Citizenship test in international transit zone due to COVID measures

[eatpraylove]

Rhetorical question: Why would you want to be a citizen of this country if you don’t want to be in this country? I think it’s more of a measure to weed out those who want to abuse the status.

what do you mean "weed out" .... being Canadian is not about your location or where you live. You can be a good Canadian and represent Canada proudly abroad.
Who gave you the impression that Canadians abroad are abusing the system and only the good Canadians stay in Canada ?!! really interested to hear an explanation to this or if there is any reference that we may have not heard of that states such.

 

[fr72]

To add to your comment about worldwide taxation:

"Canada still apply worldwide taxation on Canadian tax residents. PRs often are tax resident despite living abroad."

Yes, you can do a test at airport (for the sake of argument), but read on:

I suppose you are abroad and looking at taking test at the airport. Technically, you can do it and there is no issue with it (apart from any quarantine requirements that may apply). However, there are many catches :

1- IRCC is interviewing each and every applicant who has given test. First they are calling Canadian numbers which is a check if person is living in Canada. The interview reveals a lot of information about you, and IRCC may find out that a person is not living in Canada. If IRCC get to know that a person doesnt live in Canada, they expect your file to have an update of recent (overseas) address. If they dont see overseas address on file, IRCC may consider this as mis-representation and deny citizenship application/impose restrictions.
2- Let's assume one moves beyond this point and undertakes Oath. Citizenship certificate is sent by mail at Canadian address. One can't receive citizenship certificate outside of Canada. More so, as a part of Oath ceremony, applicant has to tear off/cut PR card into 2 pieces so one needs Canadian passport to travel back in!
3- Passport also is send to local mailing address. However, passport request can be made at Canadian consulates abroad. Not sure how Canadian consulate accommodate first pasaport request from a new citizen.
4- As a PR one is deemed tax resident, even if living abroad (read next comment) and expected to file Tax returns. To cut tax ties with Canada, there is a specific CRA process under which Final Tax return is submitted before a person can become non tax resident. The repercussion is huge. CRA would expect submission of tax returns and may tax overseas income (following worldwide taxation principles).

You are wrong, Canada does not tax citizens who live outside Canada. That is the 'excuse' xenophobes have to want to force all naturalized citizens to live in Canada even if they get better careers abroad after becoming citizens.

If Canada taxed income for citizens abroad, there would be no excuse - they would still contribute to whatever services they might use upon their return. But xenophobes dont want this, because it would mean Canadian born citizens who jet off to Texas for the high salaries will need to pay Canadian taxes.

Now let me take up the rest of your points.

1. You are assuming that one would lie about overseas address. Why this assumption? Lot of people assume that immigrants are compulsive liars.
2. Mailing address can be different to home address, you do know that right? Again no need to do any lying here. Just give a Canadian mailing address.
3. Passport can be applied for at any foreign consulate.
4. My point about taxes was about naturalized citizens not PRs.

If the OP here wanted to lie and break laws, why would they go through the trouble to fly to Canada at all? In fact, OP is taking great pains to be on the right side of the law at the least possible cost. They might be wrong in their tactics and planning, but I find nothing morally wrong. If they wanted to lie and be law breakers, they would just stay where they are and take the test somehow.

 

[fr72]

Rhetorical question: Why would you want to be a citizen of this country if you don’t want to be in this country? I think it’s more of a measure to weed out those who want to abuse the status.

Maybe they should revoke citizenships of Wayne Gretzky and William Shatner then. They dont live in Canada. Stephen Harper personally awarded citizenship to Indian actor Akshay Kumar, a guy who most likely hasnt spent more than a few weeks in Canada. Think about that when conservatives lecture us about the sanctity of citizenship.

 

[adey786]

You are wrong, Canada does not tax citizens who live outside Canada. That is the 'excuse' xenophobes have to want to force all naturalized citizens to live in Canada even if they get better careers abroad after becoming citizens.

If Canada taxed income for citizens abroad, there would be no excuse - they would still contribute to whatever services they might use upon their return. But xenophobes dont want this, because it would mean Canadian born citizens who jet off to Texas for the high salaries will need to pay Canadian taxes.

Now let me take up the rest of your points.

1. You are assuming that one would lie about overseas address. Why this assumption? Lot of people assume that immigrants are compulsive liars.
2. Mailing address can be different to home address, you do know that right? Again no need to do any lying here. Just give a Canadian mailing address.
3. Passport can be applied for at any foreign consulate.
4. My point about taxes was about naturalized citizens not PRs.

