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Citizenship Final Notice and outside Canada

immi2grate

Full Member
Aug 2, 2013
30
0
I received the 2nd notice for late April Zoom oath ceremony. However, my mother's PR card was expired so I told Citizenship Canada that I have applied for a PRTD but it may not come on time and the ceremony date will need to be pushed. I got a reply that a final notice will be sent and if mother can't attend then she will have to apply for citizenship again.
I received the final notice today and it is for in person ceremony on the same day as the 2nd notice. What am I supposed to do now since the PRTD was applied 5 days ago and I'm not sure that it will be done by that time. I have told Citizenship Canada to delay the oath ceremony sometime in June. Has anyone else be in this situation? Is there a workaround?
 

shiremag

Champion Member
Jun 14, 2022
1,325
893
I received the 2nd notice for late April Zoom oath ceremony. However, my mother's PR card was expired so I told Citizenship Canada that I have applied for a PRTD but it may not come on time and the ceremony date will need to be pushed. I got a reply that a final notice will be sent and if mother can't attend then she will have to apply for citizenship again.
I received the final notice today and it is for in person ceremony on the same day as the 2nd notice. What am I supposed to do now since the PRTD was applied 5 days ago and I'm not sure that it will be done by that time. I have told Citizenship Canada to delay the oath ceremony sometime in June. Has anyone else be in this situation? Is there a workaround?
Here are your options:
1. If your mother already has a US visa or ESTA, she can fly to a nearest US airport (near the border) and cross into Canada in a private vehicle with a COPR
2. The other option is to wait and try your luck with your PRTD
 
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immi2grate

Full Member
Aug 2, 2013
30
0
I just received another email where I had mentioned that my second and final notice both have the same date and I just a reply "Yes, it is the same date". And if you don't make it, your file will be moved to Abandoned Review. First, I am not sure why both 2nd and final notice have the same date. In fact, now the final notice needs my mother to be present at the ceremony while the last one was through a zoom call, which I could have arranged through a Transit visa. Is this common to get both 2nd and 3rd notice as the same date?
 

ukahmad1

Member
Jul 2, 2017
19
15
Seems quite ridiculous on their part if someone had to travel out of the county unexpectedly (lets say for a family emergency) and their PR card renewal application is in progress and they have applied for a PRTD that means they want to come back but cannot legally enter Canada. Instead of helping expedite the PRTD or PR card or delay the ceremony until their own department can process the pending applications they are saying she will have to reapply? Their apathy is beyond comprehension.

If she can enter through the US that would be ideal otherwise reach out to your MP and explain the whole situation maybe they can help make sense of this.
 

immi2grate

Full Member
Aug 2, 2013
30
0
Can't enter through US since the visa expired and not in ESTA either. In fact, I am willing pay north of $2000 to get her a transit visa to attend the Zoom ceremony through the airport, but now they shifted to in-person ceremony to make sure that she can't get in. I am at wits end right now.
 

firstax

Hero Member
Dec 8, 2018
423
441
So did you make plans for your parent to return when you got the first oath email? IRCC doesn't operate at your convenience, unfortunately. Just hope that the PRTD would come as soon as possible. Otherwise, they may have to re-apply.

You can try reaching your MP but their response might come too late and the oath date may have passed. An Oath invitation is like a notice to appear in court, you do not have the luxury of indefinite postponement, otherwise, the judge can rule as they please in your absence.
 

shiremag

Champion Member
Jun 14, 2022
1,325
893
Can't enter through US since the visa expired and not in ESTA either. In fact, I am willing pay north of $2000 to get her a transit visa to attend the Zoom ceremony through the airport, but now they shifted to in-person ceremony to make sure that she can't get in. I am at wits end right now.
I don't think a transit visa will work in your case even if it was a zoom interview. As a Canadian PR is not eligible for a Canadian Visa or eTA. A Canadian PR is only eligible for a PR card or a PRTD.

For oath, one needs to be on Canadian soil and must be admitted and maintain PR status. To be eligible for a Canadian Visa, a Canadian PR must renounce PR status at an embassy or high commission abroad or PRTD must have been denied for not maintaining PR residency requirements. Only after this loss of PR status can one apply for a visa. If you get a Canadian Visa, you are not a PR anymore and consequently you are ineligible to take oath as a Canadian citizen

Your ONLY option is to request the high commission or embassy to expedite PRTD

I am sorry there is no better news we can give you... As @firstax said, it's a "Notice to Appear" for oath not an invitation
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,860
22,119
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Can't enter through US since the visa expired and not in ESTA either. In fact, I am willing pay north of $2000 to get her a transit visa to attend the Zoom ceremony through the airport, but now they shifted to in-person ceremony to make sure that she can't get in. I am at wits end right now.
Do you mean a Canadian transit visa? If so, she cannot get one as a PR. That's simply not possible. She would need to renounce her PR status to meet the basic eligibility requirements for a transit visa. Her only options are a valid PRTD or valid PR card.
 
