Conditional PR - Please help

[coldwater]

I submitted my application for spousal sponsorship in May of 2013 and I didn't know my husband for more than 2 years prior to marriage neither do we have a child together so I know I come under the "conditional PR" rule that they have recently introduced. But here's the thing, neither me nor my husband were aware of this rule until today when one of my friends who is applying for her husband needed some help with her application and I went on to the Canadian Immigration website where I read about the 2 year clause. Now my husband received his PR status sometime in October of 2013 and landed in Canada on February 1, 2014. He stayed for about 2 weeks and then flew back to Australia where he is finishing up his studies.

When my husband received his PR status he received some informational documents regarding what to do once he arrives in Canada, etc. but none of this documents mentioned that he needed to stay with his sponsor for 2 years. There's no mention of the word "Conditional" altogether. It just says that you have been granted Permanent residence not "Conditional" Permanent residence. Also, when he made his entry to Canada he told the Immigration officer that he is only here for a short period and plans to return to Australia for study purposes and that he will be making his permanent move early next year. The Immigration Officer didn't raise any objections or mentioned to him of the "conditional pr" law.

We are worried as to what we should do now. I know they grant some exceptions but I am afraid to call them and ask for an exception after 4 months of living apart.
Our relationship is genuine. We talk at least 3 times daily and he is either planning to make a visit to Canada in September to celebrate my birthday or take me to Bali Last year he arranged a trip for both of us to Thailand for my birthday

Please advise us as to what we should do!

Thanks!

 

[MaxLet]

hi! first of all we gotta know if you indeed fall under condition 51.
you can check your husband's COPR (confirmation of permanent residence)
read it carefully, you will find that at some point it says: condition: (a number)
ex. mine says condition: 0
if u do have the condition 51, then we can start helping you from there.
dont freak out yet

 

[sammystorm19]

hi! first of all we gotta know if you indeed fall under condition 51.
you can check your husband's COPR (confirmation of permanent residence)
read it carefully, you will find that at some point it says: condition: (a number)
ex. mine says condition: 0
if u do have the condition 51, then we can start helping you from there.
dont freak out yet

They would fall under condition 51 as they applied after October 2012 and they have no kids together.

 

[coldwater]

So I had a look at my husband's COPR and under Conditions it says "00: NONE"

So does that mean that we are in the clear as far as this new conditional law is concerned?

Thanks!

 

[Rob_TO]

So I had a look at my husband's COPR and under Conditions it says "00: NONE"

So does that mean that we are in the clear as far as this new conditional law is concerned?

Thanks!

Yes it looks like you are in the clear.

CIC has made mistakes before, by either giving condition 51 to people who weren't supposed to have it... or in your case not including it when you were supposed to. This one seems to be in your favour, so you shouldn't need to worry.

 

[MaxLet]

They would fall under condition 51 as they applied after October 2012 and they have no kids together.

not necesarily. cuz they applied after october 2012 and they dont have kids. op says they didnt date much before marriage but we dont know how long have they been in a relationship in total.

"common-law or conjugal partners in a relationship of two years or less with their sponsor and who have no children in common with their sponsor at the time they submit their sponsorship application."

it doesnt say if before or after marriage.
maybe dont dissmiss my opinion before having all info in hand?

So I had a look at my husband's COPR and under Conditions it says "00: NONE"

So does that mean that we are in the clear as far as this new conditional law is concerned?

Thanks!

great! you are clear... i was concerned about it too. i was only 1 1/2 married when i apply, but had been in common law for 3 years total at that time. i wasnt sure if they will just consider mariage.
seems like they count all the time that you can proof in the relatinship, regardless of if you are married or only commonlaw.

 

[canvis2006]

i think the part about not living together, conditional PR is more to do with the marriage fraud, Marriage of Convenience, etc.

if husband is abroad for studies, you don't need to worry or do anything. It does not concern you or your spouse.

 

[coldwater]

Thanks everyone for your replies! so relieved now... crisis averted

 

[steerpike]

You got lucky. People who do have condition 51 are also not given any extra documentation explaining they have to conform their lives to the whims of CIC for another 2 years. The VO at our landing even said directly to our faces "go ahead and go overseas to study". I really don't think they even realize how brutal the wording of it is. I think they have no intention of using it against genuine couples, regardless of living arrangements. I think they will use it as a way to take back PRs from very obvious cases of MoC. (if they even do that).

 

[Rob_TO]

I think they have no intention of using it against genuine couples, regardless of living arrangements. I think they will use it as a way to take back PRs from very obvious cases of MoC. (if they even do that).

The problem is, it's up to CIC to determine if you are a "genuine couple" or not. Just stating and showing proofs you are a genuine couple, obviously is not good enough in many cases, as look how many "genuine couples" get refused for PR in the first place.

