Conditional Permanent Residency

[Jamesdavid3]

I think a lot of people including myself that do complain about the 51 rule is that after all this, you still feel as though your not a Permanent Resident and your still part of some process being watched and examined..

A perfect example is that after finally getting the Conditional PR you still have to live together, yes that's acceptable and makes sense because of the rule.

However on the rare occasion what If I want to Study or work somewhere else which my partner cant commit too....In NORMAL circumstances in relationships you can still be together as a COUPLE but live apart, no matter how far the distance... But in this CASE were still RESTRICTED to living together for a further 2 years because of that rule and because of that you can still miss out on Job offers, Education etc. It sounds like a never ending story..

I want the freedom after the 2nd stage of approval and once I have my PR card not to worry about any of this, I want to enter and leave
Canada as many times as I want with and without my partner but yet, for the next 2 years ill still be watched like a hawk and asked each time when I enter Canada..."Where is your common law partner" etc

That has to make sense to someone.

 

[Ponga]

There has to be something in place to at least investigate those that CIC and/or CBSA suspect of non-compliance. Otherwise, that would imply that the Condition 51 is merely enforced only if the sponsor reports the separation.

Otherwise, people like `you know who', will be able to follow through with their plan to scam CIC.

 

[keesio]

I do wonder if CIC will be informing CBSA of this condition - let's say a new PR with condition 51 stays out of the country for 8 months and returns to Canada. Obviously the CBSA will see that this person has been out of Canada for 8 months. Will the CBSA also see in their system that this person has condition 51 and that this person should not have been outside Canada without their sponsor for that long? Will they ask questions, such as "was your sponsor with you while you were out of Canada for 8 months?"


There's been a few people who asked that on the forum. "Catching" some couples not cohabiting in Canada would probably require time and resources CIC is not willing to spend, and I agree they're just going to wait for sponsors reporting it to CIC when their relationship breaks down. But I wonder if CIC will be informing CBSA so that the CBSA can flag people who are out of the country for very long periods of time.

From what I have read, CIC and CBSA (or any two different government departments really), do not communicate and share information well unless there is a "push" from somewhere. That is why so many PRs who violate their RO are allowed back into Canada, even if they disclose this information to the border official, and can "lay low" without CIC's knowledge until they meet their RO.

 

[Ponga]

I think a lot of people including myself that do complain about the 51 rule is that after all this, you still feel as though your not a Permanent Resident and your still part of some process being watched and examined..

A perfect example is that after finally getting the Conditional PR you still have to live together, yes that's acceptable and makes sense because of the rule.

However on the rare occasion what If I want to Study or work somewhere else which my partner cant commit too....In NORMAL circumstances in relationships you can still be together as a COUPLE but live apart, no matter how far the distance... But in this CASE were still RESTRICTED to living together for a further 2 years because of that rule and because of that you can still miss out on Job offers, Education etc. It sounds like a never ending story..

I want the freedom after the 2nd stage of approval and once I have my PR card not to worry about any of this, I want to enter and leave
Canada as many times as I want with and without my partner but yet, for the next 2 years ill still be watched like a hawk and asked each time when I enter Canada..."Where is your common law partner" etc

That has to make sense to someone.

CIC WANTS something different; for you to follow the rules of Condition 51, whether you like it (or want it) or not.

 

[Rob_TO]

I worried about it for a bit (my wife has condition 51 and I do travel on business a lot)

Yes in your case it should be a non-issue. In more extreme cases, imagine a conditional PR (or their spouse) deciding to go back to school to finish a degree, or needing to work on a project for work in another city, and needing to live apart for a full year. In that case there is a bit more cause for concern.

I do wonder if CIC will be informing CBSA of this condition - let's say a new PR with condition 51 stays out of the country for 8 months and returns to Canada. Obviously the CBSA will see that this person has been out of Canada for 8 months. Will the CBSA also see in their system that this person has condition 51 and that this person should not have been outside Canada without their sponsor for that long? Will they ask questions, such as "was your sponsor with you while you were out of Canada for 8 months?"

There's been a few people who asked that on the forum. "Catching" some couples not cohabiting in Canada would probably require time and resources CIC is not willing to spend, and I agree they're just going to wait for sponsors reporting it to CIC when their relationship breaks down. But I wonder if CIC will be informing CBSA so that the CBSA can flag people who are out of the country for very long periods of time.

