Did anyone go out of Canada while waiting for your inland application reply?

[jaune]

Nice to hear your story matthewc.

So, did the officers know that you made an inland application? If they did, didn't they ask questions about that? May I know which country you are originally from and which custom you passed through?

Thank you.

 

[BeShoo]

Oh Beshoo, I thought you had made an inland application before you came back from the U.S. to Canada...
So you didn't hand in the application yet when he entered Canada? If he didn't, he could have just entered Canada as a tourist, given that he is an US resident, he should have up to 6 months like any other VISA exempt countries.

We are intending to file an outland application, but we are waiting for the FBI police check to come through. No, the application had not been filed yet, but the reasons to deny entry to a visa-exempt citizen still apply. I think he would have had considerable difficulty trying to enter as a regular tourist.

• He had no job in the U.S. to go back to.
• He had no apartment or home of his own to go back to (only his father's place which is more his residence on paper than in reality) and owns no property in the U.S.
• He has no family obligations that he needs to go back for.
• In short, he has no need or motivation for returning return to the U.S. really, and if they were to question how he is intending to pay his expenses while visiting Canada, he would have to tell them that I am paying the expenses. Since he does have a motivation to stay with me (I am his partner after all) it seems like he would rather flee the U.S and stay with me than return, because he has no good reason to return. This sets up all kinds of red flags.

It's true that thousands of residents from the U.S. and other visa-exempt countries come to Canada every day without any extensive questioning, but if they don't have a job or other obligations to return to they are immediately suspicious. Since we drove across the border, he didn't have any return ticket to show what date he intended to return either. He lives too close to the border to make it worthwhile to fly. Driving is easier and cheaper. They asked how long he intended to stay and he told them 6 months, but on weighing the evidence they decided that allowing him that much time was too risky.

 

[Siouxie]

I returned to the UK for 2 weeks in January 2005 (just before I put in our application for PR - spousal inland, dependant outland). We had been married for 13 months at the time and I only went back to the UK to get some paperwork I had in storage that was essential for my application (nobody else had access to the storage facility to get it for me).

As a UK national I didn't think I would have any problems re-entering Canada.

When I arrived back at Pearson, I got to the counter and was interrogated for 20 minutes by the Immigration officer. He said I wasn't a bonfide visitor as I was married and was about to put in an application for PR - and that I hadn't got Temporary Residency either. Even though I showed him my visitor extension (still valid for 4 months) he really didn't want to allow me in!

After much heated discussion and only by showing proof of funds and an address (my son's) in the UK he finally allowed me entrance to Canada. By the time I left him I was shaking and in tears. It was very unpleasant and worrying and I swore that day that I wouldn't leave the country again until I obtained my PR status. LIttle did I suspect it would be 5 years!

I am planning my first trip back to England in 5 years, to see my sister and brother, later this year.

Unless it is absolutely imperitive to return (illness or similar of a family member) I really would recommend NOT leaving the country until PR is given - all it takes is the Immigration Officer to be having a bad day and your application will be ruined.

You should always remember that you do not have a right to enter Canada and that the Immigration Officer at the port of entry has to right to deny you for any reason - or no reason at all.

It's just not worth the risk.

 

[Siouxie]

I have an implied status now and normally, I don't need a VISA to enter Canada given that I'm from HK...I can stay up to 6 months everytime I come in...

Hi there, May I ask a question? In what way do you think you have "implied status" ?

You either have legal status (as in extended visitor permit or from a work/study permit) or you don't have status. I thought I had "implied status" as I had an application for PR in place, however, because I had not renewed my visitor permit I was informed by CIC call centre that I could be deported at any time!

Even if you do somehow have implied status that will be void as soon as you leave the country.

As to staying for 6 months, if you read the legislation it states that you do not need a visa to enter and you may be permitted to stay for 6 months, however, that does not mean they have to allow you to stay for 6 months or even allow you entry!

Please be aware that, even as a UK national, you do not have any right to enter Canada or stay here... only Permanant Residents and Citizens do.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/apply-who.asp
To visit Canada, you must:

have a valid travel document, such as a passport
be in good health
satisfy an immigration officer that you have ties, such as a job, home and family, that will take you back to your country of origin
satisfy an immigration officer that you will leave Canada at the end of your visit and have enough money for your stay.
The amount of money you will need can vary with the circumstances of the visit, how long you will stay and whether you will stay in a hotel or with friends or relatives. For more information, ask the Canadian visa office in your country or region.

The officer will stamp your passport or let you know how long you can stay in Canada. The period is usually six months. In some cases, the officer may limit this period to cover only the intended purpose of your visit. Ask questions if you are unsure about anything.


I don't mean to sound unkind so please do not take offence, I am just concerned that you may be under the wrong impression with regards to status.

 

[matthewc]

I'm from the UK. At the time I took the trip to New York, my inland PR app was in process, but I didn't yet have approval in principle. I don't know exactly how the screening works at the Primary Inspection Line (the fast screening they do when you line up to first get your passport looked at entering Canada), but I'm guessing that if you have a PR application in process, and they have your passport number on file, when they swipe your passport, it would tell them that on the computer screen. (If I was designing a computer system to do that sort of primary inspection, I would make it do that!)

My full timeline is here, and I took that particular trip in early April 2007.

