Complications with residency obligation and joining college. Pls help!!!

[GordonDavison]

Hi guys, so I landed in Canada and got my PR card back in December 4th 2009. It is expiring on December 4th 2014. I have completed about 2 months with my PR card so far. I am flying off to complete the 2 year obligation on October 1st, 2014, which is in 10 days, and will be joining a college in January 2nd, 2015.

My question is, am I still eligible to be admitted into college on January 2nd, 2015 as a PR seeing the fact that my PR has expired less than a month ago (December 4th, 2014) from the college registration date (January 2nd)? Because I really wanna get in as I have friends joining me as well.

Thanks a lot guys!!!



P/s - Also, to clarify. The lady with whom I'm dealing with at the college says I have to be admitted as an international student due to my PR card being expired at the time of registration (January 2nd). But from what I've read, some posts state otherwise. Just because my card is expired, does not mean I am not a PR of Canada.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.

 

[zardoz]

Hi guys, so I landed in Canada and got my PR card back in December 4th 2009. It is expiring on December 4th 2014. I have completed about 2 months with my PR card so far. I am flying off to complete the 2 year obligation on October 1st, 2014, which is in 10 days, and will be joining a college in January 2nd, 2015.

My question is, am I still eligible to be admitted into college on January 2nd, 2015 as a PR seeing the fact that my PR has expired less than a month ago (December 4th, 2014) from the college registration date (January 2nd)? Because I really wanna get in as I have friends joining me as well.

Thanks a lot guys!!!



P/s - Also, to clarify. The lady with whom I'm dealing with at the college says I have to be admitted as an international student due to my PR card being expired at the time of registration (January 2nd). But from what I've read, some posts state otherwise. Just because my card is expired, does not mean I am not a PR of Canada.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.

The expiry of your PR card is in no way related to YOUR status as a PR. The "lady" at the college is in error. You are still a PR until it is formally lost, you become a Canadian citizen, or you die. You may however have issues with CBSA related to your residency obligation noncompliance.

 

[FredCanada]

Hi

You do have one major concern and that is when you land in Canada with an expired PR card; there is a chance you might be reported for failing residency obligation. If you get in with a PR Card then your concerns about college admission begins.

The lady you have been speaking to at the college is in error as pointed by the previous poster. Firstly... to be an international student you need a student visa which you CANNOT get as you have PR status. Your COPR is proof of that and you are a PR until it is revoked or you become a citizen.

Best of luck

Fred

 

[GordonDavison]

The expiry of your PR card is in no way related to YOUR status as a PR. The "lady" at the college is in error. You are still a PR until it is formally lost, you become a Canadian citizen, or you die. You may however have issues with CBSA related to your residency obligation noncompliance.

Thank you so much for the clarification. Is it stated anywhere so it is easier for me to show the "lady" in charge as she is not accepting it. She insists that I am an international student as my visa is expired at time of registration (January 2nd, 2015). Any advice on me explaining this to her? Thanks in advance.

 

[GordonDavison]

Hi

You do have one major concern and that is when you land in Canada with an expired PR card; there is a chance you might be reported for failing residency obligation. If you get in with a PR Card then your concerns about college admission begins.

The lady you have been speaking to at the college is in error as pointed by the previous poster. Firstly... to be an international student you need a student visa which you CANNOT get as you have PR status. Your COPR is proof of that and you are a PR until it is revoked or you become a citizen.

Best of luck

Fred

Fred, I am landing two months before expiry. I am taking a chance at not getting reported.

 

[Leon]

I have heard that college students with expired PR cards often have problems but you will have to figure out yourself how you deal with it.

First, the PR "visa" is the visa you get before you land and it is a one time visa and is no longer valid after you have landed. After that, you have PR status which is not a visa and can not expire. To identify yourself as a PR, you do however have a PR card and the card can expire.

There is no law that states that you must have a valid PR card to live in Canada as a PR. The PR card came about in order to make it easier for CBSA to identify PR's at the border. However, due to function creep, many are now asking for PR card as a proof of your status even inside Canada such for college enrollment, drivers license, health care, even for job applications.

You can not be admitted as an international student because you are still a PR and you would therefore not be granted a study permit.

 

[GordonDavison]

I have heard that college students with expired PR cards often have problems but you will have to figure out yourself how you deal with it.

First, the PR "visa" is the visa you get before you land and it is a one time visa and is no longer valid after you have landed. After that, you have PR status which is not a visa and can not expire. To identify yourself as a PR, you do however have a PR card and the card can expire.

There is no law that states that you must have a valid PR card to live in Canada as a PR. The PR card came about in order to make it easier for CBSA to identify PR's at the border. However, due to function creep, many are now asking for PR card as a proof of your status even inside Canada such for college enrollment, drivers license, health care, even for job applications.

You can not be admitted as an international student because you are still a PR and you would therefore not be granted a study permit.

