Dependant children application Refusal

[Steph C]

Canadian culture is so diverse and it's only something that has become clear to me after traveling the world and coming back. If Canadian culture was all the same, how could I travel to Ontario and become offended by people's mannerisms One thing I noticed we share as a culture is the ability to take offense easily. If Americans were like dogs, friendly, happy to see you, then Canadians are somewhat like cats. Pfft!!

 

[Fencesitter]

It really depends on where you grew up. Big cities, more diversity. Small cities and towns, less diversity.

Not just to take offense easily, but to apologize too often.

FS

 

[fandv]

Hmmmmm, this thread got me really concerned! I didn't realise that a sponsor that lives abroad needs to provide extremely detailed proofs of his/her intention of resettling in Canada!

I'm a Canadian, currently living in Canada. In October I'm gonna get married, in Indonesia, to an Indonesian woman. After the wedding, I plan to sponsor my future wife to Canada, and we will be applying through Singapore. My Canadian employer is kind enough that they let me work remotely from Indonesia. That's a really nice thing, because then it means that as the sponsorship application is being assessed, I can be together with my future wife in Indonesia.

I went through the list of proofs (of intention to resettle in Canada) that FenceSitter provided. Here is his list, with my thoughts written in red letters:


1. Employment offer;

Since I STILL AM employed by a Canadian company, logically I won't be able to show any job offer letter.

2. E-mails with banks enquiring about mortgage options;

When my future wife and I land in Canada, probably we will stay at my parents' house for 1 to 2 months, while we are trying to find a place to rent. Then 1 or 2 years after, I will start planning to buy a house/condo. Plus, it'll take how long..........like, 1 year, for my future wife to get her permanent residence? So why would I inquire about mortgage options nowadays? It's too early no? If I made the inquiries to my banks and used the emails as proofs of intention to resettle in Canada, wouldn't it sound forced and artificial?!

Just to give you guys an idea: we plan to submit the application to Mississauga in November or December 2012. Let's say it takes 1 year for my future wife to get her PR....so let's say that happens in December 2013. Then let's say we rent a place for 1 year, so that'll end in Dec 2014. So probably it won't be till 2015 that we start planning to buy a house.

Now: about the rental plan, I am not sure if I can use my rental inquiries as proofs either. I estimate that my future wife will get her PR by Dec 2013, so probably she and I will land in Canada sometime in Jan/Feb 2014. If I were to make rental inquiries in Nov/Dec 2012 (which is when we will submit the application), it would appear artificial no??

3. E-mails with realty companies enquiring about properties in the area where we want to live;

Same as #2.

4. Mention of my status as a student at a Canadian university;

I already graduated from university in 2006.

5. Letters of support from both sides of the family and specifically my parents, saying that we can stay with them until we sort out our living arrangements;

I will be able to get such letters.

6. 4.5 page detailed account of everything we plan to do to separate our ties from China and re-establish in Canada (I went into a lot of detail and professed my sincere desire to leave - linking this with the fact that we want to raise our son in Canada where we have better health care, education, etc...);

I will be able to share our future plans too in Canada. (we don't have any children though, although we plan to have some, in the future)

7. Letters of support from friends stating they know of our plans to live in Canada and expressing their support and encouragement; and

I will be able to get such letters.

8. Certified copies of our son's Canadian Citizenship Certificate and passport application with a note expressing the reasons why we chose to get these documents (because he needs them in order to live in Canada and travel from China to Canada).

We have no children, so we can't do this.




In conclusion: #5, $6, and #7 are really the only real proofs that I will be able to submit with great certainty and clarity. But I am not sure if those will suffice.......?

If you guys were in my position, what other proofs would you submit? What would you tell the CIC to convince them that I will in fact resettle in Canada?

 

[missmini]

don't worry fandv u cannot compare urself with someone who barely lived in canada and maybe he promised before that he would and he did not; u will b outside canada for what 1-2 years and it's clear u went just to b with her throughout the process, not before; also depending of ur status in indonesia u might still b a resident in canada - if u r only on visit visas, not permanent residency for example
what u can do when u go outside don't change ur address to an address outside to the banks, credit cards, etc and don't close those!! change it to ur parents address in canada; then u will show that u still have ur ties, u will show examples of mails u receive and i don't think anyone would have any doubts
i agree with u abt the mortgage although it's good proof for some it's financially impossible and yeah it could look artificial
the letter u plan to provide from ur parents it's better to b notarized
if u want to read more we had a discussion on the Jan 2012 thread, around page 244, between me and another member Amoss
good luck!!

