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Divorce Question

CanadianJeepGuy

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Jun 24, 2012
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
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benclark said:
1. She doesn't know about this website in the slightest, but I understand your point.
2. Yes and no, stupid Canada Post didn't deliver the stuff that CIC sent me for over a year and having read on the CIC website that calling about your case would delay it I never called. It was only when we tried to sort something else out that CIC informed us that Canada Post were returning our mail. Some idiot at the local office I guess totally screwing up. Right now I've just had to get a 2nd medical and I believe that once I send that in with my kids birth certificates tomorrow and their Proof of Canadian Citizenships once they come back then that should be the last information they need.

Leon sadly while I spent nearly a decade working in Security at a large International Airport in the UK ultimately in charge of the deployment of ~200 guards a day my education in the UK stopped at College which here in Canada counts for little more than the old Grade 13, needless to say my resume therefore looks rather unimpressive when one of the biggest things that most big employers in my area seem to focus on is education rather than skill sets or experience so currently I'm stuck working on a farm, the only full time employment in my area (rural Ontario). I have been tempted to seek an apprenticeship however somewhere in the construction industry but would that count as a "skilled" job? Like you say best interests of the children may work for the H&C grounds but that seems to focus more on refugees than my situation, at the end of the day though what I want is what's best for our kids which is to have both their parents available to them, be it together or not.
Couple of things. Canada Post does not hold people's mail for a year unless you pay for that service. In all likelihood CIC did not send you anything as is their pathology to not follow through with things.

Secondly with your background you could apply for security at whatever airport you are closest to. Once you are a PR you could also apply to be a cop if that's your thing. If not look at taking By-Law enforcement at a community college or even apply for a job at stupid Canada Post.
 

on-hold

Champion Member
Feb 6, 2010
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Though this is off-topic, it really seems to be your habit to blame your wife's reaction to problems that you caused, and to excuse your own behaviour. For your initial infidelity, don't mention 'depression' since that's a clinical condition that doesn't develop immediately; some combination of 'bored' or 'lonely' or 'thought I could get away with it' is probably a more accurate description. Your wife stopped trusting you, with cause, and later suspected you of fooling around again; somehow you thought it would be a good idea to share this with the woman she suspected you of doing this with (a form of emotional infidelity, showing that this new woman meant enough to you to share marriage secrets). You also blame Canada Post, Canada's qualification system, and probably a few other things I missed.

I'm not sure what you mean by your wife 'compartmentalizing' things -- it sounds like you mean 'not forgetting what I did'. I guess basically you have to decide if being close to your children is worth living with someone who doesn't trust you. I don't know any married men who have become close friends with women after getting married, I certainly haven't; friends at work, sometimes. My wife, who I've never cheated on, wouldn't put up with it if I did that; and yours seems to feel that you aren't good at establishing boundaries.

As for immigration issues surrounding divorce, you will find that international law is quite merciless, not even getting into the cost of travel. Families are separated by visa regulations every day, don't see each other for years, or are sundered completely. I would suggest that you tell your wife that you remain together while your PR is in process, work on the marriage, and if it fails, then you can be divorced at the soonest legal point where it won't endanger your status and you can be a positive presence in your kids' lives.
 

benclark

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Jan 31, 2011
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No according to CIC, Canada Post kept returning it undeliverable despite us living at the same address that CIC has on record.

On-hold, fine call it 'lonely' if that makes you happy, it doesn't change how I felt, I'm not excusing my behaviour, never have, indeed I admit what happened and realised my mistake. After 5 years you'd think there would be some level of trust in our marriage especially after having 2 further children and choosing to emigrate together. My wife shares marriage secrets all the time with her friends, the second I come to share the same with my friends and I'm the bad person, no offence but how is a dual standard fair?

Canada Post meanwhile if the CIC are telling the truth did return our mail undeliverable, how is that blaming them? I'm merely accepting CIC's report of events that led to the delay. I'm also not blaming Canada's qualification system, I wish that my education beyond school counted for more than what Canada sees as school but it doesn't, which sadly does affect my employment opportunities in this increasingly computerised society where a computer program analyses your resume before a person even sees it. I know from working at the airport that when I first started there compared to when I left the quality of people we were hiring had fallen and this was primarily due to a system whereby we no longer recruited personnel, personally, instead leaving a large portion of the hiring to a computerised system.