Condition 51 makes no allowance for living apart if you maintain the relationship. The wording is very simple, and states a couple must cohabit for 2 years... with no excuses not to. Remember one of the more common types of PR fraud is when the sponsor is paid by applicant. In this case they will continue the fraud, including showing fake proofs of being a genuine couple, right out until the 2 years is up.

So my advice for anyone with condition 51, is to simply follow the rule as good as you can. To those that still decide to live apart, well in the end it may be fine, but need to prepare for the chance that CIC will open an investigation into the relationship and who knows what that will entail. Until we see some actual cases happening, it's impossible to say.

 

[maronvomra]

I am sorry that I am a bit confused now after reading this thread. I sponsored outland for my wife and she got her PR and will land in 2 months in August.

Now I didn't remember seeing 51 in her COPR but lets say its there which it should be so does that mean
- we have to live together for 2 yrs in a row; like cant we go on a vacation together to Bangladesh/US/anywhere outside Canada?
- or is it if two of us go together then ok but if its only me/her went back home for 2/3 weeks leaving other in Canada then its a problem?

Thanks

 

[Rob_TO]

I am sorry that I am a bit confused now after reading this thread. I sponsored outland for my wife and she got her PR and will land in 2 months in August.

Now I didn't remember seeing 51 in her COPR but lets say its there which it should be so does that mean
- we have to live together for 2 yrs in a row; like cant we go on a vacation together to Bangladesh/US/anywhere outside Canada?
- or is it if two of us go together then ok but if its only me/her went back home for 2/3 weeks leaving other in Canada then its a problem?

Thanks

You only have to worry about cohabitation. So vacations apart, or 1 spouse leaving for a while to visit family or traveling for work or whatever, should not matter.

It's when the 2 spouses actually reside at 2 separate addresses for extended times, could there be a problem if CIC learns of it.

 

[maronvomra]

You only have to worry about cohabitation. So vacations apart, or 1 spouse leaving for a while to visit family or traveling for work or whatever, should not matter.

It's when the 2 spouses actually reside at 2 separate addresses for extended times, could there be a problem if CIC learns of it.

that's not gonna happen... thanks Rob_TO.

 

[steerpike]

The problem is, it's up to CIC to determine if you are a "genuine couple" or not. Just stating and showing proofs you are a genuine couple, obviously is not good enough in many cases, as look how many "genuine couples" get refused for PR in the first place.

Condition 51 makes no allowance for living apart if you maintain the relationship. The wording is very simple, and states a couple must cohabit for 2 years... with no excuses not to.

Condition 51 doesn't care if you are a "genuine couple". It cares that you cohabit for 2 years. Theres nothing in the wording about being a genuine couple. The wording is strictly about forcing a particular lifestyle on the couple for an additional 2 years.

You could, theoretically, be the most genuine couple in the world, prove it to everyone beyond any reasonable doubt, and STILL be in violation of Cond 51 and lose your PR 2 years after it was granted.

For inland applicants, they will be ready to apply for citizenship on the day their Cond 51 expires. Meaning for their entire period of time as a PR they will be under that bizarre condition.

We dont require PRs who are sponsored under a provincial nomination to stay in that province for 2 years.

We dont require PRs who are sponsored under a certain job classication to stay in that job for 2 years.

We dont require married couples who are both Canadians to live together for 2 years before we recognize their marriage as being legal.

We dont even require "Permanent Residents" to reside permanently in Canada for 2 years straight with no interruptions.

Cond 51 is trying to address a problem, fair enough, but the way it is worded is completely insane and totally unlike anything else in immigration law or Canadaian law in general. The law simply doesn't put anywhere near that kind of long term restriction on PRs of any other class for any reason.

 

[Rob_TO]

You could, theoretically, be the most genuine couple in the world, prove it to everyone beyond any reasonable doubt, and STILL be in violation of Cond 51 and lose your PR 2 years after it was granted.

Yes exactly, and that's why until we know exactly how CIC will be enforcing this, you can't simply tell people "don't worry" if they don't live together as conditional PR as long as the relationship is genuine. We MAY see CIC only use condition 51 when sponsors have reported relationship breakdowns... but we just don't know yet.

For inland applicants, they will be ready to apply for citizenship on the day their Cond 51 expires. Meaning for their entire period of time as a PR they will be under that bizarre condition.

Under current rules and assuming they didn't leave Canada during those entire 2 years, then yes.

However with proposed citizenship changes coming soon, they could be eliminating the time before PR counting 1/2 time to citizenship, and will increase time to 4 years in Canada only AFTER getting PR before you can apply.