Control of stamps in pasport during oath ceremony
- Thread starter Juela
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I would clarify the response: it is very unlikely that an IRCC official will examine stamps in the citizenship candidate's passport at the oath ceremony. It is not part of the routine at oath ceremonies, not at all. Qualified applicants should not worry about this at all.Juela said:
Many reports (which is the same as my personal experience) describe presenting only the PR card, to be surrendered at the oath ceremony, despite instructions to bring other documents such as passports. Thus, there are many reports that not even the bio pages in passports are glanced at let alone examined, let alone the pages containing stamps.
But it can happen. Officials at the oath ceremony can examine the citizenship-candidate's passport, including pages containing stamps. However, actual reports of this happening are very rare and I have not seen any recent ones.
Known instances of this appear to be individuals flagged for additional screening prior to actually taking the oath. The few known instances of this have usually involved a PR abroad returning just in time to attend the oath ceremony. One example I can recall more in particular involved an individual who was absent from Canada long enough since applying for that individual to be flagged in FOSS (during a PoE examination when the individual was returning to Canada just a couple days before the scheduled oath) due to concerns about a potential PR Residency Obligation breach. This was obviously a person whose citizenship application took more than two years to process.
I should note, too, that I have not seen reports of this since before the Liberals formed the government, whereas in contrast it was clear that under Kenney and Alexander (as Ministers of CIC when Harper was PM) there was more scrutiny of citizenship applicants even after they were approved for a grant of citizenship (upon approval, the "applicant" for citizenship becomes a citizenship candidate) . . . for example, in those days, some individuals were denied the grant of citizenship at the oath ceremony if proctors determined the individual failed to say the oath out loud, and some individuals arrived at the scheduled ceremony only to be handed RQ not citizenship (albeit this too was very rare).
So it is nothing any qualified applicant/candidate needs to worry about.
(Note, for example, I have not seen any report suggesting, for example, that any citizenship-candidate was denied taking the oath because of a recent return to Canada indicating perhaps the individual was residing abroad and therefore could not meet the current requirement to intend-to-continue-residing-in-Canada, which if the person is living abroad is impossible to meet, it being impossible to intend to continue doing something one is not currently doing. But this may be because no one is testing the extent to which the current government might be enforcing this requirement; in other words, testing this is not recommended.)
In my experience during my oath,They only took my PR card. That's it. They didn't look for any IDs or even my passport.Juela said:
Yes rare cases the process may vary but the OP should not be scared. Cause when you know there is something that can go wrong then your mind will think about at it be worried or concerned. This passport check probably happens 1 in 100000 applicants.dpenabill said:
I am addressing this further because it illustrates why in some situations it is important to recognize the limits of observations based on what has high-probability versus low-probability.
To a large extent, the probabilities are close to irrelevant. Whether the statistical probabilities are one-in-five, or one-in-five-hundred, or one-in-fifty-thousand, what happens is fact-based, criteria driven, subject to some elements of chance and a narrow range of discretion, but largely fact-based, criteria driven. So the general probabilities do not matter. What matters is the specific situation, the particular circumstances and facts in the individual case.
In particular, in some situations, for some individuals, declarative statements based on high versus low-probability outcomes mask the real risks involved.
Individuals whose circumstances are outside the norm, outside the routine, deserve realistic information relevant to their situations rather than what amounts to empty assurances based on what happens to routine applicants in the course of routine processing.
Many times the nuances matter. The particular facts and circumstances almost always matter.
That noted, I deliberately couched my response in reference to qualified applicants.
Thing is, qualified applicants do NOT need to worry even if passports are examined attendant the oath ceremony. It is not as if the presence calculation is going to be re-evaluated.
Thus, the probability that a Citizenship official will examine the candidate's passport is largely inconsequential. For the qualified applicant, this is not a problem even if this happens. Nothing to worry about.
Moreover, whether someone from IRCC takes a closer look at the passport for only one in a thousand rather than, say, one in a hundred candidates, or even one in ten or a hundred thousand, it is not so much about probabilities generally but more about the particular circumstances for individual applicants/candidates, and whether those circumstances invite such an examination.
Thus, for example, the more relevant probability would be what percentage of candidates who had to postpone the oath have their passport examined? What percentage of candidates have their passport examined when they just returned to Canada in time to take the oath after being abroad for an extended time?
How things go in the processing of a citizenship application, from AOR to the oath, is NOT based on a lottery. It is NOT about a roll of the dice or any other game of chance. If and when someone at IRCC notices a reason to question, to look closer, that is what determines when something outside the routine happens. And this is fact-based, criteria driven, subject to some elements of chance, sure, and a narrow range of discretion, but largely fact-based, criteria driven.
Note, in particular, I made no effort to forecast any probabilities for the OP, who has had to postpone the oath ceremony twice, and who already was worried about IRCC closing the file.
I also referred to what has apparently triggered non-routine deviations at the oath ceremony in the past. While I did so cognizant of the OP's situation, there was not an attempt to apply the known instances of non-routine problems attendant oath ceremonies to the OP's situation. There are undoubtedly many other relevant factors, too many variables to attempt applying known instances to the OP's circumstances.
