Clarity on the PR Process

[canadianwoman]

I suggest she apply through Manila. Outland, because she wants to travel. If she applies outland, she can still wait out the processing time in Canada as a visitor. It would be easier if you move back to Canada first before applying, because otherwise you will have to submit proof of your intention to return. The visa officer will see the proof of your income in the application. If you have significant savings or investments, I would include proof of that too.

 

[ehtobecanadian]

[quote author=Leon]
You say she has an expired passport from the Netherlands. Does she have dual citizenship and can she renew that passport? If she could, she is visa exempt and it would be easier for her to enter Canada.
[/quote]

She has dual citizenship, but unfortunately unless you live there for a year after you turn 18, you can’t renew. Given that she was a flight attendant and had ‘crew’ status, she never really considered much that having a Philippines passport could ever be an issue, so she didn’t consider renewing / retaining her Dutch citizenship.


[quote author=Leon]
If you apply outland and you want to apply right now, you could if you show a job offer, intentions to move to Canada when she gets her PR.
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Just so that I understand correctly – we need to show that we intend to move to Canada, but that we don’t intend to overstay a tourist visa? This seems counterintuitive to me. Unless the expectation is that you spend some time apart (which we obviously don’t want to do), then this somehow seems strange.

[quote author=Leon]
However, you could also apply in 2 months when you are in Canada and not have to show anything. If you apply outland, she is free to travel but a person even one who is visa exempt or who had a multiple entry visit visa can still be refused entry if immigration thinks they are a risk to overstay. However, not very common, especially if you are travelling together.
[/quote]

This is sort of what I was thinking from an Inland perspective, as it seems the most risk-free. It is funny how immigration could suspect you’re a risk to ‘overstay’ when you have a PR application in process – of course you will ‘overstay’ as you plan to live there. Although we will be traveling together, the intent of course would be to take a vacation from Canada to another country and back again, with no intention of leaving until the next vacation.

[quote author=Leon]
If it should happen, an outland application will continue to be processed and your wife can wait it out in some other country.
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Unfortunately this is a definite no. If there is any chance that she would need to ‘wait it out’ in another country and that we would be separated, I would rather just go work elsewhere (perhaps Philippines) and just have the PR application processed Outland while we wait, and only consider moving back later if at all. The choice really is up in the air between Philippines and Canada as countries to raise our family, and although Canada is the current forerunner, it is theirs to lose if the process is cumbersome.

[quote author=Leon]
If you apply inland, she could have first stage approval within 6 months and an open work permit in case you had applied for one but you say she doesn't want to work?
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This would be ideal. She has no problem working until we have kids, she just hasn’t been working since we’ve been living in Asia. No real need for it here given the low tax rates. In Canada a second income is always helpful, particularly when you’re paying such a high rate of tax.

[quote author=Leon]
If she was not visa exempt to Canada and would not have a multiple entry visa, travelling during inland is a big no no because she might not get a visa to return. Being visa exempt or having a multiple entry visa, many people have travelled during inland without a problem. However, if for any reason she were not able to go back, she would lose her application because inland requires the person to live in Canada.
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If she gets the open work permit and thus has valid residence status in Canada and were to travel, she would no longer need to show that she has to leave / not overstay, right? This is starting to sound like the best option to me, as it sounds the most legitimate.

[quote author=Leon]
Rich or poor, you still have to show that your relationship is genuine. Rich people can also enter into a MOC to get Canadian PR. After all, you can't buy one.
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Of course it is genuine. There is no financial disparity between us. There is no age disparity between us. Why would there be a reason for an MOC in such an instance? Presumably this should be the conclusion reached by CIC as well. Particularly given that we don’t necessarily care all that much if we don’t get into Canada, it would just be perhaps a better alternative among the options.

[quote author=Steph C]
In order of speed, Hong Kong is fastest, Manila is second, and Singapore is by far the slowest.. I would avoid going through Singapore at all costs. I think Manila is your best bet. What kind of ties do you have to Hong Kong? You can't just pick and choose VO's.
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Good insights. Any idea why Singapore is the slowest? Typically everything in Singapore is the most efficient and fastest – this must not hold true for the Canadian embassy. I suppose if we do Outland then it should be in Manila.