 

[Steph C]

Hmmmmm, this thread got me really concerned! I didn't realise that a sponsor that lives abroad needs to provide extremely detailed proofs of his/her intention of resettling in Canada!

I'm a Canadian, currently living in Canada. In October I'm gonna get married, in Indonesia, to an Indonesian woman. After the wedding, I plan to sponsor my future wife to Canada, and we will be applying through Singapore. My Canadian employer is kind enough that they let me work remotely from Indonesia. That's a really nice thing, because then it means that as the sponsorship application is being assessed, I can be together with my future wife in Indonesia.

I went through the list of proofs (of intention to resettle in Canada) that FenceSitter provided. Here is his list, with my thoughts written in red letters:


1. Employment offer;

Since I STILL AM employed by a Canadian company, logically I won't be able to show any job offer letter.

2. E-mails with banks enquiring about mortgage options;

When my future wife and I land in Canada, probably we will stay at my parents' house for 1 to 2 months, while we are trying to find a place to rent. Then 1 or 2 years after, I will start planning to buy a house/condo. Plus, it'll take how long..........like, 1 year, for my future wife to get her permanent residence? So why would I inquire about mortgage options nowadays? It's too early no? If I made the inquiries to my banks and used the emails as proofs of intention to resettle in Canada, wouldn't it sound forced and artificial?!

Just to give you guys an idea: we plan to submit the application to Mississauga in November or December 2012. Let's say it takes 1 year for my future wife to get her PR....so let's say that happens in December 2013. Then let's say we rent a place for 1 year, so that'll end in Dec 2014. So probably it won't be till 2015 that we start planning to buy a house.

Now: about the rental plan, I am not sure if I can use my rental inquiries as proofs either. I estimate that my future wife will get her PR by Dec 2013, so probably she and I will land in Canada sometime in Jan/Feb 2014. If I were to make rental inquiries in Nov/Dec 2012 (which is when we will submit the application), it would appear artificial no??

3. E-mails with realty companies enquiring about properties in the area where we want to live;

Same as #2.

4. Mention of my status as a student at a Canadian university;

I already graduated from university in 2006.

5. Letters of support from both sides of the family and specifically my parents, saying that we can stay with them until we sort out our living arrangements;

I will be able to get such letters.

6. 4.5 page detailed account of everything we plan to do to separate our ties from China and re-establish in Canada (I went into a lot of detail and professed my sincere desire to leave - linking this with the fact that we want to raise our son in Canada where we have better health care, education, etc...);

I will be able to share our future plans too in Canada. (we don't have any children though, although we plan to have some, in the future)

7. Letters of support from friends stating they know of our plans to live in Canada and expressing their support and encouragement; and

I will be able to get such letters.

8. Certified copies of our son's Canadian Citizenship Certificate and passport application with a note expressing the reasons why we chose to get these documents (because he needs them in order to live in Canada and travel from China to Canada).

We have no children, so we can't do this.




In conclusion: #5, $6, and #7 are really the only real proofs that I will be able to submit with great certainty and clarity. But I am not sure if those will suffice.......?

If you guys were in my position, what other proofs would you submit? What would you tell the CIC to convince them that I will in fact resettle in Canada?

I honestly don't even think they would know if you were in Indonesia or not and for how long. I don't think they keep track of who is in or out of the country. Every proof you have points to Canada as your home. I wouldn't sweat it. For the last 10 years I worked 9 months of the year abroad. I paid my taxes as self employed. Nobody seemed to care or notice.

 

[fandv]

Thanks for the replies, missmini and Steph C.

Steph C: true that probably the CIC doesn't keep track of our travel records.

However, take a look at the following form:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5490E.PDF (Sponsored Spouse Questionnaire)

Question 28 asks "Are you currently living with your sponsor?"

(I am coming to Indonesia in the third week of September, and the wedding is going to be at the end of October).

Since the wedding will be in Indonesia, and I will continue to remain in Indonesia to be by my future wife's side (until she gets her PR), she will have to answer "Yes" to question 28, which means the CIC will easily be able to deduce that I am in fact in Indonesia.......right??

 

[Steph C]

Don't say 'living' say visiting for x months.. otherwise they will assume you have lived there for a while previously.

