Days outside of Canada?

[ahaq12345]

Good day everyone,

I am a Canadian citizen born in Ontario. I sponsored my wife and she arrived in canada as a permanent residence in september of 2021.

My wife and i are currently abroad and have been for some months on extended holidays.

My question is, do the days she spends with me outside of canada count towards her 'days of presence' or does she physically have to be in the country for those days to count towards getting her citizenship?


I have inquired about this with an immigration lawyer, who told me that this is true and that i should keep any photos and receipts as proof. However, im having some doubts and found similar, but not quite exact information about this on Canada's immigration website?

This is the closest i could find: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

If someone could provide some guidance, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[forw.jane]

Good day everyone,

I am a Canadian citizen born in Ontario. I sponsored my wife and she arrived in canada as a permanent residence in september of 2021.

My wife and i are currently abroad and have been for some months on extended holidays.

My question is, do the days she spends with me outside of canada count towards her 'days of presence' or does she physically have to be in the country for those days to count towards getting her citizenship?


I have inquired about this with an immigration lawyer, who told me that this is true and that i should keep any photos and receipts as proof. However, im having some doubts and found similar, but not quite exact information about this on Canada's immigration website?

This is the closest i could find: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

If someone could provide some guidance, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

No one in the group can suggest anything which can override the knowledge of an immigration lawyer. Also the link clearly says - Your spouse or common-law partner needs to be a Canadian citizen, which you are.

 

[ahaq12345]

No one in the group can suggest anything which can override the knowledge of an immigration lawyer. Also the link clearly says - Your spouse or common-law partner needs to be a Canadian citizen, which you are.

Thanks.

I was confused with the link as the question says "... towards my PERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS", not citizenship status.

So not sure if that's deemed as "the same thing" or not.

I guess a true confirmation would be done by an email or phone call to immigration Canada.

 

[scylla]

Thanks.

I was confused with the link as the question says "... towards my PERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS", not citizenship status.

So not sure if that's deemed as "the same thing" or not.

I guess a true confirmation would be done by an email or phone call to immigration Canada.

It's not the same thing. You are confusing the residency obligation rules for maintaining your PR status with the residency rules for qualifying for citizenship. They are quite different.

For the purposes of qualifying for citizenship, the days she spends with you outside of Canada do not count towards the residency requirement.

 

[forw.jane]

Thanks.

I was confused with the link as the question says "... towards my PERMANENT RESIDENT STATUS", not citizenship status.

So not sure if that's deemed as "the same thing" or not.

I guess a true confirmation would be done by an email or phone call to immigration Canada.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/grant/residence/calculate-physical-presence/calculating-residence-physical-presence-certain-family-members-canadian-citizen-permanent-resident-living-abroad.html

This should help you, basically the section - For applications received on or after October 11, 2017

 

[forw.jane]

It's not the same thing. You are confusing the residency obligation rules for maintaining your PR status with the residency rules for qualifying for citizenship. They are quite different.

For the purposes of qualifying for citizenship, the days she spends with you outside of Canada do not count towards the residency requirement.

@scylla I would like you to read the link I shared above. Looks like there are some nuances to it based on the year you submitting the application.

 

[ahaq12345]

"
For applications received on or after October 11, 2017
The following periods spent residing with the family member during the five-year period immediately before an application for citizenship may be counted:

• any day of residence outside Canada as a permanent resident is equivalent to one day of physical presence in Canada

Well, that answers my question.

Thanks!

 

[misuna]

You guys are reading that wrong. That's a subsection of the following
Calculation for applications received on or after June 11, 2015

Under subsection 5(1.01), a citizenship applicant can count time residing with their Canadian citizen spouse or common-law partner who was employed outside of Canada in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, the public service of Canada, or the public service of a province or territory, but not as a locally engaged staff, as time spent residing in Canada for the purpose of meeting the physical presence requirement for citizenship.

The spouse has to work for the Canadian government for it to count

 

[abbas.pasha]

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=370&top=5
Can I count any time I’ve spent outside of Canada toward the physical presence requirement when applying for citizenship?
You can count time spent outside Canada toward the physical presence requirement for citizenship if you

• were a permanent resident employed in or with the
  • Canadian Armed Forces
  • federal public administration
  • public service of a province or territory
• lived outside Canada with your Canadian spouse or common-law partner or permanent resident spouse, common-law partner, or parent who was employed in or with the
  • Canadian Armed Forces
  • federal public administration
  • public service of a province or territory

This doesn’t include employment as a locally engaged person.
The physical presence requirement only uses time after

• becoming a permanent resident
• your common-law relationship began (for calculating residence with a common-law partner)

 

[scylla]

@scylla I would like you to read the link I shared above. Looks like there are some nuances to it based on the year you submitting the application.

Nope. My statements still stands. You left out the most important part of what you quoted. You cannot quote rules partially. You need to read and quote the full rule.

In some instances, time outside Canada as a Crown servant or as the family member of a Crown servant can be counted towards the residence/physical presence requirement for a grant or resumption of citizenship. The time that can be counted and the way it is calculated depends on if the application was received before or after coming into force of changes to the Citizenship Act (the Act) through the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act on June 11, 2015.

Unless OP is outside of Canada as a Crown servant employee, the time does not count.

 

[scylla]

"
For applications received on or after October 11, 2017
The following periods spent residing with the family member during the five-year period immediately before an application for citizenship may be counted:

• any day of residence outside Canada as a permanent resident is equivalent to one day of physical presence in Canada

Well, that answers my question.

Thanks!

Again, you need to read the FULL rule. This does not apply to you unless you happen to be a crown servant who is stationed outside of Canada. Are you a crown servant who has been stationed outside of Canada?

 

[ahaq12345]

Again, you need to read the FULL rule. This does not apply to you unless you happen to be a crown servant who is stationed outside of Canada. Are you a crown servant who has been stationed outside of Canada?

Yes I see that. Thanks

Okay,

So it looks like the time she spends with me will not count towards citizenship requirements.

However, upon looking at the first link I posted, it seems that the days she is with me count towards the 730 days she needs to maintain her PR status.

Thanks

 

[scylla]

Yes I see that. Thanks

Okay,

So it looks like the time she spends with me will not count towards citizenship requirements.

However, upon looking at the first link I posted, it seems that the days she is with me count towards the 730 days she needs to maintain her PR status.

Thanks

Most likely but not guaranteed and it can somewhat depend on the circumstances. IRCC will sometimes apply the "who followed whom" rule. Sometimes they do and some they don't - it's a bit random unfortunately. The who followed whom rule is essentially about the primary driver for why you are outside of Canada. For example, let's say your spouse has a job outside of Canada and you decide to stay outside of Canada with them after they got PR, In this case, you followed your spouse and IRCC may not let you count the time. On the other hand, if you are the primary reason why you are oustide of Canada as the Canadian citizen (e.g., due to your employment), then you can definitely count the time. But again, IRCC doesn't always apply this rule.