Compartmentalization meanwhile means that rather than dealing with an issue when it arises, this doesn't have to be between me and her, it can be something small and trivial, my wife puts it in a box to deal with later but never does, she hides from things rather than dealing with them before they become a problem and once they have she doesn't know what to do so puts them back in a box to again "deal with later".

I've always been better friends with women than men, don't ask me why but I find them easier to get on with yet by the same token I've always been terrible at finding the courage to ask them out - not an issue now that I'm married and like I said while I did make a mistake I realised and accepted the error in judgement I made and it's not something I intend to repeat. I have no trouble with boundaries, the problem was it seems of nervousness and jealousy, nervous that I was going to repeat what happened 5 years ago, and jealous that someone who happened to be female was asking me to help her out fitting an AC unit in her home.

I know what I did was unforgivable but there surely has to be a point in your life where the past becomes the past, where you try to move forwards and where you try to realise that person you are with is still with you for a reason. I do love her, I've given up a lot more than you'll ever know to be with her and I continue to do so on a daily basis just to try and keep her happy, because that's all I want to see. I miss my wife smiling and being happy. I think your last sentence sums up what is probably going to happen sadly, I say sadly as I don't think my wife is giving us much hope.

CanadianJeepGuy, with Cop you actually hit the nail on the head, once I get my PR I want to sign up and I also want to join the Canadian Air Force Reserve. I always wanted to serve in the RAF but then I met my wife, got married and had our daughter and out of respect for her wishes at the time that dream went down the proverbial pan but ignoring everything that is happening I think I'm at a point in my life where I want to serve, to defend the people and country that I have come to love the same as my father, uncle, grandfather, great grandfather, etc. did. I miss working at the airport but the nearest airports London/Toronto are 3 hours away and I've got no interest in a 6 hour commute lol.
 

benclark

Member
Jan 31, 2011
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0
Oh and please don't worry about off-topic now, right now you guys are pretty much all I'm allowed to talk too since she forbid me from ever talking to our friend again and she forbids me from talking to my parents in the UK about our relationship.
 

CanadianJeepGuy

Champion Member
Jun 24, 2012
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
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Manila
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N/A
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
10-05-2012; "In Process" 26-04-2013
Doc's Request.
docs and pics resent 04-09-2012
AOR Received.
16-08-2012 (Unofficial. Received email missing docs)
File Transfer...
09-10-2012
Med's Request
April 14th 2013
Med's Done....
Dec 2011; re-med May 06 2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
May 06 2013
VISA ISSUED...
May 27 2013
LANDED..........
June 15th 2013
on-hold said:
Though this is off-topic, it really seems to be your habit to blame your wife's reaction to problems that you caused, and to excuse your own behaviour. For your initial infidelity, don't mention 'depression' since that's a clinical condition that doesn't develop immediately; some combination of 'bored' or 'lonely' or 'thought I could get away with it' is probably a more accurate description. Your wife stopped trusting you, with cause, and later suspected you of fooling around again; somehow you thought it would be a good idea to share this with the woman she suspected you of doing this with (a form of emotional infidelity, showing that this new woman meant enough to you to share marriage secrets). You also blame Canada Post, Canada's qualification system, and probably a few other things I missed.

I'm not sure what you mean by your wife 'compartmentalizing' things -- it sounds like you mean 'not forgetting what I did'. I guess basically you have to decide if being close to your children is worth living with someone who doesn't trust you. I don't know any married men who have become close friends with women after getting married, I certainly haven't; friends at work, sometimes. My wife, who I've never cheated on, wouldn't put up with it if I did that; and yours seems to feel that you aren't good at establishing boundaries.