 

[missmini]

yes fandv u r right that question is more like cohabitating, living together which is very good for a new wed couple; so yeah she needs to answer yes there and also there was a question in sponsor questionnaire where it asked r u currently outside canada - there u should say yes too, otherwise u would misrepresent urself....they will know since when u live there based on the address u put and the periods for that address (sept 2012 - present); to the same question u will write a detail explanation that even outside u r actually visiting and staying with her until the visa is issued and u will explain and include the proofs don't worry i'm almost sure they will have no doubt

Edit: one more thing - to be considered a non-resident u need to b outside canada for at least 6 consecutive months or 1 year?? i don't remember exactly and u need to have some residency in the other place; if u r with visitor visa than yeah u r actually visiting and living together during the visit so somehow u need to mention all these points good luck!!

 

[missmini]

Don't say 'living' say visiting for x months.. otherwise they will assume you have lived there for a while previously.

not really since when he will list the addresses outside canada - they will see only one and the period which just started; so they will know that he was always living in ca except those few months

 

[fandv]

yes fandv u r right that question is more like cohabitating, living together which is very good for a new wed couple; so yeah she needs to answer yes there and also there was a question in sponsor questionnaire where it asked r u currently outside canada - there u should say yes too, otherwise u would misrepresent urself....they will know since when u live there based on the address u put and the periods for that address (sept 2012 - present); to the same question u will write a detail explanation that even outside u r actually visiting and staying with her until the visa is issued and u will explain and include the proofs don't worry i'm almost sure they will have no doubt

Edit: one more thing - to be considered a non-resident u need to b outside canada for at least 6 consecutive months or 1 year?? i don't remember exactly and u need to have some residency in the other place; if u r with visitor visa than yeah u r actually visiting and living together during the visit so somehow u need to mention all these points good luck!!

Thanks again missmini!

Good point about the visitor visa.....

Hmmmm, you know what? Could you please take a look at this?

http://indonesia.angloinfo.com/moving/residency/

Originally, I was going to get the 4th type of visa (KITAS), translated to English, it literally means "Limited Stay Permit Visa". It's also known as Temporary Residence Permit. It's a "semi" permanent resident visa, since it has to be renewed every 1 year. (There's an even more permanent type of visa, called the KITAP, which is renewable every 5 years. But I'm not even thinking about getting it.)

Do you think it's a bad idea to get a KITAS then? If it is, then perhaps it's better for me to get the 1st type of visa, which is the VKSB.

The way VKSB works is: first I apply for it through the Indonesian consulate in Canada. Initially it allows me to stay in Indonesia for up to 2 months. Then, if I want to stay longer than 2 months, I will have to renew it. Each renewal is only valid for 1 month. I can renew up to 4 times. So in total I will get 2 months + 4 months = 6 months. All 4 renewals can be done from within Indonesia.

After 6 months, I have to get out of Indonesia and apply for another VKSB from an Indonesian consulate abroad (not necessarily Canada; I can do it from Singapore, Malaysia, etc). Then I will get 2 months again initially, then will be able to renew it again for 4 more times, etc.....pretty much the same cycle can be repeated every 6 months.

(Actually, let me give you a little more explanation: my initial plan was to apply for a VKSB, which will allow me to stay for up to 2 months, initially. My future wife will only be able to sponsor me for a KITAS only if we are married, which means I can get a KITAS only after the wedding. It takes about 1 month for a KITAS to be issued (don't we all wish a Canadian PR comes this quickly...!!!))

So now I am starting to wonder whether I should apply for a KITAS after the wedding, or whether I should just keep renewing the VKSB, even after the wedding.
I'm just a little concerned about having a KITAS, since it has a little more permanency than a VKSB. If I had it, who knows the CIC might think that I am not serious enough about intending to resettle in Canada?!

(Why would I choose KITAS over VKSB? Well it's all about convenience.......I can get a KITAS once, and worry about renewing it a year later. Whereas with a VKSB, I'd have to go back and forth to the immigration office every month (after the first 2 months), and have to get out of Indonesia after 6 months, and go back in again, etc....what a hassle.....)

 

[missmini]

hmm i don't have legal knowledge into these things : if i would do it i would go for the temporary one year permit; from my experience having to go to the border every month (that's how it was where i am a few years ago) was not very convenient; and i think with all the every 2 months renewal it might costs more too
but if u plan to go and come from/to canada often during that period then the visit visa would work i guess;
also u need to think what status (what kind of visa) u will have in the moment u filled in, signed and send the forms; noone will blame u if after u'll take a longer visa there since maybe u might wait only for the 1st stage 3-4 months
good luck (read also abt what canada sees a resident or non-resident)