Do you have any personal advice on ways to deal with this? I'm planning on saying I haven't gotten around to renewing it.

Let me get this straight, even after my PR card expires, I am still considered a PR, and as a PR, I will not be granted a study permit, yes?
How do I end my status as a PR in order to apply for a study permit?


P/s Leon, if you look at a few posts earlier, zardoz mentioned the "lady" is at error. Is there anyway I can prove this to her?

 

[Leon]

Do you have any personal advice on ways to deal with this? I'm planning on saying I haven't gotten around to renewing it.

Let me get this straight, even after my PR card expires, I am still considered a PR, and as a PR, I will not be granted a study permit, yes?
How do I end my status as a PR in order to apply for a study permit?


P/s Leon, if you look at a few posts earlier, zardoz mentioned the "lady" is at error. Is there anyway I can prove this to her?

You can say that you didn't get around to renewing it because you didn't see that it was expiring. You can say that you have applied now but the processing time is 5 months. There is no way she can verify if you have applied or not and the processing time for renewals is really 5 months right now, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-card.asp

If she asks you again after 5 months, you can say they lost your application or it was delayed and you are working on it.

I do not know if there is any document from immigration that says black on white exactly what you need to show the lady that you are still a PR. There is an operational manual about PR cards here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/RESOURCES/manuals/enf/enf27-eng.pdf

On page 5 and 6, it explains the intent of the PR card as being meant for travel.

On page 12, it says:

5.2. General conditions for persons applying for a card

The requirement in A31(1) to provide permanent residents with a card was intended to
apply only to persons who became permanent residents after IRPA came into force.
Permanent residents who obtained their status under previous immigration legislation
may obtain the document upon application, as set out in the Regulations.

While the PR card is not a mandatory document within Canada, it is necessary should a
permanent resident travel outside Canada using a commercial transportation company.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, a permanent resident without a PR card
outside Canada is deemed to be a foreign national. Transportation companies that
screen persons boarding Canada-bound carriers require all passengers to be in
possession of one of the documents prescribed in R259

I hope that helps.

It is actually not easy to lose your PR status. You could leave Canada and re-enter and state at the border that you want to renounce your PR status because you do not meet the residency obligation. It will not be instant as they are required to give you 30 days to change your mind. Another option would be to leave after your card expires and apply for a travel document from outside Canada stating that you do not meet the RO. After officially losing your PR status, you can apply for a study permit. As any other international student, you would have to prove that you will not overstay in Canada, that you can support yourself and that you can pay your tuition which will be much higher for an international student than for a PR. You would not be allowed to work initially except on your campus but you can apply for an off campus work permit after 6 months of studying. This permit would allow you to work up to 20 hrs. a week during the semester and full time during holidays.

 

[GordonDavison]

You can say that you didn't get around to renewing it because you didn't see that it was expiring. You can say that you have applied now but the processing time is 5 months. There is no way she can verify if you have applied or not and the processing time for renewals is really 5 months right now.

If she asks you again after 5 months, you can say they lost your application or it was delayed and you are working on it.

I do not know if there is any document from immigration that says black on white exactly what you need to show the lady that you are still a PR.
On page 5 and 6, it explains the intent of the PR card as being meant for travel.

On page 12, it says:

I hope that helps.

It is actually not easy to lose your PR status. You could leave Canada and re-enter and state at the border that you want to renounce your PR status because you do not meet the residency obligation. It will not be instant as they are required to give you 30 days to change your mind. Another option would be to leave after your card expires and apply for a travel document from outside Canada stating that you do not meet the RO. After officially losing your PR status, you can apply for a study permit. As any other international student, you would have to prove that you will not overstay in Canada, that you can support yourself and that you can pay your tuition which will be much higher for an international student than for a PR. You would not be allowed to work initially except on your campus but you can apply for an off campus work permit after 6 months of studying. This permit would allow you to work up to 20 hrs. a week during the semester and full time during holidays.

Thank you Leon. I think I'll go with the no time to renew path.


What is the procedure for returning immigrants at the airport? What type of questions will the immigration officer ask?
As for avoiding getting reported at the airport, any advice on how to avoid getting reported?

 

[Leon]

Thank you Leon. I think I'll go with the no time to renew path.


What is the procedure for returning immigrants at the airport? What type of questions will the immigration officer ask?
As for avoiding getting reported at the airport, any advice on how to avoid getting reported?

They will ask you how long you were outside Canada for example and if they become aware that you don't meet the RO, they may want to report you. If you are fairly young and your parents moved you out of Canada while you were a minor, that is actually an acceptable reason and you could actually win an appeal if you got reported.

 

[GordonDavison]

They will ask you how long you were outside Canada for example and if they become aware that you don't meet the RO, they may want to report you. If you are fairly young and your parents moved you out of Canada while you were a minor, that is actually an acceptable reason and you could actually win an appeal if you got reported.

Thanks Leon. That was what happened in my case. Thanks a lot for the other replies too. Have a good day.