As for immigration issues surrounding divorce, you will find that international law is quite merciless, not even getting into the cost of travel. Families are separated by visa regulations every day, don't see each other for years, or are sundered completely. I would suggest that you tell your wife that you remain together while your PR is in process, work on the marriage, and if it fails, then you can be divorced at the soonest legal point where it won't endanger your status and you can be a positive presence in your kids' lives.
You should apply for CBSA unless you need to be a citizen. Provincial and municipal police services will hire PR's but the RCMP you would need to be a citizen.

Canada Post returns your mail because there is an issue with the address. If the postal code is wrong, if the city is wrong, if you live in a rural area where you mail would be delivered to a community mail box and the correspondence requires an address. If the address is illegible. I have received many things to deliver from CIC that have been improperly posted. Has CIC tried to call you when the mail was returned to them or have you called them to inquire?
 

benclark

Member
Jan 31, 2011
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CBSA? Canada Border Services Agency? Never thought about working for them, would certainly be more closely related to my former area of expertise. Would just need to get my gun licence although that shouldn't be too hard, I've been handling firearms for most of my life. Again though I would assume that the nearest job's they have would be Toronto/London. OPP is probably my most likely course of application, the same as my desire to join the forces I feel the need to serve and make a difference, always have.

CIC have never called and I never called them initially because of the warning on the website that calling them about your case will delay its processing. I know my mother-in-law had issues with the post office where she lives not delivering mail either. In both cases we received other mail with the exact same address which is why its so odd especially as things are coming through from CIC now. I can only imagine perhaps they screwed up the postcode typing a 5 in to the system instead of an S or some other daft mistake like that although when we got things ironed out the address they read to us that they had on their systems was correct.
 

on-hold

Champion Member
Feb 6, 2010
1,120
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Fair enough, everyone's different. In my experience, worrying about abstract things like 'forgiveness' is less useful than just figuring out mechanisms for living together. I bet you and your wife can agree that it would be good for the kids to have you in your life, and put off settling your differences until your immigration is secure. Discussing it like that would also show her that you understand her point of view and can give her some agency in the process, which might help things as well. Good luck, it's tough having kids, they make everything more difficult.
 

CanadianJeepGuy

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Jun 24, 2012
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Winnipeg, Manitoba
Category........
Visa Office......
Manila
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N/A
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
10-05-2012; "In Process" 26-04-2013
Doc's Request.
docs and pics resent 04-09-2012
AOR Received.
16-08-2012 (Unofficial. Received email missing docs)
File Transfer...
09-10-2012
Med's Request
April 14th 2013
Med's Done....
Dec 2011; re-med May 06 2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
May 06 2013
VISA ISSUED...
May 27 2013
LANDED..........
June 15th 2013
I don't know you so my opinion of your actions are of no value to your predicament. That is something best discussed with your Vicar.

She has you in a corner by your ballsack and you will just have to let her lead you around until your PR comes through.
 

SenoritaBella

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Jan 2, 2012
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Sounds like you guys are having quite a rough patch. Have you thought of trying to make friends with guys? Even the guys you work with... a few hours just watching hockey games or grabbing a beer with the boys will be good for you. Be sure they are of good character, as you don't want friends who have wondering eyes. :p
You are miles away, have no extended family around and hence little(or no) emotional support. Might explain why you felt like you could confide in the mutual friend.

I happen to agree to an extend only, that it is not a good idea to confide everything about your relationship to family. Just try to remain grounded, build a support network(make new friends of your own, volunteer, church, etc) and take care of your family.

There's some concern the need to be with your kids and the immigration matter could leave you vulnerable for abuse. Another reason to try to build a support network - this will empower you in terms of your rights, where to go for help, etc.

In the meantime, look into the provincial nominee program of your province, see whether semi-skilled or unskilled jobs also qualify. As well, after 1 year of skilled full-time work experience, you can apply for permanent residence under the Canadian Experience Class. Hope things work out well for you.


benclark said:
Oh and please don't worry about off-topic now, right now you guys are pretty much all I'm allowed to talk too since she forbid me from ever talking to our friend again and she forbids me from talking to my parents in the UK about our relationship.
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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You asked if an apprenticeship would be considered skilled. It would be.

On this website: http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/OccupationIndex.aspx you should be able to find all possible occupations.