Yes CBSA will be involved. Remember this rule is not just to catch cases where couples split up, it's also used to catch fraudulent marriages where a sponsor is paid to marry/sponsor someone to Canada as a purely business transaction. In these cases there will be no reporting by the sponsor to CIC since the sponsor is in on the scam. This kind of fraud is quite common from some regions.

So CBSA officers will be able to easily see if a PR is conditional or not, and will be able to determine if PR has been cohabiting with their sponsor by a series of simple questions. As to if they choose to pursue this kind of info to conditional PRs returning to Canada, is anyone's guess.

Read here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2012/ob480.asp
The role of the Canada Border Services Agency is to take enforcement action in cases of non-compliance.

The sponsored spouse or partner must provide evidence of their compliance with the condition if an officer requests such evidence because they have reason to believe that the sponsored person is not complying or has not complied with the condition (for example, when a tip is received or a CIC or a CBSA officer has information indicating non-compliance

 

[keesio]

I want the freedom after the 2nd stage of approval and once I have my PR card not to worry about any of this, I want to enter and leave
Canada as many times as I want with and without my partner but yet, for the next 2 years ill still be watched like a hawk and asked each time when I enter Canada..."Where is your common law partner" etc

That has to make sense to someone.

It makes perfect sense. But I'm sure you will agree that all it takes is some rotten apples to spoil the whole bunch. Just takes one to ruin it for all. It's why people in Ontario have to wait 3 months and stay 5/6 months in Ontario on first landing to get and maintain their provincial health care while other provinces offer it to you right away. Or why we have to provide so much evidence for a PR application. Or why some visa offices take longer than others.

 

[screech339]

I do wonder if CIC will be informing CBSA of this condition - let's say a new PR with condition 51 stays out of the country for 8 months and returns to Canada. Obviously the CBSA will see that this person has been out of Canada for 8 months. Will the CBSA also see in their system that this person has condition 51 and that this person should not have been outside Canada without their sponsor for that long? Will they ask questions, such as "was your sponsor with you while you were out of Canada for 8 months?"


There's been a few people who asked that on the forum. "Catching" some couples not cohabiting in Canada would probably require time and resources CIC is not willing to spend, and I agree they're just going to wait for sponsors reporting it to CIC when their relationship breaks down. But I wonder if CIC will be informing CBSA so that the CBSA can flag people who are out of the country for very long periods of time.

If you are out of Canada for more than 6 months, you are technically not resident of Canada anymore. Thus it stand to reason for CBSA to report a conditional PR violating the conditional 51 to CIC if they stayed longer than 6 months.

Screech339

 

[rhcohen2014]

I want the freedom after the 2nd stage of approval and once I have my PR card not to worry about any of this, I want to enter and leave
Canada as many times as I want with and without my partner but yet, for the next 2 years ill still be watched like a hawk and asked each time when I enter Canada..."Where is your common law partner" etc

That has to make sense to someone.

um being approved for PR means exactly that... you are free to travel to and from canada without concern. the only concern is if you maintain residence outside of canada for an extended period of time.
i have been here for 2 months, and i've never felt like i'm being "watched like a hawk". CIC does not send undercover operatives to spy on those approved for PR to "catch them in the act" of something. Also, i have yet to receive any knocks on my door, letters in my mail or email, calls, or any other inkling that i can't live a normal and free life in canada. as a PR,i am free to get a job and travel and do whatever i want as long as i'm not breaking the law and putting others in harm. absolutely ridiculous to assume that's how canada treats their residents. Canada is a democratic, first world country. Accept it, and stop b*ching about rules that are in place for a reason. If you PLAN to be somewhere other than where you spouse is for 2 years, then PLAN to bring your spouse along, CHANGE YOUR PLAN so you can live life where your spouse currently is, or DON'T APPLY TO BE A PR UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO SETTLE IN CANADA. You have a choice, no matter what you believe... everything you do is a CHOICE!

seriously, if you let paranoia get the best of you, then you will be living a sad, paranoid life always "looking over your shoulder" because of some fear that you are going to get caught for living your life. perhaps if you weren't breaking the law, then you wouldn't need to always be fearful of the government coming after you.

