Clarity on the PR Process

[ehtobecanadian]

Hi Everyone,

Although I'm fairly well read on the CIC / internet forums with respect to the visa process, I just wanted to validate my current situation and see if there were any comments.

The Situation:

I am 26 and currently live in Singapore/Hong Kong with my Filipina wife. I am on an employment pass here while she is on a dependants pass. I earn more than $100,000 CAD / annum, so there is no real need for her to work and thus she hasn’t been. Previously she was a flight attendant for Singapore Airlines and a local Philippines airline. Given that we don’t believe that Singapore/Hong Kong is the right place for us to raise a family, we are considering moving back to Canada. I have several job offers back home already that I could move into, but I want to be sure there will be no family issues if we do so. Furthermore, I want to understand what the right process is for us with respect to PR / travel requirements we might have after moving back to Canada.

The Context:

• She currently holds a dependants pass in Singapore/Hong Kong
• She currently holds a multiple entry Canadian visa valid for 17 months (November 2014)
• She holds a Philippines passport
• She holds an (expired) Dutch passport
• She is 26 years old
• She graduated with honours from the best university in the Philippines (University of the Philippines, Diliman)
• Her parents own assets in the Philippines worth in excess of $1 million CAD
• We plan to have a wedding (again) for both of our families together in the Philippines in April 2014
• We plan to move to Canada by July 2013

The Questions:

• Should we apply Inland or Outland?
• If we apply Outland, will she still be able to come to Canada in July as a ‘visitor’ but stay indefinitely while extending her tourist visa based on ‘PR Application in Process’?
• If we apply Inland, will she be able to travel out of the country for vacation with me (staying in one place for 14+ months is tough…)?
• Are there any other concerns we should be aware of?

Thoughts:

From what I understand, the major concern with people coming from non visa-exempt countries is that it could be a marriage of convenience (MOC). However, given that in this situation her family is clearly well off (better than mine), that our earning potential as a family unit puts us above the average, and that we have both traveled extensively, I don’t see MOC as a potential issue for them. Ultimately, we just want a better place to start and raise a family, and I’m worried that it might be better for us to not return to Canada simply because of this process. That seems to be a strange hindrance to a citizen who may wish to return home, particularly when my tax burden will be monumentally higher than it is today in this low-tax country.

Would love to hear what you think!

Thanks,
ehtobecanadian

 

[Korea2Canada]

How well off her family is does not impact your PR. The sponsor (you) is what matters.Applying outland is faster. Having a PR in process does not give her anything more than a normal visitor in terms of visa.

 

[cdnmom]

Hello ehtobecanadian

As you want to travel/vacation during the process you should apply outland as if you apply inland and your wife leaves the country as is not permitted to re-enter her application will be abandoned.

As she already holds a TRV valid until 2014 she can enter Canada as a visitor in July... If you have already submitted your application for PR let the border services officer know... just remember any time someone enters as a visitor there is a chance they could be denied entry.

As you have lived together you should have evidence to prove your relationship is genuine. And I agree with you on the fact that her family being well off... it helps your PR application as she has not married you to receive monetary gains.

Hope this helps
And Good Luck!!!

 

[ehtobecanadian]

Hi both,

Thanks for the replies.

Korea2Canada: Applying Outland has some constraints, which is why we asked the question. My income in Canada being part of that particular tax bracket should be more than enough to support. She already has a visitor visa, so that isn't an issue. The only challenge would be having to travel back to this side of the world for an interview, and that each time she 'visited' Canada she would need to prove that she intended to leave... which obviously she wouldn't since she would be living with me. The key here is not to be separated for any length of time, and if that means not moving back to Canada, then that is an option.

Cdnmom: Is there any reason why she wouldn't be permitted to re-enter the country if she has a valid Multiple Entry visa and a pending PR application (inland)? Would this not ensure that she has the ability to re-enter the country for at least the 6 month duration? Although I suppose the concern is that if the PR is rejected that she might become an illegal alien. Interesting point.

I think the other option here might be for her to find work once she is in Canada, thereby assuaging the potential challenge of re-entering Canada while her PR is in process, as she would have valid resident status within the country. I've also heard that there is an application with CIC that allows temporary work permit for inland PR applications so that she could work while the application is in process. Finally, if that fails, is there any way that an existing family business could sponsor her work permit?

Thanks!

 

[cdnmom]

Anyone entering Canada on a visitor's visa runs the risk of being denied entry
If she has history of entering and leaving Canada in the past that would help

If you apply inland you can send an Open Work Permit application with your sponsorship package. Once you have the sponsorship approval she would get her work permit... but with the inland application she would not be able to travel.

From my understanding the family business would have to do a Labour Market Opinion in order for her to work there.

You don't have to show any income in order to sponsor her... but you are correct in that if she has to do an interview she will have to travel back... but show enough evidence that your relationship is genuine and the interview could be waived.... or the interview could be a good time for a vacation

 

[ehtobecanadian]

Fair enough. I think it is unfortunate that we potentially deny people entry or otherwise upset people who have clearly no inclination to do anything strange. Coming from the Philippines, she hasn't had much exposure to Canada in the past (aside from Vancouver airport), and the fact that she was a flight attendant for 2 years means that although she has been to more than 30 countries, she doesn't have stamps on her passport (they don't stamp FAs for obvious reasons).

