DEPRESSION SETTING IN - HELP - INDIAN - SENIORS - HELPPPPP!!!

[rahulk9]

It is in Canada but i believe he meant that in India you could live very comfortably on that as that's way more than their average wage.


Overall I don't understand why Canada has been handing out PR cards like candy. You've had so many immigrants come, highly educated, with little to no job prospects.

The government is really stupid here on all levels.
Job competition is brutally fierce because you're getting so many applications for one job.

Our company was hiring and your supposed to apply online as it clearly states. Still you have so many desperate people coming in through door begging to speak with a manager about the job. 90% are not Canadians but desperate immigrants going from office to office in the brutal cold dropping of resumes.

This is reality in Canada. Plus everything in Canada is of a lower quality and higher cost compared to the US or other G7 nations.

If you have a decent income and life why would you risk it to come to a freezer with no job prospects?

I mean i can understand why people risk it for America but why Canada?

Those who make proper assessment know that Canada is a backdoor to US. If nothing works than they can still give a try in US. FSW 14 was the easiest immigration option without job offer.

 

[david1697]

I want to live in a Liberal country.

Not "Liberal" in a sense this word was distorted since 1950's, but LIBERAL in a sense US was when founded.

I need money to buy food to eat, but I also need an air to breath (which is free of cost where it exists, but where it doesn't exist you will die, even if you have all the money you can dream of).

I believe US is no longer as Liberal country as it once was. Although it's far ahead of most of the other countries of the world, lately its' society is becoming more and more like a Bolshevik society, where everything in your life is decided by unknown men high up and where as an Individual you are more and more monitored, controlled and pressured to accept what Society at large wants you to be, with little concern for your Personal preferences and Individual traits.

I believe Canada, in some aspects ,has Freer and Happier society today than US does, and I believe it provides a better quality of life than US.
You can even see it on the faces of people. When I drove back from Canada to US, I noticed that people on our side of the border were noticeably sullen and glum.

Don't take my words for it, spend a day or two in Toronto or Oakville, Ontario then drive across border and make stop-over in Pennsylvania and other states along your way. Observe people when they don't feel they are being observed. You will notice a big difference in facial expressions of people, which are not fake but a genuine indicator of what they feel inside.

Now, we want our kids to live in a society that is most Liberal and provides most of the Liberties for Individuals to grow and thrive. We want them to be the Happiest they can be in their lives.

I am forced to use the words that, due to overuse, lost their meaning over time, but as incredible as it may seem to you that's how I feel, in terms of greater Liberty being an inseparable part and parcel of Happier life.


Canada, in our opinion, seems to be a better choice in those very important measures, things that I think make people happy.

But what it does not seem to provide are jobs for new comers (and it won't in observable future, due to new economic policies I believe it has in place and which I discussed earlier on this thread).

And just as oxygen rich AIR is necessary to live, FOOD is obviously also needed to avoid death by starvation.

So, while we wish we could move and live in Canada , even if we earned less money there (for proverbial 'more air' in exchange for some sacrifice of a 'food') , we are not able to move there if we can't earn anything.
And we don't count 'survival jobs' , because those will make our lives miserable beyond tolerable. I am not a college kid or someone who doesn't know how to do anything better than flip burgers. Same goes for my spouse.

Above is as simple explanation as I can make, written to be understood by even the biggest of the simpletons out there, to explain why, in a case such as ours, we would want to move to Canada from US (despite having a right to indefinitely live, work and enjoy all the benefits of life in US that those without US Citizenship or Permanent Residence can't) .

I understand if you are currently in some place where basic needs of life (like food, toilet and etc) are luxuries reserved for top elite, then of course you might naturally think in black and white terms and you might think any place that gives you a higher paying job and opportunity to have most luxuries is also the best to live in.

As someone who lives in US for over 20 years I know that there are things other than "FOOD" that a Human being needs to be happy.

 

[ht711]

Those who make proper assessment know that Canada is a backdoor to US. If nothing works than they can still give a try in US. FSW 14 was the easiest immigration option without job offer.

You are right, make a plan n work towards it.

 

[aashay12]

I actually have stopped worrying about a us green card
If it has to happen it will..Canada is a great country...
It has it's own problems....like... Other country....
I look at it this way.....if I have permanently decided
I might as well look at the other opprtuinities Canada has.
Which not be related to ur field...but worth looking into...
May b time for a career change....
Who knows what's going to happen to us, when there is
So much technology involved and taking over our lives...
The profession which we have today, mite not even exist tomorrow
So it's very important to see, if there's any other profession to get
Into by starting at a low paying job to gain experience...
Like for eg....an accountant working at a fishiing company working on their
Transportation..... Small small jobs count and tells about u a lot in ur resume....
Having an different approach mite be an opprtuinity for something greater than u envisioned..
I know saying and doing are 2 different things..... but worth a try...

 

[david1697]

Good luck with that strategy aashay, but let me tell you something I know.

One of the outcomes of over saturation of job market with desperate workers is that most hiring companies now demand years of experience even for entry level positions (The only people they would still hire for entry level and without experience are fresh college graduates. They won't even consider you for such position if you are not in your early twenties).

