Clarification re: Documentation requirements for a Certificate of Citizenship

[erikjwaxx]

Hi all,

I am trying to wrap my head around the requirements for documentation to obtain a Certificate of Canadian Citizenship.

Background: I'm a US citizen, married to an Ontario-born Canadian citizen. We currently reside in the USA. I'm applying for the certificate for my daughter.

The instructions for the application seem to be ambiguous: the instructions state that all documents need to be "certified copies," but on the document checklist, the only documents listed as "original or certified copy" required are both my daughter's US birth certificate, and my wife's Ontario birth certificate. "Copy" is listed as sufficient for other documentation.

So which is it? Am I able to send plain photocopies of my daughter's ID, so long as the birth certificates are certified copies? I live in a state (NY) where notaries public are not permitted to certify document copies, so I don't even know how I'd go about getting "certified copies" of e.g. her passport card.

Also, are the documents submitted for the CoC returned along with the certificate? If not, we'll have to purchase additional copies of both my daughter and wife's birth certificates -- which is fine, but I need to know before I ship off the originals.

As a final question, I've seen that a Canadian social insurance card doesn't constitute an ID for purposes of the CoC. Does this also apply to the US-equivalent social security card, or is this an acceptable form of ID? I've seen some references that seem to indicate as such, but nothing definitive.

 

[alphazip]

Follow the document checklist to determine whether you can just send a copy or have to send an original or "certified" copy. With regard to birth certificates, it may be easiest to just send originals, but they will not be returned. Note, however, that getting an extra copy of your wife's birth certificate from Ontario may not be as simple as you would think: http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/FormDetail?openform&ENV=WWE&NO=007-11076E

Otherwise, I believe CIC would accept a "true copy" statement from a U.S. lawyer. As you say, notaries in most (all?) states cannot certify a document as being a true copy. A Social Security card is not an ideal form of ID, because there is no photo. I have read (on here) that in the case of young children with no ID, a parent's ID is accepted instead. Another form of photo ID you could get for your daughter is here: http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/pio/safechild.htm

 

[erikjwaxx]

Thanks for the clarification! I was fairly sure that, per the document checklist, we only needed certified copies of the actual citizenship proofs (i.e. birth certificates) and not the IDs, but there was some ambiguity in the general instructions on the CIC website for a first certificate, so I wanted to be sure.

As far as choice of IDs go, I am already planning on submitting her US passport card, which obviously bears a photo, in addition to the SSC, so the "at least one piece of ID must have a photo" is satisfied. If there is a preference for both to have a photo, do you think her passport book would suffice as a second ID, or would it be rejected as too similar to the passport card (since both bear the same photo and were applied for at the same time for the same sort of purpose)?

We've already had to go through Ontario once to get my wife's birth certificate (actually, the long-form certificate of registration of live birth or what-not) for our marriage license, which was straightforward, so I'm not concerned about that. Thanks for confirming that the documents are retained, so I know to order additional copies of these.

As an aside, though I live in a state that doesn't allow notaries to certify document copies, several states do: in fact, I'm about a half-hour's journey from Vermont and Massachusetts, both of which permit this. However, it turns out that even in states where that's permitted, vital records cannot be certified as true copies per the American Society of Notaries because the actual "original" record is on file with the jurisdiction where it was registered, and so certified copies must be ordered from the jurisdiction of registry. I'm mainly mentioning this in case any one else performs a forum search in the future.

 

[alphazip]

Thanks for the clarification! I was fairly sure that, per the document checklist, we only needed certified copies of the actual citizenship proofs (i.e. birth certificates) and not the IDs, but there was some ambiguity in the general instructions on the CIC website for a first certificate, so I wanted to be sure.

As far as choice of IDs go, I am already planning on submitting her US passport card, which obviously bears a photo, in addition to the SSC, so the "at least one piece of ID must have a photo" is satisfied. If there is a preference for both to have a photo, do you think her passport book would suffice as a second ID, or would it be rejected as too similar to the passport card (since both bear the same photo and were applied for at the same time for the same sort of purpose)?

We've already had to go through Ontario once to get my wife's birth certificate (actually, the long-form certificate of registration of live birth or what-not) for our marriage license, which was straightforward, so I'm not concerned about that. Thanks for confirming that the documents are retained, so I know to order additional copies of these.

As an aside, though I live in a state that doesn't allow notaries to certify document copies, several states do: in fact, I'm about a half-hour's journey from Vermont and Massachusetts, both of which permit this. However, it turns out that even in states where that's permitted, vital records cannot be certified as true copies per the American Society of Notaries because the actual "original" record is on file with the jurisdiction where it was registered, and so certified copies must be ordered from the jurisdiction of registry. I'm mainly mentioning this in case any one else performs a forum search in the future.

