Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

[harirajmohan]

"Husband is PR and never lived in Canada, however his spouse and kids lived in Canada and completed 1095 days. The spouse and kids left Canada soon after submitting citizenship application.

Couple of days ago IRCC informed that they want to initiate full fledge residency verification as spouse and kids are abroad. Until IRCC completes its investigation, the citizenship application is on hold."

vow... I dont know why cic would make the application pending just to verify as they are supposed to verify the residency anyway as part of process. Did that family inform about their abroad stay hence suspended the processing? Any idea?

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

vow... I dont know why cic would make the application pending just to verify as they are supposed to verify the residency anyway as part of process. Did that family inform about their abroad stay hence suspended the processing? Any idea?

Well honestly, if IRCC has a doubt about residency obligation/PR status of the applicant(s), they can suspend processing.

It is mentioned under "Suspending Applications" section of their operational bulletin.

Examples of when to use suspension
Example 1: Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) receives information that the applicant is the subject of an investigation by any of our enforcement partners.
Example 2: CIC is informed that an investigation into the applicant’s permanent residence status is underway (for admissibility and/or a permanent residency determination) by either the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) or another branch or office of CIC.
Example 3: Staff becomes aware that the applicant is the subject of an open (not finalized) report under A44 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.
Example 4: The RCMP, the CBSA, the local immigration office, or Canadian Security and Intelligence Service (CSIS) need more time to complete an investigation where there may be an impact on the applicant’s clearance.

 

[novascotia27]

Well honestly, if IRCC has a doubt about residency obligation/PR status of the applicant(s), they can suspend processing.

It is mentioned under "Suspending Applications" section of their operational bulletin.

Your example is really an outlier and not a regular course of an application… this example sounds like IRCC needed to investigate and perhaps reevaluate the grounds for which this family were granted permanent residency status in Canada or dig deeper into something they found suspicious… a full blown residency investigation is not triggered just by the mere act of leaving Canada after filing an application. There’s got to be something else there..

I don’t think inflicting fear on other applicants based on one example is appropriate on this forum.. there are thousands of ppl who were successfully granted Citizenship while relocating abroad.

 

[hotshot45890]

vow... I dont know why cic would make the application pending just to verify as they are supposed to verify the residency anyway as part of process. Did that family inform about their abroad stay hence suspended the processing? Any idea?

Unfortunately there is a lot of abuse by individuals around residency requirements with some individuals only interest in procuring a "passport of convenience". Makes the overall process inefficient and delayed for all of us who love Canada and are making this place as our permanent home. I know many individuals with their spouse working in Gulf or other countries and only trying to secure their kids future college education or secure their possible retirement/ ease for travel and that is the only worth of Canadian citizenship to them (you will be shocked on how many of them even find creative ways to avoid paying taxes while at the same time taking full benefits from the government).

IRCC's incompetence/delays/inefficiencies aside (which we should continue to question and challenge to the fullest) I do hope IRCC continues to remain tough with a zero tolerance policy for anywhere abuse is suspected. Unfortunately that is the only way to protect the integrity of the overall citizenship process for everyone.

 

[harirajmohan]

Well honestly, if IRCC has a doubt about residency obligation/PR status of the applicant(s), they can suspend processing.

It is mentioned under "Suspending Applications" section of their operational bulletin.

ya cic can do anything. They dont have any limits even with simplified processes in the recent past. We have seen how they have been abusing 699 code without any ethics and for that even the administration is giving authority and press releases for supporting it.

Looking at the below text itself tells that how broad they use the language to broaden their use of power. We apply for citizenship and it actually triggers the below point and cic says they can suspend the application for the below point is simply crazy and useless and authority overreach.
"meets the requirements under the Citizenship Act relating to the application "

They simply do it most cases for gaining time, which is what we have seen in 99.99% of cases. Even for many complex cases, the candidates file in federal court and then cic sends the test/oath invite. There is no such rule for them to suspend for just the reason that people are abroad but they are doing just to gain time which is not supposed to happen as per the same article in that page. Verification of residency is part of application process whether the candidate is inside/outisde.

I dont like cic which plays with immigrant's lives.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Your example is really one in thousands of applicants… and unlikely to happen to all applicants…this example sounds like IRCC needed to investigate and perhaps reevaluate the grounds for which this family were granted permanent residency status in Canada. But is not directly related to the fact that they left Canada after applying for Citizenship.