The way you see if an occupation is considered skilled is by looking at the 4 digit code.

Starting with 0 means management position = skilled.

Not starting with 0 but 2nd digit is 0,1,2 or 3 = skilled.

Not starting with 0 but 2nd digit 4 or higher = semi- or low-skilled.

For example in agricultural, see http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Occupations.aspx?val=8

8252 Agricultural service contractors, farm supervisors and specialized livestock workers
2nd digit is 2 = skilled
you see, if you are considered a specialized worker, you may already be skilled. If you were to apply under CEC with that experience, it is up to you to show that it falls under that code. You would need a letter from the employer stating your job duties and they would have to more or less fall under that code rather than the general farm worker, see here:

8431 General farm workers
2nd digit is 4 = semi-skilled

In education, law and social, see http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Occupations.aspx?val=4

4311 Police officers (except commissioned)
2nd digit is 3 = skilled

4422 Correctional service officers
2nd digit is 4 = semi-skilled

Under retail and sales, see http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Occupations.aspx?val=6

6541 Security guards and related security service occupations
2nd digit is 5 = semi-skilled

Under business, finance & administration, see http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Occupations.aspx?val=1

1228 Employment insurance, immigration, border services and revenue officers
2nd digit is 2 = skilled

1511 Mail, postal and related workers
2nd digit is 5 = semi-skilled

Under the trades section, see http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Occupations.aspx?val=7

7271 Carpenters
2nd digit is 2 = skilled

and if you click on the trade, you see that the trade also includes apprentices.

It is a forest of codes and for anyone who is on an open work permit, it's crucial to pick the right job because the right job can lead to PR while the wrong job wont.

In order to get a regular work permit, you would need a labour market opinion from the employer and then you can apply for your work permit. You can still get a work permit for a semi-skilled / low-skilled job but you would have a hard time applying for PR with that. In some provinces, certain low skilled occupations are allowed to apply under their provincial nominee program but that depends on where you are.
 

herewecome

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I believe you need to wait for your citizenship before you can apply for the reserves.
 

benclark

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Senorita you've got it bang on there sadly.

Leon that's really helpful, right now I'm a Farrowing Tech in a very large sow barn, I'm sure that would come under specialised livestock worker, indeed that must be how the company keeps hiring and importing (that sounds terrible) Filipinos as they would need to have a job that the company can demonstrate no-one else in Canada is able to do if I understand how the rules work. I'll have a years worth of experience in September.

This certainly is a system full of loops within loops, gives me a headache just thinking about it so thank you for ironing some of it out. You've given me some hope if things do go south, which after another argument last night seems to be happening.
 

Leon

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benclark said:
Leon that's really helpful, right now I'm a Farrowing Tech in a very large sow barn, I'm sure that would come under specialised livestock worker, indeed that must be how the company keeps hiring and importing (that sounds terrible) Filipinos as they would need to have a job that the company can demonstrate no-one else in Canada is able to do if I understand how the rules work.
Able to do or want to do. They can also get labour market opinions to hire low skilled employees with no expertise based on that they have advertised the jobs and simply that no Canadians were interested.

In any case, if they keep hiring Filipinos, I am sure they have experience doing labour market opinions so they shouldn't have a problem getting one if you need it. If it comes to that, ask them if they can get you an LMO for the specialized farm worker NOC, not general farm worker because that is no good for you.

It can take a couple of months to get the LMO though so if you believe your wife might be about to cancel your sponsorship, you may want to ask them to do it now so you can get your work permit changed to a regular permit before she cancels the sponsorship and your open permit gets cancelled. If she doesn't end up cancelling the sponsorship, having a regular work permit will not affect the sponsorship application in any way so you have nothing to lose. It's basically a safety net for you.
 

laura8388

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Reading this thread makes me sad. How much immigration can effect our lives. So many people believe that just getting married means you can stay in the country and all your worries are over... not understanding how bad things can go when everything starts heading south.

Keep posting on here, we can be your friends that you are allowed to talk to! Although I in no way excuse cheating, I do believe by the sound of your posts that it was a stupid mistake that you genuinely regret and have learnt from.

All the best :)