continuing For Two Years:

You may already understand this. But many have the mistaken idea that a new PR card would restart the RO calculation clock. If you understand that the counting of days IN Canada does not start over when a new PR card is issued, and understand how the arithmetic works, no need to read this explanation.

How the arithmetic works, just as an example, is that if you STAY in Canada all of 2025, the number of days you have credit for toward meeting the RO will not change, it will stay the same, because for every day you are here in 2025 the corresponding day back in 2020 will no longer count.

You are currently at the maximum credit toward RO compliance you will have for the next two years. Any absences in the meantime will reduce how many days credit you have. You do not have much of a margin to work with, estimating it to be around 90 to 100 days, or not much more at most.

Right now you have credit for all days IN Canada since landing, plus all days left on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary of landing in October 2024. So between now and that anniversary, your total RO credit will remain the same, but ONLY if you STAY in Canada. If you leave, that margin will decrease by however many days you are outside Canada.

If, just as an example, if on the fifth year anniversary of your landing date, in October, you have a total of 820 days credit toward RO compliance, that margin will NOT increase until sometime in April 2026. If you go outside Canada between now and then, before April 2026, the total days credit you will have will decrease by however many days you are outside Canada.

Thanks a lot for the detailed information and explanation!