I never said this was because they left the country. I went on a short trip myself a couple of months after I applied for citizenship.

In the case the OP mentioned, when IRCC queried CBSA, they might have provided some information that might have suggested long absences from the country than what they've declared on the application. This could have been a reason why the application was suspended.

I agree that IRCC doesn't suspend the application in the first instance where they have a doubt. In the OP's case, there might have been multiple red flags raised and hence this extreme measure.

 

[harirajmohan]

Unfortunately there is a lot of abuse by individuals around residency requirements with some individuals only interest in procuring a "passport of convenience". Makes the overall process inefficient and delayed for all of us who love Canada and are making this place as our permanent home. I know many individuals with their spouse working in Gulf or other countries and only trying to secure their kids future college education or secure their possible retirement/ ease for travel and that is the only worth of Canadian citizenship to them (you will be shocked on how many of them even find creative ways to avoid paying taxes while at the same time taking full benefits from the government).

IRCC's incompetence/delays/inefficiencies aside (which we should continue to question and challenge to the fullest) I do hope IRCC continues to remain tough with a zero tolerance policy for anywhere abuse is suspected. Unfortunately that is the only way to protect the integrity of the overall citizenship process for everyone.

"passport of convenience": This is not abuse. Canada doesnt invite immigrants just to give them benefits. Canada approves residency to improve its economy and for its benefits. Canada is not doing charity on economic immigrants. If they bring in people through refugees alone then i agree with your point.

Canada uses immigrants for its needs hence how come vice versa is abuse for you? PR is just a trade between necessities of Canada and immigrants. Few officers are of different kind hence they put the files on hold which is the truth. If govt has removed condition of "post - citizenship intent" then officers should be verifying the application accordingly, not holding the applications or delaying the test/oath just because officers dont like applicants being abroad.

 

[Coco7]

vow... I dont know why cic would make the application pending just to verify as they are supposed to verify the residency anyway as part of process. Did that family inform about their abroad stay hence suspended the processing? Any idea?

CIC can put your application on hold if they find out you have plans to relocate outside Canada after being granted Citizenship. Many people are waiting for the passport to apply for jobs abroad or move out permanently, but if they express that intend during an interview changes are this could affect the speed of their process and result in more scrutiny for your file. This is what one my relatives was told a few years ago by a immigration lawyer when he has going through the process.
I think the same would apply for the people who try to request urgent processing due to a job offer outside the country.

 

[novascotia27]

CIC can put your application on hold if they find out you have plans to relocate outside Canada after being granted Citizenship. Many people are waiting for the passport to apply for jobs abroad or move out permanently, but if they express that intend during an interview changes are this could affect the speed of their process and result in more scrutiny for your file. This is what one my relatives was told a few years ago by a immigration lawyer when he has going through the process.
I think the same would apply for the people who try to request urgent processing due to a job offer outside the country.

This is nonsense. What you are telling us effectively creates double-class Canadian Citizens because they intend to leave overseas ?? It is a fundamental right of all Canadian Citizens, whether naturalized or born-Canadian, to come and go from Canada as they please. Therefore, IRCC cannot put your Citizenship application on hold because you intend to move out of Canada once you are granted Citizenship. Though, there was once a clause in the application, prior to 2015, that required aspiring Canadians to intend to reside in Canada upon Canadian Citizenship being granted. However, the Trudeau government repealed this requirement when he took office in 2015 because it violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Don’t believe everything you’re told.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

CIC can put your application on hold if they find out you have plans to relocate outside Canada after being granted Citizenship. Many people are waiting for the passport to apply for jobs abroad or move out permanently, but if they express that intend during an interview changes are this could affect the speed of their process and result in more scrutiny for your file. This is what one my relatives was told a few years ago by a immigration lawyer when he has going through the process.
I think the same would apply for the people who try to request urgent processing due to a job offer outside the country.

This is nonsense. What you are telling us effectively creates double-class Canadian Citizens because they intend to leave overseas ?? It is a fundamental right of all Canadian Citizens, whether naturalized or born-Canadian, to come and go from Canada as they please. Therefore, IRCC cannot put your Citizenship application on hold because you intend to move out of Canada once you are granted Citizenship.