This is how it works in most of the companies today:
Let's say they hired someone in 2008 with zero experience for certain position and trained them (when the job market was healthy), and now that person decided to leave their position. So, there is a vacancy now.
Do you think the job ad will read the same as in 2008, like "Entry level XYZ needed, will train?".
No. Since there are too many workers to choose from, the hiring company will want to have a luxury of hiring someone who can do everything from get go, without any training at all. So, to replace the guy (who was hired for entry position and stayed there for 7 years) , the HR will create an ad where they will want someone who did exactly the same tasks for at least 3-5 years.

Your resume will not even be looked at if it doesn't have the specific 'key words'.


What career change are you talking about ?

 

[aashay12]

probably looking for a career change in restaurant business
or joining the goverment jobs....
U cant have it your way all the time, atleast in Canada.....
it sucks but got to find an alternative, career change means a lot...to people with good education and years of experience.....
Its the way it is and if one wants to live here....they gottta change....Canada wont.

 

[david1697]

probably looking for a career change in restaurant business
or joining the goverment jobs....
U cant have it your way all the time, atleast in Canada.....
it sucks but got to find an alternative, career change means a lot...to people with good education and years of experience.....
Its the way it is and if one wants to live here....they gottta change....Canada wont.

What do you mean "can't have it your way in Canada"? Are you joking? You can't have it ANY way.
I am not saying it's mere caprice of employee, I am telling you that your resume won't even be looked at if it's in a field entirely different from what you have experience in. ;D


P.S. It's the economy, not what you do or how you do, but economy which sucks now, and sucks big time, in Canada as well as in USA.

In ANY economy,and I have said it before, even in Somali in Africa, you can do very well if you have a 'network' and know people in right places.

The difference between Somali, India, Russia or any other third world country and the advanced Western (particularly North American model) had always been that you didn't have to "know" someone or have too many things going on for you, but you could be anyone, from any walk of the life, and if you tried things actually worked, as long as you were willing.

If you tried to get a job, bingo, you had one. And not just a minimum pay 'flip the burger' job, but whatever you were qualified for.

Those days are gone now. And those days will not return unless our economy rebounds.

All this talk about "You don't get this because you don't do that" is like going to Somali and telling kids they are starving to death because they don't know how to 'network' with the guys who have bread, or that they should look for a career change

 

[DirectEnergy]

The difference between Somali, India, Russia or any other third world country and the advanced Western (particularly North American model) had always been that you didn't have to "know" someone or have too many things going on for you, but you could be anyone, from any walk of the life, and if you tried things actually worked, as long as you were willing.

Friend, the way you worded this leaves me wondering where exactly you didn't have to know someone to make things work, in "Somali, India, Russia" or in "advanced Western" countries. To me this looks like a Freudian slip.
I'm originally from Russia and I have been living here in Canada for 10 years (did my MA and PhD here). The starkest contrast between finding work in Moscow and here in my experience has been that back there you get hired precisely because you qualify, while here in Canada you almost have to know someone to find something decent. No wonder that Russia is the second country in the world (only after the US) in terms of number of immigrants even though the country (unlike Canada) does not invite anyone and has no immigration program. See, for instance http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-the-worlds-second-largest-immigration-haven-11053

 

[david1697]

Friend, the way you worded this leaves me wondering where exactly you didn't have to know someone to make things work, in "Somali, India, Russia" or in "advanced Western" countries. To me this looks like a Freudian slip.
I'm originally from Russia and I have been living here in Canada for 10 years (did my MA and PhD here). The starkest contrast between finding work in Moscow and here in my experience has been that back there you get hired precisely because you qualify, while here in Canada you almost have to know someone to find something decent. No wonder that Russia is the second country in the world (only after the US) in terms of number of immigrants even though the country (unlike Canada) does not invite anyone and has no immigration program. See, for instance http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-the-worlds-second-largest-immigration-haven-11053

Oh really? With all due respect , but being from Moscow haven't you heard how your FSB 'covers' (or 'provides a roof', as Russians say) all the non-gov 'businesses' there, how racketeers from 1990's became 'security firms' that 'protect' small businesses (essentially from 'protectors') and how adventurers from the bloody post-perestroyka period either ended up in prison OR became elected government officials and incredibly wealthy oligarchs in Russia?

As to jobs that hired in Moscow (which, with over 10 mil population , is almost THE ONLY PLACE IN AN ENTIRE COUNTRY WHERE JOBS ARE, IN A COUNTRY THAT IS THE BIGGEST IN SIZE IN THE WHOLE WORLD, BIGGER THAN CANADA AND HAS OVER 145 MLN POPULATION), I believe SOME jobs you could get based on qualification (such as in IT professions), but I don't think overall Russia is far ahead of India or Somali, in terms of how corrupted the entire system there is.

