desperately seeking answers!!! PLEASE HELP

[jeniselam]

My partner and I have been together for going on three years, after living together for almost a year, and being together for just over two, we knew we wanted to go back to canada. (we met in canada aug 2011, were apart for ten months, and then reunited in Australia in sept 2012, and have been physically together ever since)
We applied for our visa sept 2013, and the sydney office has had it since nov 1 2013, it has been almost eight months.
We applied as a conjugal relationship because due to visa limitations on New Zealand residents, he could not remain in canada after we met ( his visa had run out and new zealand residents only receive one visa through the working holiday scheme). Due to the unexpected nature of the relationship i did not have to funds to travel with him. We remained in a committed relationship the whole time we were apart and as soon as I was able to afford the trip to Australia I went. As he was residing there at the time.
The whole time we lived in Australia together ( sept 2012-april2013) we were gathering evidence such a joint bank accounts and lease agreements knowing we wanted to go back to canada and apply for this visa. In May 2013 we moved to New Zealand together and started the application process. We had not been living together for a full year yet and we believed this to be because of limitations that fell under the conjugal umbrella. Therefore we applied for a sponsorship visa as a conjugal couple.
We have not received any notification on how our application is going, and looking at a forum i just found for the Sydney Australia , CIC, most applications are going through within three months.
My visa has run out for New Zealand and we are currently travelling through central america so we can continue to be together, until hopefully my partners visa is accepted.
Can anyone please give us insight into weather we are in fact not a conjugal couple, or that the government will see that we are now common law? would they have declined out application already if they were going to? Would they have sent our application back if we did not fall under that category? Please help

 

[QuebecOkie]

From my understanding, you do meet the conditions for a conjugal couple. There is no barrier to you living together or marrying. The conjugal partner class is for those for whom it is *completely impossible* to either live together or get married. For instance, if a Canadian is in a relationship with someone in the Philippines who was previously married, where divorce is illegal, there is a very real barrier to their marriage. There is no barrier to you marrying your partner, and you've demonstrated you are able to live together.

I don't believe that you can change the application. You may need to cancel the application and reapply as common-law partners, as you now meet the requirements for that category. Not sure why CIC would go so long without contacting you at all.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Can anyone please give us insight into weather we are in fact not a conjugal couple, or that the government will see that we are now common law? would they have declined out application already if they were going to? Would they have sent our application back if we did not fall under that category? Please help

The very fact that you were living together when you applied means that you were not conjugal. It doesn't really matter that you are common-law now; they go by your status on the day you apply.

Have you contacted the VO to ask the status of the application?

 

[Rob_TO]

Can anyone please give us insight into weather we are in fact not a conjugal couple, or that the government will see that we are now common law? would they have declined out application already if they were going to? Would they have sent our application back if we did not fall under that category? Please help

As others mentioned, you are not a conjugal couple. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from getting married, or from living together for 12 continuous months (which doesn't have to be all in 1 country). Read here about the criteria for conjugal, and the number of times that it states you are expected to be common-law or married first before attempting conjugal:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.45. What is a conjugal partner?

Its unfortunate, but you should prepare fpr the the most likely possibility that your application will be rejected and you'll need to start again from scratch as common-law (you can't chance an app midway through to common-law, as your status must be effective as of the date you initially mailed the application). You have only an incredibly small chance if the visa officer is super sympathetic, to be approved as conjugal. I would order your GCMS notes immediately to see what they are currently thinking.

 

[jeniselam]

How do we go about contacting the visa office and obtaining the GCMS, as far as I can see because we haven't been over the time limit they will not respond to our e-mails? Also what is a GCMS..

 

[jeniselam]

"Conjugal partner

A conjugal partner is a foreign national residing outside Canada who is in a conjugal relationship with a sponsor for at least one year, but could not live with the sponsor as a couple. This term applies to both heterosexual and homosexual couples. This category was established for partners of sponsors who normally would present an application as spouse or common-law partner but cannot due to circumstances beyond their control (e. g., immigration barrier, religious reasons or sexual orientation). Thus, they could not live together for a period of at least one year.