As a matter of fact, the Trudeau government repealed this requirement when he took office in 2015 because it violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Don’t believe everything you’re told.

Yeah I don't think what @Coco7 is saying is correct. They can't arbitrarily suspend your application just because you intend to live outside Canada after you get your citizenship.

Suspending is done, IMO, when there serious concerns surrounding the physical presence/RO of the applicants at the time of submission of application or if there are other serious security concerns. These are all explained in "Suspending Applications" section of their operational bulletin.

 

[Coco7]

Yeah I don't think what @Coco7 is saying is correct. They can't arbitrarily suspend your application just because you intend to live outside Canada after you get your citizenship.

Suspending is done, IMO, when there serious concerns surrounding the physical presence/RO of the applicants at the time of submission of application or if there are other serious security concerns. These are all explained in "Suspending Applications" section of their operational bulletin.

Read again I never said suspend your application, I said PUT ON HOLD because of further investigation (based on an immigration's lawyers words). Please read carefully before commenting.

 

[Coco7]

This is nonsense. What you are telling us effectively creates double-class Canadian Citizens because they intend to leave overseas ?? It is a fundamental right of all Canadian Citizens, whether naturalized or born-Canadian, to come and go from Canada as they please. Therefore, IRCC cannot put your Citizenship application on hold because you intend to move out of Canada once you are granted Citizenship. Though, there was once a clause in the application, prior to 2015, that required aspiring Canadians to intend to reside in Canada upon Canadian Citizenship being granted. However, the Trudeau government repealed this requirement when he took office in 2015 because it violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Don’t believe everything you’re told.

No non-sense. This has been discussed before and is true that after getting citizenship you are free to move wherever you want; however, expressing the intend DURING your application can potentially push your file for further investigation, resulting in longer waiting times.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Read again I never said suspend your application, I said PUT ON HOLD because of further investigation (based on an immigration's lawyers words). Please read carefully before commenting.

Well, putting on hold and suspending aren't very different IMO. Unless we can verify this with facts, it should be taken with a grain of salt IMO. Like the OP said, Trudeau government changed this "intent to reside" when they came to power. This law that was creating 2 tiers of Canadian citizens was scrapped. This law is no longer in effect.

"Intention to reside outside Canada" isn't a strong enough reason to put applications on hold. But if they suspect that you did not meet RO or you have otherwise lost PR status or there are security concerns that the applicant is prohibited from applying for citizenship, they they sure can.

Having said that, even if people intend to live outside Canada after citizenship, the majority of them don't go out announcing to IRCC and tell them they'll be moving out on the same day as they finish oath. What that immigration lawyer has said is his or her opinion and I respect that. But without any supporting evidence whatsoever, it is hard to believe that is the case. How will IRCC know if you "think" you'll leave Canada after getting citizenship? Like I already said, majority of the applicants NEVER tell IRCC this for any reason. I don't understand where that immigration lawyer got that information from? Where's the data?

 

[Coco7]

Well, putting on hold and suspending aren't very different IMO. Unless we can verify this with facts, it should be taken with a grain of salt IMO. Like the OP said, Trudeau government changed this "intent to reside" when they came to power. This law that was creating 2 tiers of Canadian citizens was scrapped. This law is no longer in effect.

I'm well aware that Trudeau scrapped the intent to reside law and is not what I'm talking about. All of previous my comments have been in response to this post, about a file that's been put on hold because the applicants left Canada after submitting their application for Citizenship.

Well I have read some of recent posts here about people looking to/argue about leaving Canada soon after applying for citizenship.

Here is the recent situation I have seen (personally know this family):

"Husband is PR and never lived in Canada, however his spouse and kids lived in Canada and completed 1095 days. The spouse and kids left Canada soon after submitting citizenship application.

Couple of days ago IRCC informed that they want to initiate full fledge residency verification as spouse and kids are abroad. Until IRCC completes its investigation, the citizenship application is on hold."

 

[Coco7]

Like I already said, majority of the applicants NEVER tell IRCC this for any reason. I don't understand where that immigration lawyer got that information from? Where's the data?

As an immigration lawyer it would make sense tat they have seen some of their clients gone through that in the past, hence why they mention it