You didn't have to "know" someone in US to get into entry level or mid-level, white collar jobs in US, and this was as late as in mid 2000's, before recession.
You could walk into any staffing agency, fill out an application, take couple of tests and, within a day or two, recruiter would call you and offer you a position.
In 1990's you could even open classifieds section of a newspaper, pick up the phone, call hiring managers, speak with them directly on the phone, have your interview scheduled (none of the nonsense you have today, like 3+ interviews and an elaborate key-word scheme to by-pass a robot and get attention of HR),and you would soon get a job. Not the best job, not the highest paying job, not the one you wanted from get go, but you would get a white collared job, paying you at least triple of the minimum wage of McDonalds', and it was up to you to work up your way from there.
Of course, to get something better you always needed some connections/references, and most people worked up their ways doing it, but it was none of what it is like today. There were, all in all, PLENTY of opportunities out there.

And when I speak to people who were in Canada for past 20 years I usually hear that job market in Canada was similar to what it was in US back then.
May be not as good as in US, but you didn't have to compete with 200 applicants per white collar vacancy and didn't have to "know" someone to get better than 'flip the burger' job in white collar industry

 

[DirectEnergy]

Moscow (which, with over 10 mil population , is almost THE ONLY PLACE IN AN ENTIRE COUNTRY WHERE JOBS ARE, IN A COUNTRY THAT IS THE BIGGEST IN SIZE IN THE WHOLE WORLD, BIGGER THAN CANADA AND HAS OVER 145 MLN POPULATION),

You are talking nonsense. Use your head - the country has the 2nd largest number of immigrants in the world. There are many more immigrants in Russia than the entire population of Moscow, so they cannot all live and work in one city. So what do those do that live outside Moscow? Collect EI benefits? ;D

I don't think overall Russia is far ahead of India or Somali, in terms of how corrupted the entire system there is

Dream on, dude...
I'm not going to waste my time educating you. Your ignorance is only your problem.






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[DirectEnergy]

PS Btw, I know nothing about Somali, but I suspect your image of India is pretty distorted, too.

 

[rahul20978]

PS Btw, I know nothing about Somali, but I suspect your image of India is pretty distorted, too.

Oh, India is plenty corrupt, my friend. As a small businessman in India, I end up paying most of what I earn in either taxes or bribes. Even if I wanted to complain, I'd probably have to bribe people to take the complaint. That's one of the main reasons I am thinking of emigrating.

 

[rahulk9]

Oh, India is plenty corrupt, my friend. As a small businessman in India, I end up paying most of what I earn in either taxes or bribes. Even if I wanted to complain, I'd probably have to bribe people to take the complaint. That's one of the main reasons I am thinking of emigrating.

Completely agree with you. As a businessman it is a pain to run a business in this country. We have to pay a bribe to a corrupt official to investigate another corrupt official. If by any chance we file a case in court, then after 50 years we will get the verdict. At least Canada is better in this aspect.

 

[david1697]

You are talking nonsense. Use your head - the country has the 2nd largest number of immigrants in the world. There are many more immigrants in Russia than the entire population of Moscow, so they cannot all live and work in one city. So what do those do that live outside Moscow? Collect EI benefits? ;D
Dream on, dude...
I'm not going to waste my time educating you. Your ignorance is only your problem.

Problem is not my ignorance,in fact I am aware of what I am talking about, but it's your emotional investment in the subject and personal attachment to Moscow. Evidently, it prevents you from objectively viewing the reality.

Overwhelming majority of migrants in Russia that I heard of are from former parts of what used to be a Soviet Union. A lot of them migrate without documentation , although some qualify for PR and Citizenship under existing law. Many work low paid jobs, selling groceries, sweeping the streets. Others join organized crime, get caught and make headlines in media. And there is hardly any other place in the world where racism and hatred of 'others' is as open and unambiguous as it is in Moscow. Racism and stupidity of natives is disgusting beyond conscionable. Cops extort money from nearly anyone who doesn't look Russian, to just leave them alone on the street. Shaved-headed Neo-Nazis openly terrorize people, even while they ride public transportation. Your show-business, and this is a well known fact, is a place where large sums of money are laundered, and it's almost totally controlled by your underworld, with obvious patronage by your law enforcement agencies. Nothing can be accomplished in Russia without 'blat'. In some aspects Russia is even more corrupted and has more vile system of oppressive government than India or Somali does.
I am aware of the subject, dude, you can't fool me with it.

 

[rahulk9]

Problem is not my ignorance,in fact I am aware of what I am talking about, but it's your emotional investment in the subject and personal attachment to Moscow. Evidently, it prevents you from objectively viewing the reality.

Overwhelming majority of migrants in Russia that I heard of are from former parts of what used to be a Soviet Union. A lot of them migrate without documentation , although some qualify for PR and Citizenship under existing law. Many work low paid jobs, selling groceries, sweeping the streets. Others join organized crime, get caught and make headlines in media. And there is hardly any other place in the world where racism and hatred of 'others' is as open and unambiguous as it is in Moscow. Racism and stupidity of natives is disgusting beyond conscionable. Cops extort money from nearly anyone who doesn't look Russian to just leave them alone on the street. In some respects Russia is even more corrupted and has more vile system of oppressive government than India or Somali does.
I am aware of the subject, dude, you can't fool me with it.

I will not put Russia and India on same equation as Somali. Somali is a war torn country and seeing the daylight next day is the biggest challenge in that country.