That said, the OP's situation is different than the vast majority of others scheduled for the oath, considering that this individual had to postpone the oath due to being outside Canada:
Much of which is to say I do not concur with your assurance . . . ". . . but the OP should not be scared." Not because I think the OP has reason to be scared. Maybe not. Probably not. But rather because I do NOT know if the OP has reason to be scared. My sense is that no one else in the forum can know this either.
Rather I made a concerted effort to offer information rather than conclusions, rather than empty assurances or exaggerated alarm, so that the OP would be aware of both the usual routine and the potential for a non-routine occurrence, recognizing that the OP is the person in a far better position to assess whether there is actual cause to worry or not.
My guess, emphasis on guess (since there are so many potentially influential but unknown other factors), is that since the oath has been re-scheduled, apparently again after a previous re-scheduling, and the OP has, likewise apparently, obtained a PR TD in order to return to Canada from abroad, these are a good indicator all is well, not a problem stirring, that IRCC has assessed and cleared the OP to proceed to the oath. But I am also acutely aware that the vast majority of applicants/candidates have no reason worry even if passports are examined attendant the oath . . . which might suggest that the OP's concern is rooted in a passport containing stamps the OP apprehends might cause problems if checked.
To a large extent, the probabilities are close to irrelevant. Whether the statistical probabilities are one-in-five, or one-in-five-hundred, or one-in-fifty-thousand, what happens is fact-based, criteria driven, subject to some elements of chance and a narrow range of discretion, but largely fact-based, criteria driven. So the general probabilities do not matter. What matters is the specific situation, the particular circumstances and facts in the individual case.
In particular, in some situations, for some individuals, declarative statements based on high versus low-probability outcomes mask the real risks involved.
Individuals whose circumstances are outside the norm, outside the routine, deserve realistic information relevant to their situations rather than what amounts to empty assurances based on what happens to routine applicants in the course of routine processing.
Many times the nuances matter. The particular facts and circumstances almost always matter.
I not only stated: "Qualified applicants should not worry about this at all," and that the routine only involves a PR card check (and surrender), I reiterated . . . "So it is nothing any qualified applicant/candidate needs to worry about."chikloo said:
That noted, I deliberately couched my response in reference to qualified applicants.
Thing is, qualified applicants do NOT need to worry even if passports are examined attendant the oath ceremony. It is not as if the presence calculation is going to be re-evaluated.
Thus, the probability that a Citizenship official will examine the candidate's passport is largely inconsequential. For the qualified applicant, this is not a problem even if this happens. Nothing to worry about.
Moreover, whether someone from IRCC takes a closer look at the passport for only one in a thousand rather than, say, one in a hundred candidates, or even one in ten or a hundred thousand, it is not so much about probabilities generally but more about the particular circumstances for individual applicants/candidates, and whether those circumstances invite such an examination.
Thus, for example, the more relevant probability would be what percentage of candidates who had to postpone the oath have their passport examined? What percentage of candidates have their passport examined when they just returned to Canada in time to take the oath after being abroad for an extended time?
How things go in the processing of a citizenship application, from AOR to the oath, is NOT based on a lottery. It is NOT about a roll of the dice or any other game of chance. If and when someone at IRCC notices a reason to question, to look closer, that is what determines when something outside the routine happens. And this is fact-based, criteria driven, subject to some elements of chance, sure, and a narrow range of discretion, but largely fact-based, criteria driven.
Note, in particular, I made no effort to forecast any probabilities for the OP, who has had to postpone the oath ceremony twice, and who already was worried about IRCC closing the file.
Juela said:
I also referred to what has apparently triggered non-routine deviations at the oath ceremony in the past. While I did so cognizant of the OP's situation, there was not an attempt to apply the known instances of non-routine problems attendant oath ceremonies to the OP's situation. There are undoubtedly many other relevant factors, too many variables to attempt applying known instances to the OP's circumstances.
That said, the OP's situation is different than the vast majority of others scheduled for the oath, considering that this individual had to postpone the oath due to being outside Canada:
Juela said:Hello
Can anybody tell me about the validity of travel document.
Im outside canada now and i need a travel document to come back(pr card sent for renew but not received yet)
Thanks in advance
Juela said:
Much of which is to say I do not concur with your assurance . . . ". . . but the OP should not be scared." Not because I think the OP has reason to be scared. Maybe not. Probably not. But rather because I do NOT know if the OP has reason to be scared. My sense is that no one else in the forum can know this either.
Rather I made a concerted effort to offer information rather than conclusions, rather than empty assurances or exaggerated alarm, so that the OP would be aware of both the usual routine and the potential for a non-routine occurrence, recognizing that the OP is the person in a far better position to assess whether there is actual cause to worry or not.
My guess, emphasis on guess (since there are so many potentially influential but unknown other factors), is that since the oath has been re-scheduled, apparently again after a previous re-scheduling, and the OP has, likewise apparently, obtained a PR TD in order to return to Canada from abroad, these are a good indicator all is well, not a problem stirring, that IRCC has assessed and cleared the OP to proceed to the oath. But I am also acutely aware that the vast majority of applicants/candidates have no reason worry even if passports are examined attendant the oath . . . which might suggest that the OP's concern is rooted in a passport containing stamps the OP apprehends might cause problems if checked.