COPR and coronavirus
- Thread starter zeus89
- Start date
Completely agree. THere is no guarantee.
Please see my last two posts. I called immigration yesterday.
IRCC is clear that softlanding is not allowed at this time. CBSA is aware of this because I also had them on the phone.
No one confirmed that extensions were a guarantee. At no point has IRCC publicly communicated that extensions were a guarantee. Certain folks who have raised webforms have received reassuring emails but these were personal emails, not a global, public statement.
Here's my argument that softlandings are essential travel for people with CoPR issued prior to March 18 and who are able to do a softlanding.***Long Post Alert***
Just so we can decide with eyes open, rather than wishful thinking! (and most likely my take below is incorrect...)
First - One has all the legal rights to leave the country at will, at any time. No questions. Do we want to be all boastful about it at the POE? Do we want to challenge the border officer? Or... that is the point of my comments below.
Not a lawyer and I think your reference here is perhaps to the letter of the rule. A border officer or immigration authorities may or may not be fully satisfied. And if one is unhappy, surely you can appeal the decision etc.
Will you want to do that? Risk it? Will one be able to?..those are the considerations we must mull over deeply, before even suggesting such a course of soft landing, in these times where Canada (like every country) is spending billions of dollars to minimize COVID 19.
Coming back to the letter or rule noticed the specific section of current responses to CoPR extension request
@CitImmCanada (IRCC)
1/4 Hi. We are currently reviewing requests from clients who are out of the country and have received a valid CoPR or who have an expired CoPR who are now ready to move to Canada permanently. We expect that next steps will be provided in the next few weeks.
2/4 Please wait to receive confirmation from IRCC that your CoPR has been extended and that you are now able to travel with documents the department will identify.
3/4 Please note that only those ready to live and settle in Canada and able to quarantine for 14 days immediately upon arrival will be allowed to travel to the country.
4/4 Travel for temporary stay, including strictly to finalize an application, will not be permitted at this time.
And then there is the rule book - I agree the examples below do not include CoPR confirmation. Is CoPR driven landing optional at this time? Could we seek extension of CoPR? Has Canada offered not to penalise for not traveling at this time (as of today 7 July 2020)?
As per the travel exemptions page of the IRCC's website, essential travel is defined as "travel for reasons that are non-discretionary and non-optional. The emergency orders under the Quarantine Act do not allow people to travel to Canada for optional or discretionary reasons, such as for tourism, recreation or entertainment."
So yes you are correct, there is interpretation and subjective conclusion, which remains in the eyes of the beholder!You and I in our vested interest would like to read the below as "My landing and confirmation of PR is essential". Let us remember the Officer at the border has the same subjective space to conclude if we a traveler is only landing and intends to return back after the temporary 14d quarantine - while the CoPR could have been extended, Canadian Govt has repeatedly written in thousands of letters that your application will not be denied due to your inability to travel - then it is NON-Essential.
Personally I truly dearly wish, the officer sees it differently, but if not
a) can't see a fault with that officer's decisionb) even if I did - what are my recourses? Appeal to IRCC? From where - once I am back in home country? Or sue them from overseas?
Well all of those options are fairly given by one of the FAIREST countries in the world - Canada. So yes - you could do that.
Equally some might decide to be safe, understand the spirit of the rule, comprehend why CBSA has asked you not even to flagpole.
Where even flagpoling is deemed risky and discouraged
So .. the decision and beliefs are entirely our own. But we Canadians like to be respectful - no wonder we say sorry even when someone else has erred).
- these are people living in Canada, safer that India or many other countries,
- with far better medical facilities).
- And still - CBSA is trying to protect, minimise and serve the larger greater good!
Wish every single person here the very best of wise, decision making!
(and if you read this far - you are a brave one, thank you!)
1. One can travel if CoPR was issued prior to March 18 (exempt of travel ban) AND they travel is essential.
2. Esssential travel is defined as "travel for reasons that are non-discretionary and non-optional. The emergency orders under the Quarantine Act do not allow people to travel to Canada for optional or discretionary reasons, such as for tourism, recreation or entertainment".
2. Softlandings are not encouraged but they are not prohibited either since you have the right to move freely.
2. Nowhere do they explicitly and publicly state that softlandings are non-essential travel, except the tweets of IRCC of July 3 which imply that it is non-essential. Not sure what the legal value of tweets is.. who knows if the people who post on behalf of IRCC have the authority to bind the whole IRCC through the posts.
3. Argument that softlandings are non-essential travels is contradicted by the fact that extensions are not guaranteed (especially for those living in countries with no travel ban in place and with regular flights to Canada).
4. Therefore: one would HAVE TO travel and activate their PR before the deadline if they don't want to lose their rights = not optional and not discretionary reason, and clearly not for recreation tourism or entertainment.
It would be completely different if there was a public statement or a global email containing updated guidelines that explicitly state that softlandings are prohibited or are considered as non-essential.
I don't know how anyone can challenge that logic but if you can, please respond.
I have and they have very clearly written, don't send us any ready to travel webform, we write to you with the best steps when we are ready.
Let me overthink and add one more fact. What if there are delays in issuing PR cards? How many people got the actual PR card after March 2020? There is a lot of risk involved as things are not working as they used to be. You should not only think of doing landing for paper work but should also consider getting a PR card in hand. If for some reason there are delays in getting the PR card then you can argue with IRCC better in Canada than doing it from outside Canada after doing your soft landing procedure. We should do what is being instructed by IRCC no matter if it is their twitter handle as this is not the time for arguing over things to make them favourable from your perspective.
You should do it now and mention in your web form that -
Air India has resumed evacuation flights operated under the Vande Bharat Mission from India to Canada from June onward. Thus, I am writing to inform that we are now interested in travelling to Canada. We request you to please consider our request to provide extension on our expired COPR and PRV documents. Please advise us on the next steps to follow.
I completely agree, I believe every one from India should send a ready to travel webform.
Right so I need to get married to a Canadian/US national in the next few days to be eligible to fly in one of these flights lol
If they don't issue the PR card you can contact the embassy to get a travel document.
I'm not saying we shouldn't do as instructed, but the instructions are confusing contradictory and laconic.
hahah this is expected from them. These are Repatriation flights are only operating to evacuate foreign nationals, Canadian Citizens and PR holders. They might not even know what CoPR stands for lol. VB flights are also Repatriation flights for evacuating Indians from abroad but they are making money by allowing to onboard people from India to make money both ways.