[quote author=Canadianwoman]
I suggest she apply through Manila. Outland, because she wants to travel. If she applies outland, she can still wait out the processing time in Canada as a visitor. It would be easier if you move back to Canada first before applying, because otherwise you will have to submit proof of your intention to return. The visa officer will see the proof of your income in the application. If you have significant savings or investments, I would include proof of that too.
[/quote]

The challenge is that once we move back to Canada, it might be 10 months or more before we are back in the Philippines. So then it would take quite some time before we even start the outland process and I’d much rather have it kicked off as soon as possible.

I haven’t asked before, but is there not a way to fast-track the process? Maybe certain elements of proof / legal liability or something like that? Like the PR is conditional upon us staying married / together, having kids within the next 5 years and not declaring bankruptcy, committing a felony, or going on welfare (all of which are horrible things)?

Thanks again for the comments – much appreciated!

 

[Steph C]

The challenge is that once we move back to Canada, it might be 10 months or more before we are back in the Philippines. So then it would take quite some time before we even start the outland process and I'd much rather have it kicked off as soon as possible.

I haven't asked before, but is there not a way to fast-track the process? Maybe certain elements of proof / legal liability or something like that? Like the PR is conditional upon us staying married / together, having kids within the next 5 years and not declaring bankruptcy, committing a felony, or going on welfare (all of which are horrible things)?

Thanks again for the comments – much appreciated!

You don't have to BE outland to apply outland. You can apply outland even though you both are in Canada.

I don't think there's any way to fast track the process. It will be about a year, and less if you are lucky.

 

[ehtobecanadian]

You don't have to BE outland to apply outland. You can apply outland even though you both are in Canada.

I don't think there's any way to fast track the process. It will be about a year, and less if you are lucky.

Meaning we can go to a visa office in Canada and apply outland? Or we need to apply outland and then come to Canada?

 

[Steph C]

Meaning we can go to a visa office in Canada and apply outland? Or we need to apply outland and then come to Canada?

You can apply outland from either inside or outside Canada. To do this, you will mail your complete visa application to Mississauga. They will approve you as a sponsor and send your application to the relevant Visa Office abroad, for the second stage of processing.

 

[ehtobecanadian]

You can apply outland from either inside or outside Canada. To do this, you will mail your complete visa application to Mississauga. They will approve you as a sponsor and send your application to the relevant Visa Office abroad, for the second stage of processing.

This is really interesting to know. If we apply outland can we also get an Open Work Permit? Otherwise, what is the likelihood of getting a work permit while on a tourist visa from a non-exempt country? For example can you walk over to the local mall and just apply like a regular person?

Second, if we leave the country and then come back after a vacation after having stayed in the country for like 10 months, will this not raise suspicion upon immigration that there is no intent to leave again?

 

[scylla]

This is really interesting to know. If we apply outland can we also get an Open Work Permit? Otherwise, what is the likelihood of getting a work permit while on a tourist visa from a non-exempt country? For example can you walk over to the local mall and just apply like a regular person?

No - there is no open work permit with the outland option unfortunately. If she wants to work before PR is granted, she would have to find an employer who is willing to obtain an approved LMO (typically very difficult) and then apply for a work permit.

Open work permits are only available if you apply inland.

 

[scylla]

Just so that I understand correctly – we need to show that we intend to move to Canada, but that we don't intend to overstay a tourist visa? This seems counterintuitive to me. Unless the expectation is that you spend some time apart (which we obviously don't want to do), then this somehow seems strange.

You must prove that you plan to return to Canada to live there AFTER your spouse's PR visa has been approved (not before). So no - there is no assumption that you will spend time apart - I agree that would be illogical.

 

[ehtobecanadian]

Indeed. So the expectation is that you must (effectively) notify the government several years in advance of a potential return to Canada. It seems unlikely under those circumstances that you'd have a job offer open for such a length of time, so presumably most people come back unemployed. Doesn't seem to be the best case for our unfortunate budget.

Thanks for the clarification around the Open Work Permit. This alone suggests that we will almost certainly go with an Inland application. Having a valid work permit within Canada I imagine would allow us to get around the whole 'proof you wont stay in Canada' challenge, as the expectation (obviously) would be to return to work after a vacation.