 

[Jamesdavid3]

um being approved for PR means exactly that... you are free to travel to and from canada without concern. the only concern is if you maintain residence outside of canada for an extended period of time.
i have been here for 2 months, and i've never felt like i'm being "watched like a hawk". CIC does not send undercover operatives to spy on those approved for PR to "catch them in the act" of something. Also, i have yet to receive any knocks on my door, letters in my mail or email, calls, or any other inkling that i can't live a normal and free life in canada. as a PR,i am free to get a job and travel and do whatever i want as long as i'm not breaking the law and putting others in harm. absolutely ridiculous to assume that's how canada treats their residents. Canada is a democratic, first world country. Accept it, and stop b*ching about rules that are in place for a reason. If you PLAN to be somewhere other than where you spouse is for 2 years, then PLAN to bring your spouse along, CHANGE YOUR PLAN so you can live life where your spouse currently is, or DON'T APPLY TO BE A PR UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO SETTLE IN CANADA. You have a choice, no matter what you believe... everything you do is a CHOICE!

seriously, if you let paranoia get the best of you, then you will be living a sad, paranoid life always "looking over your shoulder" because of some fear that you are going to get caught for living your life. perhaps if you weren't breaking the law, then you wouldn't need to always be fearful of the government coming after you.

I have been in Canada for 3 years now, believe me I am more than "settled" and no laws have or are going to be broken.

 

[Ponga]

um being approved for PR means exactly that... you are free to travel to and from canada without concern. the only concern is if you maintain residence outside of canada for an extended period of time.
i have been here for 2 months, and i've never felt like i'm being "watched like a hawk". CIC does not send undercover operatives to spy on those approved for PR to "catch them in the act" of something. Also, i have yet to receive any knocks on my door, letters in my mail or email, calls, or any other inkling that i can't live a normal and free life in canada. as a PR,i am free to get a job and travel and do whatever i want as long as i'm not breaking the law and putting others in harm. absolutely ridiculous to assume that's how canada treats their residents. Canada is a democratic, first world country. Accept it, and stop b*ching about rules that are in place for a reason. If you PLAN to be somewhere other than where you spouse is for 2 years, then PLAN to bring your spouse along, CHANGE YOUR PLAN so you can live life where your spouse currently is, or DON'T APPLY TO BE A PR UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO SETTLE IN CANADA. You have a choice, no matter what you believe... everything you do is a CHOICE!

seriously, if you let paranoia get the best of you, then you will be living a sad, paranoid life always "looking over your shoulder" because of some fear that you are going to get caught for living your life. perhaps if you weren't breaking the law, then you wouldn't need to always be fearful of the government coming after you.

This member will likely have Condition 51, which doesn't make him happy.

 

[screech339]

I have been in Canada for 3 years now, believe me I am more than "settled" and no laws have or are going to be broken.

Ha ha ha. I got to laugh at that. "No laws have or are going to be broken" That's a laugh coming from you.

You are working illegally while out of status, buddy. You have been breaking the law since your IEC expired and still continue to work illegally to this day.

Screech339

 

[Jamesdavid3]

Ha ha ha. I got to laugh at that. "No laws have or are going to be broken" That's a laugh coming from you.

You are working illegally while out of status, buddy. You have been breaking the law since your IEC expired and still continue to work illegally to this day.

Screech339

I cant wait for the day I get my application approved and my work permit. Then I will be the one laughing as I would have been right all along.

 

[scylla]

I cant wait for the day I get my application approved and my work permit. Then I will be the one laughing as I would have been right all along.

I'm quite confident you'll get your application approved and the work permit. Not because what you're doing is legal (you're definitely working illegally) - but because CIC has difficulty tracking this. As we've seen here, it's a very small minority who are caught.

 

[screech339]

I'm quite confident you'll get your application approved and the work permit. Not because what you're doing is legal (you're definitely working illegally) - but because CIC has difficulty tracking this. As we've seen here, it's a very small minority who are caught.

He applied for a status of restoration. So you think that CIC is going to approve a IEC visa back? Not likely. He will likely be given a visitor status back. No work visa. So I look forward to what status CIC restored him at.

 

[screech339]

I cant wait for the day I get my application approved and my work permit. Then I will be the one laughing as I would have been right all along.

Once you actually get approved for OWP, only then can you legally work. It doesn't means that your illegal work while out of status was legal or legal in CIC's eyes or that you were right. It just means that you weren't caught.