In most cases, the foreign partner is also not able to legally marry their sponsor and qualify as a spouse. In all other respects, the couple is similar to a common-law couple or a married couple, meaning they have been in a bona fide (genuine) conjugal relationship for a period of at least one year.

However, a significant degree of attachment and mutually interdependence between both partners must be demonstrated. They must also provide proof of the obstacles or restrictions that prevent cohabitation or marriage."

This is an excerpt from the guide 3900, as it says in most cases the foreign partner is also not able to legally marry their sponsor and qualify as a spouse. In most cases. Marriage is not a condition, correct?

My partner had to leave canada because his working holiday scheme was about to expire and Kiwis do not get the option to extend to a second year, i.e., first immigration barrier. As we continued a committed relationship once he left the country, I purchased my australian working holiday visa as soon as I was able to afford it. ( Australia because that is where we planned to meet up) I purchased this less than 1 and a half months after he left. According to the australia visa you are not able to enter until you have sufficient funds to support yourself and as soon as I saved that money for myself (making minimum wage, paying rent, phone, insurance etc.) I booked my tickets. Is that not as well an immigration barrier? If i could have flown over to australia as soon as i could and have him support me, that is what we would have done

Now I fully realise that you are not the appeal board and everyone is here to help one another and I whole heartedly appreciate everyones input. Though, as our circumstances may not be as severe as someone living in a country where divorce is illegal, are those not immigration barriers? We have just sent an e-mail to the VO, hoping to hear back asap. Our biggest question is still why have we not heard a peep from CIC since nov. 2013?

 

[Rob_TO]

Is that not as well an immigration barrier?

No it isn't. Unfortunately CIC doesn't care whatsoever about your personal, work, or money related issues. To them an immigration barrier is that you can't physically get to another country under any possible means, due to being denied a visa.

In your case, you could have simply traveled to Australia as a visitor/tourist, as Canadians are visa-exempt to Asustrlia. It was your personal choice to wait until you got the working holiday visa. Whether you had money to support yourself there is not relevant to CIC decisions.

Basically for 2 people visa-exempt to each other's countries... CIC expects you to be married or common-law. There are some very rare cases where visa-exempt conjugal apps are approved, but I wouldn't count on it.

See how to order GCMS notes here, to see what's going on with your case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_E_dq_uLVo

 

[BubbOZ]

And to play devil's advocate, nothing stopped you two from getting married so why didn't you??

It sounds harsh, but that could be the extreme view taken by CIC...

No it isn't. Unfortunately CIC doesn't care whatsoever about your personal, work, or money related issues. To them an immigration barrier is that you can't physically get to another country under any possible means, due to being denied a visa.

In your case, you could have simply traveled to Australia as a visitor/tourist, as Canadians are visa-exempt to Asustrlia. It was your personal choice to wait until you got the working holiday visa. Whether you had money to support yourself there is not relevant to CIC decisions.

Basically for 2 people visa-exempt to each other's countries... CIC expects you to be married or common-law. There are some very rare cases where visa-exempt conjugal apps are approved, but I wouldn't count on it.

See how to order GCMS notes here, to see what's going on with your case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_E_dq_uLVo

 

[Rob_TO]

And to play devil's advocate, nothing stopped you two from getting married so why didn't you??

It sounds harsh, but that could be the extreme view taken by CIC...

Yes that is pretty much the view they take:

5.45. What is a conjugal partner?
Because of Supreme Court decisions, the choice not to marry is a constitutionally protected choice. Thus, CIC cannot require couples to marry in order to immigrate. However, if they are not married, they must be common-law partners. There is NO provision for fiancé(e)s or “intended common-law partners” in IRPA. If a Canadian and a foreign national can get married or can live together and establish a common-law relationship, this is what they are expected to have done before they submit sponsorship and immigration applications.