 

[canadianwoman]

Once you are back living in Canada, you no longer have to submit proof you will move back to Canada. It is only when the sponsor is living in some other country that he or she has to submit evidence of intent to return. So it would be easiest if you returned to Canada and applied from here. Your wife can come with you as a visitor. While she is in Canada, she can apply inland or outland. The difference is where the application is processed, not where the applicant is. With inland, she gets a work permit after the first stage of processing, which could be six months or more. Outland through the Philippines, she might have her PR visa by then. One forum member recently got his Philippine wife's PR visa in three months, and her case was a lot more complicated than yours.

 

[ehtobecanadian]

Wow. Within 3 months? This is interesting news to be sure.

We likely wouldn't travel within the first 8-9 months, so I wonder if the processing might even be done by the time the application finishes.

The consensus though is that she wouldn't be likely to be able to work within 6 months in any case right?

 

[Steph C]

One forum member recently got his Philippine wife's PR visa in three months, and her case was a lot more complicated than yours.

3 months is the big exception rather then the rule, the Manila average based on the spreadsheet is 8 months - you can check it here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtCLbbZupkY_dHJRT2R1alhXS2xaUzFTcHZsTUhVbHc#gid=0

Check the outland thread to see how quick it really is for them.

 

[canadianwoman]

Wow. Within 3 months? This is interesting news to be sure.

We likely wouldn't travel within the first 8-9 months, so I wonder if the processing might even be done by the time the application finishes.

The consensus though is that she wouldn't be likely to be able to work within 6 months in any case right?

Right. The three months was unusual, I admit. She could get the visa in 8 or 9 months outland, realistically. Faster times are usually because the application included a lot of proof the relationship was genuine, the visa officer had no doubts, and so the applicant was not called for an interview.

 

[Sweden]

Just so that I understand correctly – we need to show that we intend to move to Canada, but that we don't intend to overstay a tourist visa? This seems counterintuitive to me. Unless the expectation is that you spend some time apart (which we obviously don't want to do), then this somehow seems strange.

to clarify: if you apply while you are outside of Canada, you need to prove that you will move to Canada once the visa is approved. You don't need a job offer, you need to show that you have a plan to move there. That includes: letters from friends and family that they know of your intention, potential links to Canada, a plan on where you will settle etc.

This is sort of what I was thinking from an Inland perspective, as it seems the most risk-free. It is funny how immigration could suspect you're a risk to ‘overstay' when you have a PR application in process – of course you will ‘overstay' as you plan to live there. Although we will be traveling together, the intent of course would be to take a vacation from Canada to another country and back again, with no intention of leaving until the next vacation.

the "overstay" refers to overstaying the visa time allowed. not overstaying once the PR is approved.
If you apply inland, she should not leave the country for the time of the application (14 months).

The challenge is that once we move back to Canada, it might be 10 months or more before we are back in the Philippines. So then it would take quite some time before we even start the outland process and I'd much rather have it kicked off as soon as possible.

as she is from the Philippines, she doesn't need to be there to apply. You can stay where you are, put your application together, and send it outland to Mississauga. They will assess you - the sponsor - in about 1 month, then send her application to Manila (if you indicate Manila as your VO) for the second stage, and there it's typically 8 to 9 months. You don't need to go anywhere in the meantime, and once the PR is approved you can move to Canada together.

I haven't asked before, but is there not a way to fast-track the process? Maybe certain elements of proof / legal liability or something like that? Like the PR is conditional upon us staying married / together, having kids within the next 5 years and not declaring bankruptcy, committing a felony, or going on welfare (all of which are horrible things)?

if you've been common law or married for more than 2 years, then her PR will be a "full PR". If you've been CL for less than 2 years, then hers will be a conditional PR, which means that it can be revoked if you split up. But that doesn't speed up the process - it merely prevents people that would be willing to engage in a MOC to do so ( at least that's the idea).
What speeds up an application: a well prepared, complete, with all documents and fees paid, application. Nothing else.

Sweden

 

[ehtobecanadian]

Alright. So reading everything here, it sounds as if the best option is as follows:

• Fly to Canada
• Wife enters the country as a visitor
• Apply for PR outland (Manila) through Mississauga office
• Wife finds a job if she can (if not, no worries)
• We travel to Manila for interview (if needed) but otherwise no travel
• Application is approved in 3-6 months if we fill it out correctly
• Wife gets conditional PR

Does she have to collect the PR in Manila? Or can we get it in Canada? Or can someone else collect for her in Manila and mail it to us?

Thanks for all the help!