I took a calculated risk, and it's actually a bit subtle. When I submitted the application, I sent in the copy of my (at the time) current passport. However, it was soon to expire. I renewed it while still in Canada (via the UK FCO in Ottawa) and mailed a copy to CPC-V, and they attached the info to my file, all before the trip to NYC, but I guessed that CIC probably wouldn't actually add the passport number to my FOSS info until they did the majority of the processing later on, at the first-stage approval (AIP) stage. Based on the timelines for inland processing on the CIC site, I knew that wouldn't be until after my trip. So, when I entered Canada after my trip, that was actually the first time that specific passport had ever been used to enter Canada. I gambled that it was unlikely that passport - when swiped - would cause my PR application to flash up on their screen. I'm fairly sure that if I had been sent to immigration secondary (where you get sent for more questioning if they put a stripe in highlighter across your customs card, e.g. if you are entering with a visa, or landing as a PR), they would have realised I had a PR application in progress, and I would have had a much harder time getting in. I got lucky, and they stamped my passport at the PIL and let me through.

Of course, if PR applications do actually show up to the IOs at the PIL, I'll never know for sure if my PR application showed up that time. I suspect it didn't, or I'm fairly sure they would have sent me to secondary, but there's always the chance I got lucky and - say - they didn't notice it on the screen, or decided to turn a blind eye. I have had nice experiences with IOs before that indicate to me that occasionally they give you considerable benefit of the doubt; never count on that though!

Like I said, I don't recommend it. Siouxie's experience really goes to show that coming from a visa-exempt country isn't worth anything if you get a mean IO having a bad day.

 

[sbwv09]

I'm worried about just visiting as an outland person... although I think (HOPE!) it'll be easier for me. I'm a schoolteacher and have summer off anyway, so I'll still be able to show proof of employment as I'll have pay stubs coming to me all summer.. and I"ll just stay put from August on until the paperwork is through.. I'm hoping to have no trouble. I spent all three months in Canada last summer.. brought my cat and everything and didn't even get my passport looked at. I'm still nervous though.

My guy thinks it would be better to say I'm coming to Canada for some other reason, or that I haven't applied to be anything yet, but I'm afraid that I could get in trouble for doing that... what are your experiences? Is it better to say you haven't applied for PR yet?

 

[jaune]

Thank you Matthew for your detailed story. Yeah, I guess you did have kind of luck that time!

Siouxie,

Your experience was really unpleasant...maybe you really encountered a mean IO on that day, the important thing is they allowed you in eventually after seeing all the proof! I guess all these questions come from their doubt but as long as we are legal, well-prepared and bring along all the proof, they will not send us back to our home country, hopefully...? I don't know, I think I'll continue to listen to more advices from different organisations and maybe friends of friends who work in immigration...

<Even though I showed him my visitor extension (still valid for 4 months) he really didn't want to allow me in!> This is incredible, so your temporary visitor extension VISA would be invalid as well once you go out of the country? I know that I have an implied status because the call centre told me so: when we send in the application, we need to send an open work permit application form and pay for it at the same time so as to have an implied status, I did it as they suggested. I know that I'll lose this status once I leave the country though. I'm wondering whether there's any kind of VISA we can apply before leaving Canada in order to ensure we can come back!? That would be ideal and make much more sense...

sbwv09,

As others said here, they will be able to see you made an application through their system, if they find out you lie, you will get into trouble no doubt...

 

[Siouxie]

I think more to the point is the fact they do not HAVE to let you in - and it is up to the IO at the port of entry to make a decision based on his own thoughts. There are no guarantees that even if you have everything in order and all the documentation you like you can still get in front of an Ahole IO who is having a bad day and takes a dislike to you and refuses admittance. You would then also have a "refused entry" marker against your name.

There is no re-entry visa you can get prior to leaving - I asked too No, once you leave any extension you might have on a temporary visitor permit is wiped out

As to the implied status - it's only good for as long as they take to grant you a work permit / extension or refuse it. (I can't see them refusing it though, if you have AIP it's automatic to get one by application anyway).

I don't know if you can re-enter using an open work permit, others will be able to advise.

Isn't life as an inland applicant fun? Not.

 

[jaune]

Yes inland applicants life isn't fun at all...especailly in your case, I can't imagine waiting for 5 years. I regret that I didn't do more research before applying inland...

 

[jaune]

Hi,

May I ask you guys what a FOSS note is? When do we have to request it?

Thank you!

 

[BeShoo]

Hi,

May I ask you guys what a FOSS note is? When do we have to request it?

Thank you!

Field Operations Support System (FOSS) is the computer system used by Citizenship and Immigration Canada to process all immigration files within Canada. More information here: http://immipedia.ca/Ordering_FOSS_and_CAIPS_notes

 

[javcil]

Thanks al4ya for your sharing. So, you've been waiting for quite a long time now, I imagine one would die for going back home once after being stuck in Canada for such a long time! That's my case at least...I can't imagine not returning home for more than 2 years if the application does take that long. Was your husband asked a lot of questions at the immigration when he re-entered though? How long did he spend in the States? It would be nice to hear you share more about your story...what you said assured me somehow already.

 

[jaune]

hopefully, some more inland applicants will see this thread and share their experience and story!

 

[jaune]

hopefully, some more inland applicants will see this thread and share their experience and story!

 

[toby]

Thank you Beshoo, I had a look at the document, so perhaps if I'm able to prove that I'll leave if my application is refused, that will increase the chance of my re-entry to Canada? Would it be enough to show my family ties in my home country?

Seems like a Catch-22, but since you have applied for permanent residency, any claim that you have strong ties to your home country -- strong enough to draw you home if your permanent application were to be refused -- would seem weak and unconvincing.

I'd think you would be running a real risk.

Seniors: Is there no "permission" from CIC that would gain him re-entry to Canada? The criteria for temporary visas are contrary to the situation of a PR applicant.