 

[jeniselam]

Why is that definition not stated on the guide? Being a couple together almost two years and living together for nearly one we thought we were fine. So i suppose we prepare for the worst, would have been nice to have been notified that we were not eligible when we filed eight months ago..I guess we still have a chance but i'm not counting on it. So where do we go from here? Will we be eligible for common law anymore because in a month or so I will go back to Canada and he will go back to NZ, we want to be together but we also want to start saving money for the future together. I'll also be buying a car and settling into a house for when he arrives.
Can we apply for common law having lived together nov 2012- june 2014? or must you be living together at the time. So excited to start all over again.

 

[jeniselam]

Yes that is pretty much the view they take:

5.45. What is a conjugal partner?
Because of Supreme Court decisions, the choice not to marry is a constitutionally protected choice. Thus, CIC cannot require couples to marry in order to immigrate. However, if they are not married, they must be common-law partners. There is NO provision for fiancé(e)s or “intended common-law partners” in IRPA. If a Canadian and a foreign national can get married or can live together and establish a common-law relationship, this is what they are expected to have done before they submit sponsorship and immigration applications.

I suppose the CIC won't take the answer that we would like to get married when we are good and ready and not in order for simon to be able to come to canada. Thats the thing that gets me, we had been together for nearly two years and can't get this visa, yet I know a couple back in Canada who merely dated for a year and got married so she could stay and it worked. Different circumstances I suppose.

 

[scylla]

I suppose the CIC won't take the answer that we would like to get married when we are good and ready and not in order for simon to be able to come to canada.

You're right - they won't. Again, you face no immigration barriers to marriage and common law.

 

[jeniselam]

You're right - they won't. Again, you face no immigration barriers to marriage and common law.

Is it plausible route to wait until we hear something, most likely a denial, and then get married. Have him come into the country on a visitors visa with me and then apply inland for a spousal visa?

 

[QuebecOkie]

We basically got married for CIC. And for the military. We had been living together for almost exactly a year when we started the move, but we had NO paperwork tying us together. I moved in, he kep paying all of his bills, I paid all of mine, and I bought all of the groceries/household goods - no joint accounts, no shared lease, etc. We *could* have gotten statements from family and friends, a letter from the manager at our apartment, etc., but both the military and CIC were a lot easier to deal with as spouses than as common-law partners.

To me, the decision to move to his country was a bigger one than the decision to marry. Marriage is a piece of paper. It didn't change our relationship or anything else in our lives; the commitment and love that existed before we got that piece of paper are exactly the same now. Immigration has affected a HECK a lot more than marriage.

(Not criticizing your decisions. Just sharing my own thoughts.)

You'll probably still want to apply outland, though you can do that with your partner in Canada with you. Outland through Australia is generally much faster than inland, and traveling out of Canada while the app is in progress won't pose any risk to an outland app, unlike an inland app.

 

[jeniselam]

We basically got married for CIC. And for the military. We had been living together for almost exactly a year when we started the move, but we had NO paperwork tying us together. I moved in, he kep paying all of his bills, I paid all of mine, and I bought all of the groceries/household goods - no joint accounts, no shared lease, etc. We *could* have gotten statements from family and friends, a letter from the manager at our apartment, etc., but both the military and CIC were a lot easier to deal with as spouses than as common-law partners.

To me, the decision to move to his country was a bigger one than the decision to marry. Marriage is a piece of paper. It didn't change our relationship or anything else in our lives; the commitment and love that existed before we got that piece of paper are exactly the same now. Immigration has affected a HECK a lot more than marriage.

(Not criticizing your decisions. Just sharing my own thoughts.)

You'll probably still want to apply outland, though you can do that with your partner in Canada with you. Outland through Australia is generally much faster than inland, and traveling out of Canada while the app is in progress won't pose any risk to an outland app, unlike an inland app.

How is it possible to make an outland application while living inland with my partner? I know inland takes much longer but I have just come from Australia and New Zealand using both my one year visas travel is never an issue and neither is marriage really, we know it won't change the relationship. We would have just preferred to do it on our own terms rather than have it as a sort of ultimatum to be physically together. Is it possible that if we got married and sent in our marriage cert. it would change the outcome of the decision? Doubtful isn't it.