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Crossing the border with expired PR card
- Thread starter Wait4life
- Start date
@Wait4life: Congrats for making it safely without being reported. Did you take the pedestrian bridge??? What time did you show up at the border??? Were they stern? Did they get into all kind of details or was it a more of an identity check?
And posts like this is one of the reasons when my MP comes a knocking looking for my vote , I’ll bring up the immigration department and people gaming the system . And people congratulating him for it .
I’m done with these forums , and giving help to GENUINE posters .
We can only hope the Conservatives get into power in 2019 and strictly enforce immigration laws in this country
Hopefully they’ll implement a form of ICE as in the USA
I’m done with these forums , and giving help to GENUINE posters .
We can only hope the Conservatives get into power in 2019 and strictly enforce immigration laws in this country
Hopefully they’ll implement a form of ICE as in the USA
What if you were removed from this country as a minor??? What if you had to look after your ailing parent in the home country and you were the only caretaker who could do the job??? What if you had a minor sibling back home and you were the only person who could take care of him until he reaches adulthood. It is very easy criticizing people without even knowing what circumstances they are in. They are not gaming the system they are fighting with their circumstances and hoping that someday they will live their lives as per their own wishes..... Don't say nasty things to anyone without even realizing what made them live outside Canada in despair. Not all of them are gaming the system....
I concur with your concerns about aiding, encouraging, or even just condoning ABUSING the system. Even from a strictly practical perspective, there is already enough fraud and deception and cheating going around to challenge the country's institutions and, indeed, to a rather ominous respect the very fabric of our society. Respect for the rule of law works both ways, and a just society depends on it working both ways, from within our government institutions and from within the populace.
The term "gaming the system" however tends to be a lot broader than outright abuse of the system. To a significant extent some gaming-the-system is part of the system. While, to a significant extent in the other direction, gaming-the-system involves engaging in fraud or otherwise outright abuse of the system. This is to say that NOT all gaming-the-system constitutes an abuse of the system.
Moreover, the way in which an individual recognizes the rules and how the system works, and then navigates the system to advance his or her objectives while at the same time deliberately avoiding potentially negative events or consequences, often constitutes gaming-the-system to some degree but can be staying well within the rules. Canada's immigration system, like the transportation system, the taxation system, and other aspects of life in Canada, actually incorporates a lot of this. AND NECESSARILY SO, RECOGNIZING THAT OTHERWISE THE RULES ARE PRONE TO DISPARATE AND UNJUST APPLICATION, and OTHERWISE PRONE TO BEING CRIPPLINGLY IMPRACTICAL or GROSSLY INEFFICIENT. If, for example, Canada attempted to strictly enforce driving speed limits, beyond being impossible to do so effectively (U.S. unsuccessfully tried in the late 70s and 80s) and the risk of paralyzing commuter travel, the populace would almost certainly (as it in effect does currently) impose its will and establish a de facto norm. Similarly in the realm of taxation and the exploitation of so-called "loopholes." That is now hard wired into the system. Political agendas to close all loopholes are either disingenuous rhetoric or idealistically naïve.
And likewise Canada's immigration system. In which there is always a tug-of-war of sorts between fashioning rules and enforcement which will, on one hand, facilitate immigration commensurate with Canadian policy and objectives (such as family unification, workforce reinforcement or expansion, refuge for persons in need of state protection, enhancement of educational and intellectual institutions, among others), while on the other hand allowing for reasonably effective enforcement to minimize fraud and other abuses. The PR Residency Obligation, for example, DELIBERATELY and AUTOMATICALLY allows a breach to be cured just by living in Canada UNLESS the PR has already been reported as inadmissible.
Thus, the current system intentionally allows for a great deal of flexibility.
Fraud, as in outright misrepresentation, is over the line. Manipulating the system without engaging in fraud is NOT over the line. That is, the system deliberately incorporates tolerance for some gaming-the-system.
In the last decade, plus some, partially in response to the 9/11/2001 attacks in the U.S., but probably in larger part due to the changing dynamics of global travel and migration, and the pressure of criminal as well as or even more so than terrorist threats, in conjunction with increasing numbers of undocumented immigrants (the world over), and increasing awareness of the extent to which Canada had become a ripe target for immigration fraud, border control and immigration controls have been greatly increased and enhanced. This has been greatly aided by technology enhancements.
Overall, while cheating is and always will be a problem, there is way, way less that is successful now than there was in the past.
The problem with the Conservatives' approach is an underlying anti-immigrant sentiment which allows them to adopt policies which are overreaching and excessive. One only need consider the adoption and implementation of policies and practices attendant the disastrous OB 407 in the processing of citizenship applications, in 2012. In their effort to interdict an alleged 500 to 4000 or so (a mere few thousand out of literally more than a million new citizens and applicants) who engaged in fraud in order to obtain a Canadian passport-of-convenience, the Harper government implemented an RQ program which nearly brought citizenship processing to a standstill and led to many TENS of THOUSANDS of qualified applicants getting stuck in a process that took over TWO YEARS, over THREE YEARS for many of them, and more than FOUR years for a rather large number, WITHOUT ANY JUST CAUSE. This is just one example among many. Another was the approach they employed to target marriage fraud, in effect trapping scores and scores in abusive relationships and punishing the victims so the government would be spared the burden of identifying actual fraud. A grossly unfair overreaching policy that undoubtedly resulted in egregious injustices.
It appears that the OP here may have been going over the line, OR maybe just engaging in overthinking the nuances in navigating the system, gaming-the-system like leveraging taxation loopholes, part of how the system is intended to work. Not really for us to judge. Individual participants here could reasonably decide to what extent they would provide information to assist the OP's plan.
The underlying attitude indicated is, to me, somewhat troublesome. BUT it should be remembered that once a person becomes a Canadian PR they are, in Canadian law, A CANADIAN. NOT a Foreign National. And the way the system works generally (as it should) leans in favour of allowing all Canadians, natural born citizens, naturalized citizens, AND PRs, the benefits of being a Canadian unless and until there is a just and reasonable FORMAL adjudication to revoke their status as a Canadian.
Settled immigrants who support Conservative parties in Canada remind me of poor people in the U.S. who support Republicans, in effect voting against their own interests.
Edit to Add Caveat/Caution: While a significant amount of what might be described as gaming-the-system can be done within the rules, and is not in itself cause to impose a penalty (like revocation of status), REMEMBER that appearances and impressions matter. If and when a PR is perceived by an officer, IRCC or CBSA, to be engaged in gaming-the-system, the extent of scrutiny and level of skepticism will almost certainly increase dramatically. AS IT SHOULD. Those who are gaming-the-system are far more likely to be engaging in misrepresentation or outright fraud, so IRCC and CBSA should and quite likely will approach such individuals with concern or suspicion, and tend to be more strict if not outright severe. To the extent there is implicit advice in my posts, despite my effort to provide information NOT advice, NOT gaming-the-system or doing anything which appears to be gaming-the-system is perhaps among my more common suggestions.
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