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conditional permanent residence

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sarahelizabeth

Newbie
Dec 27, 2012
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My fiance (who is American) and I were planning on coming to live here in Canada. It makes the most sense for us right now. However, if our jobs change (I am currently in school, looking to change careers as soon as possible) and our situation leads us to living in the states, how would that be affected by the new rule? If it was before his two years was up?
 
I don't think it would matter. If you continue living together in the States, then your fiance can keep his PR. The cohabitation should count, no matter where it is in the world.
 
This below in bold, is a "cut and paste" from the CIC website - the "conditional permanent resident measure" applies to all spouses and partners, and simply states you must live together with your sponsor for two years..it doesn't say where.


.... the new conditional permanent residence measure for spouses and partners

Effective October 25, 2012, sponsored spouses or partners must now live together in a legitimate relationship with their sponsor for two years from the day they receive permanent residence status in Canada.

If you are a spouse or partner being sponsored to come to Canada, this applies to you if:

You are being sponsored by a permanent resident or Canadian citizen
You have been in a relationship for two years or less with your sponsor
You have no children in common
Your application was received on or after October 25, 2012
 
That's exactly right! Co-habitation even outside of Canada does count towards maintaining residency obligations, it simply does NOT count towards time required to apply for Citizenship in the future.
 
truesmile said:
That's exactly right! Co-habitation even outside of Canada does count towards maintaining residency obligations, it simply does NOT count towards time required to apply for Citizenship in the future.
Click to expand...

It only counts IF the PR is following the canadian on an assignment, but in that case the residency obligations are 2 out of 5 years, which is I believe something different than the question asked by the applicant here - referring to the new PR law where applicants and sponsor have to stay at least 2 years together to qualify for full PR after 2 years. I believe that the fact that the person is outside of Canada, but still with the sponsor should not play a role - because what CIC is trying to do is to avoid fake marriages - so as long as you are with your partner for the next 2 years you should be fine.

on top of that, you have to be in Canada 2 years out of 5 to maintain your PR status - so just make sure that you fit into both rules, as they are different!
Sweden
 
This does not apply to me.. but out of curiousity, I've always wondered how they track that...

If a spouse gets PR through a Canadian citizen and then the Canadian citizen goes somewhere and the spouse follows them on "assignment" (not sure exactly what that entails)... then how does CIC monitor that the PR is with their spouse in some other country... and how are the days counted and stuff for them to maintain PR... that seems like a lot of extra work for CIC to keep track of that... but they must or else people would be losing their PR...
 
Sweden said:
It only counts IF the PR is following the canadian on an assignment, but in that case the residency obligations are 2 out of 5 years, which is I believe something different than the question asked by the applicant here - referring to the new PR law where applicants and sponsor have to stay at least 2 years together to qualify for full PR after 2 years. I believe that the fact that the person is outside of Canada, but still with the sponsor should not play a role - because what CIC is trying to do is to avoid fake marriages - so as long as you are with your partner for the next 2 years you should be fine.

on top of that, you have to be in Canada 2 years out of 5 to maintain your PR status - so just make sure that you fit into both rules, as they are different!
Sweden
Click to expand...

I read the Appenix A on this http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA differently...
it seems to say if your spouse is a PR they have to be on assignment (Option 3), but if they are Canadian citizen (Option 1) it doesn't say there has to be an assignment.
 
IslandAnnie said:
I read the Appenix A on this http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA differently...
it seems to say if your spouse is a PR they have to be on assignment (Option 3), but if they are Canadian citizen (Option 1) it doesn't say there has to be an assignment.
Click to expand...

True - sorry my mistake, I explained too quickly! :-)

What I meant to say is that : the 2 years conditional PR rule is different than the "residency rule".

So if you have a conditional PR, you can be with your spouse anywhere ( or so it seems) and after 2 years together you will qualify for "full PR". that's based on the fact that you obtained your PR through spousal and CIC wants to see that the couple lasted at least 2 years.

Separate from that, there is the "2 out of 5 years" rule for ANY PR - conditional or full - needed in Canada to maintain the PR.... and in that case, either your follow your canadian spouse ( then it counts), but if it's a PR as you say the person itself needs to be sent out by a Canadian company etc ( in that case - it's not his choice to be out of Canada and put in jeopardy his PR, so it makes sense that the days outside of Canada count as well).

In the original question, it's the Canadian who would follow the future (american) PR in the US... so as long as they are together as a couple, the american citizen/PR of Canada will not loose his PR at 2 conditions: staying at least 2 years with his wife AND being 2 out of 5 years in Canada - both conditions apply, but in that case as she is Canadian, then it would help to fulfill both conditions at the same time...now - living with your spouse in his own country as a Canadian - not sure it would count as "accompanying the canadian spouse outside of Canada" - it seems a bit of a stretch ( although nothing in the CIC rule forbids it, but I think it would be subject to interpretation...).
Sweden
 
There have been cases about this. In one case the judge said that it had to be the PR who was accompanying or following his or her Canadian spouse outside the country. So for a couple where the Canadian got a job overseas and the spouse lived there too, this would count as part of the residency requirement; but for a couple where the PR spouse got a job overseas and the Canadian spouse was accompanying him or her, this would not count. However, in all the other cases I've seen, it did not matter who was accompanying whom - as long as the PR was living with the Canadian spouse overseas, the time together would count for the residency requirement.

