Definition of "Computer Systems Analyst" for NAFTA

[Calgary4Me]

I sent in my application for PR as a skilled worker a few months ago and just received it back for a minor documentation error.

However, I was applying under the NOC code 0213, which was eliminated for PR as of yesterday, which leaves me totally out of luck in that regard. Had I fixed the error and overnighted the forms to the CIC, I would have been in before the deadline, but I didn't know about the deadline until today, so... that's just bad luck, I guess.

Since I live in the US, I'm thinking I may be able to utilize the NAFTA immigration to move there temporarily, while looking for a company to sponsor a PR application.

I'm wondering what the definition of a "Computer Systems Analyst" in regards to the NAFTA temporary work visa is.

My work for the last 10 years is evenly divided between NOC 0213 (IT Manager) and NOC 2171 (Information Systems Analysts and Consultants).

My actual title right now is "Information Security Consultant", but it could just as easily be "Security Analyst" or "InfoSec Specialist". The title is a pretty vague thing anyway.

I've been searching around for the exact definition of "information systems analyst" in terms of NAFTA regulations and I can't find much. I've found some vague gobblegook about "a person who analyzes a process and implements computer systems to solve a problem" or something like that. This basically defines anyone who has ever touched a computer, in a vague way...

Is there a hard wording that defines a "computer systems analyst" as far as the exemption from getting a LMO? Would the title "Information Security Analyst" suffice? It is under the same NOC code (2171) as "Computer Systems Analyst".

But I've worked in IT for 10 years and I can't tell you that I've EVER seen the exact title "Computer Systems Analyst". That's so vague as to be almost meaningless. It's always "Process Analyst" or "Security Analyst" or may not even include the word "analyst" at all, but still have an identical job description.


As always, thanks for any insight you have. I have a couple of interviews lined up, but the companies I'm talking to are not going to be willing to wait 3 months to get a LMO, despite the fact that they've already been searching for several months for highly specialized skillsets and have been having trouble finding them in the local job market. I think they may take someone FAR less experienced before they wait another 3 months for an LMO.

Thanks!

 

[scarletsally]

I sent in my application for PR as a skilled worker a few months ago and just received it back for a minor documentation error.

However, I was applying under the NOC code 0213, which was eliminated for PR as of yesterday, which leaves me totally out of luck in that regard. Had I fixed the error and overnighted the forms to the CIC, I would have been in before the deadline, but I didn't know about the deadline until today, so... that's just bad luck, I guess.

Since I live in the US, I'm thinking I may be able to utilize the NAFTA immigration to move there temporarily, while looking for a company to sponsor a PR application.

I'm wondering what the definition of a "Computer Systems Analyst" in regards to the NAFTA temporary work visa is.

My work for the last 10 years is evenly divided between NOC 0213 (IT Manager) and NOC 2171 (Information Systems Analysts and Consultants).

My actual title right now is "Information Security Consultant", but it could just as easily be "Security Analyst" or "InfoSec Specialist". The title is a pretty vague thing anyway.

I've been searching around for the exact definition of "information systems analyst" in terms of NAFTA regulations and I can't find much. I've found some vague gobblegook about "a person who analyzes a process and implements computer systems to solve a problem" or something like that. This basically defines anyone who has ever touched a computer, in a vague way...

Is there a hard wording that defines a "computer systems analyst" as far as the exemption from getting a LMO? Would the title "Information Security Analyst" suffice? It is under the same NOC code (2171) as "Computer Systems Analyst".

But I've worked in IT for 10 years and I can't tell you that I've EVER seen the exact title "Computer Systems Analyst". That's so vague as to be almost meaningless. It's always "Process Analyst" or "Security Analyst" or may not even include the word "analyst" at all, but still have an identical job description.


As always, thanks for any insight you have. I have a couple of interviews lined up, but the companies I'm talking to are not going to be willing to wait 3 months to get a LMO, despite the fact that they've already been searching for several months for highly specialized skillsets and have been having trouble finding them in the local job market. I think they may take someone FAR less experienced before they wait another 3 months for an LMO.

Thanks!

Hi there,
I've had the title "Systems Analyst" and "IT Specialist" when I was with IBM. I do agree, it is a very vague title. Fortunately with IBM they give you a title and a job role, so I was a "Systems Analyst" but my role was an "Application Services - Support, Maintenance & Development".

I'm currently under a work permit under this exemption: cic.gc.ca/english/work/special-tech.asp

If your job role falls under one of the following, you don't need an LMO (until oct 1):
Senior Animation Effects Editor (NOC 9990.1)
Embedded Systems Software Designer (NOC 9990.2)
MIS Software Designer (NOC 9990.3)
Multimedia Software Developer (NOC 9990.4)
Software Developer—Services (NOC 9990.5)
Software Products Developer (NOC 9990.6)
Telecommunications Software Designer (NOC 9990.7)

Take note that my job, and work experience falls under three of these. I believe they aren't really much strict with placing you into a certain category or NOC. As long as you have your work experience, reference letters and resume to prove your skills, you're good to go.

 

[Calgary4Me]

Thanks Sally,

Unfortunately, (or fortunately?), my job description involves very little real "programming". I do know 8 programming languages and regularly go over other people's code, but my actual development work is limited to writing tools to make my job easier. Since I do extremely specialized security assessment and testing, so your list doesn't really do anything for me. I think the NAFTA "systems analyst" category is my best chance.

I would say there are likely only a few hundred people in North America that do exactly what I do and it's considered by some to be "the pinnacle" of technical IT work, but despite the narrow specialization (and possibly BECAUSE of it), and despite the high level of experience and requirements for entry into this field, it seems challenging to convince people that it fits into one of the big vague buckets that the governments have defined.

Does anyone have any insight on the exact definition of "Computer Systems Analyst"?

Thanks!

 

[sirl]

Giving this thread a bump. I'd like to know the answer. Some googling revealed this info but it's particular to the U.S. (not Canada) and it's not definitive:

"According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook ("OOH"), systems analysts define business, scientific or engineering problems and design their solutions using computers.
The INS Inspectors Field Manual ("IFM"), which replaces the old INS Operations Instructions, confirms that the computer systems analyst category does not include programmers. A systems analyst is an information specialist who analyzes how data processing can be applied to the specific needs of users and who designs and implements computer-based processing systems. Systems analysts study the organization itself to identify its information needs and design computer systems which meet those needs. Although the systems analyst will do some programming, the TN category has not been expanded to include programmers."

www americanlaw com / computer.html
(won't let me link)

 

[sogwap]

Job titles are somewhat meaningless. Your job title could be "Sanitation Engineer", for a glorified garbage collector job. What counts are the job responsibilities.

As far as NAFTA, it is not designed for immigration, but to facilitate free trade between US, Canada and Mexico. Part of which is work agreements between the countries.

To work under the NAFTA agreement your job requirements would have to fall under one of the 70 or so (professional) job categories. It also requires that you have the education, work experience, and most importantly a job offer. With these you can apply for a work permit at the border.

 

[sirl]

Here are a couple of links to the NOC pages for IT workers. These might be what's used when evaluating NAFTA job responsibilities and titles.

www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2006/ProfileQuickSearch.aspx?val=2&val1=2171&val65=computer%20systems%20analyst
www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2006/ViewAllTitlesQuickSearch.aspx?val=2&val1=2171&val65=computer+systems+analyst

(Sorry it won't let me post proper links.)