I am not here to waste my time proving my comments about tax. I know I am right because this is my bread and butter.

To respond to your follow up bullets (same order):

1- My comment assumed worse case scenario
2- Right. I agree. How would you get your citizenship certificate and passport out of Canada? The documents wont make past Canadian Border checks and if they somehow get into hands of US customs, your citizenship certificate and passport will be destroyed on spot.
3- Right. Technically yes, but practically we dont know
4- You don't know how tax system works so you are wrong.

 

[fr72]

I am not here to waste my time proving my comments about tax. I know I am right because this is my bread and butter.

To respond to your follow up bullets (same order):

1- My comment assumed worse case scenario
2- Right. I agree. How would you get your citizenship certificate and passport out of Canada? The documents wont make past Canadian Border checks and if they somehow get into hands of US customs, your citizenship certificate and passport will be destroyed on spot.
3- Right. Technically yes, but practically we dont know
4- You don't know how tax system works so you are wrong.

What are you trying to prove about tax? You do know that it is possible for Canadian citizens working abroad to give up Canadian tax residency right? If you are disagreeing with this, I feel bad for your employer.

1. Yes, assume the worst intentions from an immigrant like a good xenophobe. Guilty until proven innocent - the principle of banana republics.
2. Citizenship certificate will be mailed to a friend or your attorney's mailing address in Canada. Mailing address CAN BE DIFFERENT to home address (which in this case will be a foreign address).
3. What? What? Thousands of people apply for and get their passports at consulates all over the world. I did it for my home country's passport. Are you really this clueless or just pretending?
4. I am sorry you are so bad at your job.

 

[adey786]

What are you trying to prove about tax? You do know that it is possible for Canadian citizens working abroad to give up Canadian tax residency right? If you are disagreeing with this, I feel bad for your employer.

1. Yes, assume the worst intentions from an immigrant like a good xenophobe. Guilty until proven innocent - the principle of banana republics.
2. Citizenship certificate will be mailed to a friend or your attorney's mailing address in Canada. Mailing address CAN BE DIFFERENT to home address (which in this case will be a foreign address).
3. What? What? Thousands of people apply for and get their passports at consulates all over the world. I did it for my home country's passport. Are you really this clueless or just pretending?
4. I am sorry you are so bad at your job.

Good luck !.

 

[fr72]

Good luck !.

Lol, you need it more than me, especially at your job.

 

[smash1984]

You are wrong, Canada does not tax citizens who live outside Canada.

Are you sure about this? I heard that you can escape taxation abroad (places like GCC in the middle east) if you completely shut shop in Canada (like no bank account and other such conditions), otherwise you will be taxed?

I am not sure about this but a Jamaican Canadian guy who worked in the middle east told me about this.

 

[canuck78]

How about landing in buffalo and crossing border on a rented car, you can give test and return to US within couple of hours

You should end up with a large fine for not doing quarantine.

 

[canuck78]

Isn't it ironic that one of Govt. offices is inviting people to write a test (with a condition that one has to be physically present in Canada to write the test) and another related branch of Govt. supposedly does not want people to come to Canada for a day or two

At least in this pandemic situation they could have removed this "must be physically present in Canada" as a pre-requisite for taking the test.

It isn't ironic. The invitation is made based on the fact that those applying for citizenship should already be living in Canada. It was only recently that you are allowed to be living abroad and be able to secure citizenship. There can be 2 things going on at the same time. The requirement to be in Canada is a longstanding requirement that is unlikely to change. Why should Canada make it easier for people who have already left Canada to get citizenship? The majority of the population would be outraged to know that the Liberals have made this possible. Due to the pandemic quarantine requirements have been put in place to try and protect the Canadian population. If you would like to live abroad and apply for your citizenships you have to enter Canada and stay for 14 days. It is a pretty small requirement. Why would Canada waive the quarantine requirement and risk spreading covid to residents, PRs and citizens who actually live in Canada to make it easier for people living abroad to write their citizenship test? If you are selfish enough to put others at risk by breaking quarantine I would plan for each person to get a fine for thousands of dollars.