And it is not CIC that keeps track of how long the PR has been in Canada and all that - generally the PR has to prove he or she has met the residency requirements. Of course, there have been many cases where people have been able to 'trick' the government.
 
Sweden said:
True - sorry my mistake, I explained too quickly! :-)

What I meant to say is that : the 2 years conditional PR rule is different than the "residency rule".

So if you have a conditional PR, you can be with your spouse anywhere ( or so it seems) and after 2 years together you will qualify for "full PR". that's based on the fact that you obtained your PR through spousal and CIC wants to see that the couple lasted at least 2 years.

Separate from that, there is the "2 out of 5 years" rule for ANY PR - conditional or full - needed in Canada to maintain the PR.... and in that case, either your follow your canadian spouse ( then it counts), but if it's a PR as you say the person itself needs to be sent out by a Canadian company etc ( in that case - it's not his choice to be out of Canada and put in jeopardy his PR, so it makes sense that the days outside of Canada count as well).

In the original question, it's the Canadian who would follow the future (american) PR in the US... so as long as they are together as a couple, the american citizen/PR of Canada will not loose his PR at 2 conditions: staying at least 2 years with his wife AND being 2 out of 5 years in Canada - both conditions apply, but in that case as she is Canadian, then it would help to fulfill both conditions at the same time...now - living with your spouse in his own country as a Canadian - not sure it would count as "accompanying the canadian spouse outside of Canada" - it seems a bit of a stretch ( although nothing in the CIC rule forbids it, but I think it would be subject to interpretation...).
Sweden
Click to expand...

Hej Sweden!

So let's say a sponsored person is approved, and receives a conditional PR, and has to fulfill his/her obligation to live with his/her sponsor for 2 years, before finally getting a "full PR".

So: does that mean that after 2 years since the approval, the CIC will send a letter, asking for proofs that the couples have been together in the past 2 years? Then once they are satisfied, a full PR is granted to the sponsored person?

So that means that within the next 2 years, the couple needs to collect documentary evidence of their togetherness then? Such as: photos, joint bills, joint accounts, etc...?
 
I have no idea as it's new... the only thing I know is what is written on the website

Enforcement and penalties

As a result of the introduction of conditional permanent residence, additional investigations may be undertaken in cases where there is reason to believe that the condition is not being met or has not been met. CIC plans to perform random assessments of the overall level of compliance on an ongoing basis.

The measure also provides another means for enforcement action in instances of marriage fraud, including issuing removal orders to fraudulent spouses on the basis of non-compliance. This could in turn lead to their removal from Canada.

I don't imagine that CIC will go and check on every spouse. But it might be wise to keep the proofs of a lease etc - but that should not be too difficult.

We'll see in the future how it plays out... as nobody who has applied after the 25th of October has gotten their PR yet ( at least that I'm aware off, looking at the october spreadsheet - there is one person who got the COPR in a little over 2 months, impressive! but they applied 23rd of October, so it doesn't apply to them).

Sweden
 
If they follow a process similar to the US, they will want proofs. The States has had the same type of "conditional" permanent resident class for spouses for quite a long time. When I got US greencard (I'm the Canadian, currently living with my spouse in the US for the past 5 years) it was conditional as we hadn't been married for two years.. after the term of the condition passed, we had to send an application (yes, with another fee) along with "proof" that our relationship had stayed intact and we were still living together. We had to send all the same types of proof of relationship documents that we sent for the original application (which are exactly the same ones we just sent with my husband's Canadian PR application)....bills, lease agreements/mortgage docs, pictures, etc, etc. (but of course, heavier on the proofs of co-mingling assets/lives rather than long distance communication). It will be interesting to see how Canada decides to process the "removal" of the conditions to PR. If I was under the new Conditional rules, I would certainly have a folder and for the next two years be collecting documents that CIC may want as proof.
 
MissDominica said:
... then how does CIC monitor that the PR is with their spouse in some other country... and how are the days counted and stuff for them to maintain PR... that seems like a lot of extra work for CIC to keep track of that... but they must or else people would be losing their PR...
Click to expand...

This rule was introduced to prevent "marriages of convenience" - where a person marries a Canadian citizen or PR for the sole purpose of acquiring a PR. If the sponsor complains to CIC about their spouse's intention (stays separately/has common-law relationship with someone else/divorces etc), it is at that point in time CIC would investigate and revoke the PR if necessary.
 
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