If your daughter has a passport card and a passport book, then she should be all set in terms of ID.

Ontario has tightened up their requirements re: birth certificates so much that not only is a guarantor required, but a person is only supposed to have one copy of their birth certificate at a time. And, if a birth certificate is lost, the applicant is supposed to make a police report!

 

[erikjwaxx]

Ontario has tightened up their requirements re: birth certificates so much that not only is a guarantor required, but a person is only supposed to have one copy of their birth certificate at a time. And, if a birth certificate is lost, the applicant is supposed to make a police report!

Yes, I saw that after the fact. Guarantor isn't a problem -- she has an engineer uncle and an accountant cousin -- but seriously? Only one copy? That's kind of ridiculous.

I'm going to to try and get in touch with the IRCC call centre (look at me, Anglicizing spellings ) and inquire about this situation.

 

[brian1337]

Yes, I saw that after the fact. Guarantor isn't a problem -- she has an engineer uncle and an accountant cousin -- but seriously? Only one copy? That's kind of ridiculous.

I'm going to to try and get in touch with the IRCC call centre (look at me, Anglicizing spellings ) and inquire about this situation.

Hi Erik - I'm in a similar situation. This thread is helpful (came across it when Googling). What did you end up doing re: the Ontario birth certificate certified copy? I'm living in California and not sure how to get a certified copy of an Ontario birth certificate.

Thanks!

-Brian

 

[alphazip]

Hi Erik - I'm in a similar situation. This thread is helpful (came across it when Googling). What did you end up doing re: the Ontario birth certificate certified copy? I'm living in California and not sure how to get a certified copy of an Ontario birth certificate.

Thanks!

-Brian

You can order an Ontario birth certificate online (https://www.orgforms.gov.on.ca/eForms/start.do?lang=en&_ga=1.87517848.1821776186.1465094782) or by mail (http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/007-11076E~1/$File/11076E.pdf). If you don't have a guarantor, call the Registrar General's office: 800-461-2156/416-325-8305.

 

[brian1337]

You can order an Ontario birth certificate online or by mail. If you don't have a guarantor, call the Registrar General's office: 800-461-2156/416-325-8305.

Thanks - but the concern that I'm learning from this thread is that, in Ontario, "a person is only supposed to have one copy of their birth certificate at a time. And, if a birth certificate is lost, the applicant is supposed to make a police report!" And applying for a citizenship certificate means you don't get the "certified copy" of your birth certificate back. Not sure how to navigate around that.

We already have an Ontario birth certificate. We just don't know how to get a certified copy of it.

 

[foodie69]

Take it to a notary to get a copy thereof certified..

 

[brian1337]

Take it to a notary to get a copy thereof certified..

Doesn't work - as Erik pointed out earlier in this thread, "Vital records cannot be certified as true copies per the American Society of Notaries because the actual 'original' record is on file with the jurisdiction where it was registered, and so certified copies must be ordered from the jurisdiction of registry."

Hence the dilemma.

 

[alphazip]

Thanks - but the concern that I'm learning from this thread is that, in Ontario, "a person is only supposed to have one copy of their birth certificate at a time. And, if a birth certificate is lost, the applicant is supposed to make a police report!" And applying for a citizenship certificate means you don't get the "certified copy" of your birth certificate back. Not sure how to navigate around that.

We already have an Ontario birth certificate. We just don't know how to get a certified copy of it.

Unless you have ordered a birth certificate from Ontario recently, I don't think you'll have a problem. You can always call the Registrar General's office at 800-461-2156/416-325-8305 and ask your questions.

 

[alphazip]

Doesn't work - as Erik pointed out earlier in this thread, "Vital records cannot be certified as true copies per the American Society of Notaries because the actual 'original' record is on file with the jurisdiction where it was registered, and so certified copies must be ordered from the jurisdiction of registry."

Hence the dilemma.

Exactly who can certify a document seems to vary by agency. These pages suggest that the IRCC will accept a "true copy" statement from persons in a number of different professions, not just a notary public (which office, in Canada, is usually held by a lawyer):

http://www.immigroup.com/news/what-are-certified-copies
https://www.immigrationdirect.ca/blog/2012/07/18/what-is-a-certified-copy/

I can't say for sure, however, whether having a priest or veterinarian certify your birth certificate would be acceptable for an application for proof of citizenship.

This page (not for IRCC) has a more limited list: http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/pssngr-prtct/crtfd-cps-nstrctns-eng.aspx

Maybe a lawyer is the safest bet, but going that route would likely cost more than just sending an original birth certificate.