 

[JHT]

It isn't ironic. The invitation is made based on the fact that those applying for citizenship should already be living in Canada. It was only recently that you are allowed to be living abroad and be able to secure citizenship. There can be 2 things going on at the same time. The requirement to be in Canada is a longstanding requirement that is unlikely to change. Why should Canada make it easier for people who have already left Canada to get citizenship? The majority of the population would be outraged to know that the Liberals have made this possible. Due to the pandemic quarantine requirements have been put in place to try and protect the Canadian population. If you would like to live abroad and apply for your citizenships you have to enter Canada and stay for 14 days. It is a pretty small requirement. Why would Canada waive the quarantine requirement and risk spreading covid to residents, PRs and citizens who actually live in Canada to make it easier for people living abroad to write their citizenship test? If you are selfish enough to put others at risk by breaking quarantine I would plan for each person to get a fine for thousands of dollars.

Yeah citizenship applicants should be locked in Canada like North Korea, no matter how long their application takes even 5 - 20 years

also citizenship applicants shouldn’t be allowed to spend months to take care of their aging parents (65+ overseas)

it’s apparently only okay to do that when they are nearly dying or terribly sick, for humanatarian and compassionate reasons..

Meanwhile birth tourism is not outrageous enough apparently

 

[canuck78]

Yes, considering Canada Border Authorities allow this for us, to declare that we will self quarantine in our rental car, complete the test and go back to US.
Not sure though, because at some page on their website, they are also saying, if you do not have a plan to quarantine for 14 days then do not come to Canada.

CBSA has been allowing landing and being able to turn around at the border not enter Canada for a few hours. There have many who were denied this option because technically you should be entering for at least 15 days. Doing your citizenship test is very different than landing at the border and being turned around.

 

[fr72]

Are you sure about this? I heard that you can escape taxation abroad (places like GCC in the middle east) if you completely shut shop in Canada (like no bank account and other such conditions), otherwise you will be taxed?

I am not sure about this but a Jamaican Canadian guy who worked in the middle east told me about this.

I am now doubting my own writing ability. Let me make it as clear as possible.

It is possible (note this word) to be a Canadian citizen, live abroad and not pay Canadian taxes.

It does not mean that it is automatic. It does not mean that it is easy. You have to do some things. Like sell assets, not have close ties (CRA has all the requirements).

My one and only point is that it is possible to be a Canadian citizen (not PR), reside abroad and not pay Canadian taxes.

There are other countries like USA, where it is impossible to do this without renouncing American citizenship.

Why am I talking about this? Read on.

The excuse used by xenophobes to justify their 'citizenship of convenience' charge is that some immigrants allegedly gain Canadian PR, live in Canada for bare minimum days, get Canadian passport and fly off to other countries to make more money. They then also proceed to give up Canadian tax residency and hence pay no further taxes to Canada. Then these Canadians come back to Canada in old age to use free healthcare.

My points are:

1. Canadian born citizens do this too. They are even worse. Because they use up free healthcare and heavily subsidized education till age 21, fly off to US to work, then come back either when they are old or they start a family (and then their kids suck up govt subsidies).

2. Having tax laws like US where it is impossible to not pay taxes even when abroad will solve this problem not only wrt immigrants, but also wrt Canadian born citizens who are also abusing the system.

3. But Conservatives never talk about such a law. Why? Because it will affect them. They love going to US and paying low taxes. And they hate immigrants. So they would rather revoke citizenships of people who go and live outside Canada and make citizenship itself 2 tier and worthless for all immigrants.

 

[fr72]

You should end up with a large fine for not doing quarantine.

I know you are hoping that this person gets fined, but as the law stands, he wont be.

Source: https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

Quote:
You may choose to leave Canada before the end of the 14-day quarantine period. However, you must:

• continue to quarantine yourself until your departure date
• wear a mask when you depart Canada
• comply with all regulations for the country of destination

You must use a private vehicle to depart Canada. You will not be allowed to board a flight if you are currently under a quarantine order.

If you are in a federal designated quarantine facility, you must get authorization from a quarantine officer to leave.

 

[fr72]

How about landing in buffalo and crossing border on a rented car, you can give test and return to US within couple of hours

The law says you can do that.

Source: https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

You may choose to leave Canada before the end of the 14-day quarantine period. However, you must:

• continue to quarantine yourself until your departure date
• wear a mask when you depart Canada
• comply with all regulations for the country of destination

You must use a private vehicle to depart Canada. You will not be allowed to board a flight if you are currently under a quarantine order.

If you are in a federal designated quarantine facility, you must get authorization from a quarantine officer to leave.