Why we would need to prove that she plans to leave after she arrives is strange to me, particularly when she has a PR application in process and the situation is not a strange one (i.e. clearly not a MOC as there are no indicators of that). I wish there was a fast-track process where if you meet certain criteria, they could grant you de-facto status while your application was processing. Whether this is an income requirement, age-gap requirement, profession requirement, spouse financial capability requirement or whatnot, I think it would make some lives tremendously easier.

It also seems strange that (for example) I could sponsor her even if I was unemployed but seeking work, and yet if I'm earning a good salary this doesn't have any positive bearing. This is Government which is supported by our tax dollars, so shouldn't it be that the more we pay in taxes, the better service we get...?

 

[scylla]

It also seems strange that (for example) I could sponsor her even if I was unemployed but seeking work, and yet if I'm earning a good salary this doesn't have any positive bearing. This is Government which is supported by our tax dollars, so shouldn't it be that the more we pay in taxes, the better service we get...?

The process is designed to treat everyone equally and not discriminate based on income or assets when it comes to spousal reunification. So no - it wouldn't be right if more taxes = better service. That's classist and not what Canada is about.

 

[ehtobecanadian]

You're right that it isn't what Canada is about (unfortunately), but we could certainly do more to improve. I think we need to recognize that not everyone is equal, so we can't treat people equally. Rather we should treat people in the spirit of equality.

 

[UsCa]

You're right that it isn't what Canada is about (unfortunately), but we could certainly do more to improve. I think we need to recognize that not everyone is equal, so we can't treat people equally. Rather we should treat people in the spirit of equality.

You have this kind of thinking because you earn more than $100,000 CAD / annum...?
Everybody should be treated equally.
If you earn this much , CIC would not matter this.

and why are you showing that you earn so much and your wife's parent's property is that much... this doesnt make sense..

Ask what you want to about the sponsorship thing. No one here is interested in how much you make

 

[ehtobecanadian]

I have that thinking because it is fair.

I've provided the information because it should be relevant. Clearly the government should be a profit center so needs to make money through taxes.

People should be treated fairly, not equally.

 

[Steph C]

I think your best bet is to do an outland application through Manila. I don't think you have to worry too much of the possibility of an interview. It's pretty rare. Once the application is in process, she can come to Canada on a visitor's visa. She can 'land' once she gets her visa, inside Canada.

You're right about one thing - that her family situation allows her a visitor's visa. Most Filipinos are not as lucky. I don't think you will be denied upon entry.. because coming from a non visa exempt country she already has the visitor's visa. Don't plan for her to overstay. Book a round trip ticket.

Nobody cares how much money you make. You will have to prove that you intend to settle in Canada once you get your visa. That's what you should focus on in your application, as well as providing sufficient proof of your relationship with your wife that you won't have to submit additional documents or go to interview.

For more questions on applying through Manila, come join us on the English thread.. we have insider info as to what documents might be needed and what to expect

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/manila-tread-for-english-speakers-join-here-t123646.0.html

 

[ehtobecanadian]

Hey Steph,

Thanks for the reply. This is super helpful. A couple of questions from that:

When you are coming into Canada as a visitor, do you need to declare that you have a PR application in process?
Would it be better to apply from Manila or from Singapore/Hong Kong?

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Leon]

You say she has an expired passport from the Netherlands. Does she have dual citizenship and can she renew that passport? If she could, she is visa exempt and it would be easier for her to enter Canada.

If you apply outland and you want to apply right now, you could if you show a job offer, intentions to move to Canada when she gets her PR. However, you could also apply in 2 months when you are in Canada and not have to show anything. If you apply outland, she is free to travel but a person even one who is visa exempt or who had a multiple entry visit visa can still be refused entry if immigration thinks they are a risk to overstay. However, not very common, especially if you are travelling together. If it should happen, an outland application will continue to be processed and your wife can wait it out in some other country.

If you apply inland, she could have first stage approval within 6 months and an open work permit in case you had applied for one but you say she doesn't want to work? If she was not visa exempt to Canada and would not have a multiple entry visa, travelling during inland is a big no no because she might not get a visa to return. Being visa exempt of having a multiple entry visa, many people have travelled during inland without a problem. However, if for any reason she were not able to go back, she would lose her application because inland requires the person to live in Canada.

Rich or poor, you still have to show that your relationship is genuine. Rich people can also enter into a MOC to get Canadian PR. After all, you can't buy one.

 

[Steph C]

From what I have heard about Netherlands passports, if you are not born there, and you don't renew them in time, it's over.

 

[Steph C]

Hey Steph,

Thanks for the reply. This is super helpful. A couple of questions from that:

When you are coming into Canada as a visitor, do you need to declare that you have a PR application in process?
Would it be better to apply from Manila or from Singapore/Hong Kong?

Thanks,
Brian

In order of speed, Hong Kong is fastest, Manila is second, and Singapore is by far the slowest.. I would avoid going through Singapore at all costs. I think Manila is your best bet. What kind of ties do you have to Hong Kong? You can't just pick and choose VO's.