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xoly221

Full Member
Jan 16, 2018
24
1
So did you make plans for your parent to return when you got the first oath email? IRCC doesn't operate at your convenience, unfortunately. Just hope that the PRTD would come as soon as possible. Otherwise, they may have to re-apply.

You can try reaching your MP but their response might come too late and the oath date may have passed. An Oath invitation is like a notice to appear in court, you do not have the luxury of indefinite postponement, otherwise, the judge can rule as they please in your absence.
There is no judge. It's just IRCC. They've made it quite clear that one needs to be in Canada for it though.
 

@Hsandhu

Newbie
Apr 5, 2023
1
0
If your mom have USA visa , bring her to USA and then enter Canada via land with COPR and a photo ID. My PR card is expired and I go to USA for work , I enter Canada with COPR.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,860
22,119
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
If your mom have USA visa , bring her to USA and then enter Canada via land with COPR and a photo ID. My PR card is expired and I go to USA for work , I enter Canada with COPR.
OP has confirmed his mother's US visa has expired.
 

immi2grate

Full Member
Aug 2, 2013
30
0
So did you make plans for your parent to return when you got the first oath email? IRCC doesn't operate at your convenience, unfortunately. Just hope that the PRTD would come as soon as possible. Otherwise, they may have to re-apply.

You can try reaching your MP but their response might come too late and the oath date may have passed. An Oath invitation is like a notice to appear in court, you do not have the luxury of indefinite postponement, otherwise, the judge can rule as they please in your absence.
That was a mistake on our part that we saw the first invitation late, because I specially created an email account for my mother and didn't sign in much often. I signed up as a representative and gave my email address and I did receive the AOR, so I assumed that I will be getting all correspondence. I used to sign in the Citizenship tracker often, but just missed signing in for the past month or so. However, we have all intention of coming and taking the oath, so just a bit bewildered that the second and final notice was given the same date. I had previously received an email that once the second date is over, we will be issued a final notice. But received the final notice before April 21st and now need to make it to Canada before that while PRTD is still in the works.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
That was a mistake on our part that we saw the first invitation late, because I specially created an email account for my mother and didn't sign in much often. I signed up as a representative and gave my email address and I did receive the AOR, so I assumed that I will be getting all correspondence. I used to sign in the Citizenship tracker often, but just missed signing in for the past month or so. However, we have all intention of coming and taking the oath, so just a bit bewildered that the second and final notice was given the same date. I had previously received an email that once the second date is over, we will be issued a final notice. But received the final notice before April 21st and now need to make it to Canada before that while PRTD is still in the works.
Mistakes aside (but yeah, even though cautions about the risks of living abroad while a citizenship application is pending typically draw dismissive if not derisive fire in this forum, the risks are real, rather obvious, and have been repeated often here, and it is indeed a mistake to not approach extended absences, which are different than "travel" abroad, cautiously).

Denying the citizenship application on the grounds of abandonment, for failure to appear as scheduled for the oath ceremony a second time, is a real possibility.

The best way to avoid that, of course, is to appear as scheduled. I have no insight into how to accomplish this in this situation. I have seen some discussions about expedited or urgent processing of PR Travel Document applications, but I am not very familiar with how to obtain expedited processing. If possible, urgent consultation with a reputable Canadian immigration lawyer might provide an answer, but of course time is running out fast. There may be some illuminating discussion about urgent PR TD processing in the PR Obligations forum here, but so far as I have seen the anecdotal reports are at best sketchy.

It appears the chances of getting here in time are not good, so it is time to plan and prepare to deal with what happens after failing to appear as scheduled.

I suspect that the most productive course of action now is to consult with a qualified, reputable Canadian immigration lawyer. A lawyer's application to IRCC to reschedule the oath, made BEFORE the scheduled oath ceremony, might save the application, or at the least establish a stronger basis for avoiding the denial of the application based on abandonment, or for challenging it if need be.

Beyond that . . . it is time to plan and prepare for where things then go; this includes preparing to make some serious decisions.

Beyond that, if IRCC proceeds to deem the application abandoned, the applicant will probably need to relocate back to Canada to have a good chance of saving the application. Maybe not. Maybe coming to Canada for short periods will suffice, but there are various ways this could go, subject to some contingencies, and although getting back here, and living here, should help considerably, if that is not the applicant's plan this is for sure something to discuss with a lawyer.

Meanwhile, the applicant might be entitled to a hearing with a citizenship officer before the application is formally denied based on abandonment. I am not at all sure of this, so this too is something to discuss with a lawyer. Again, however, if this is the next step, it should help considerably for the applicant to BE IN Canada.

If IRCC proceeds to deny the application as abandoned, what to do after that will depend in significant part on the individual's plans and priorities. As long as they have not remained outside Canada so long as to become inadmissible due to a breach of the PR Residency Obligation, the denial of this application will not affect their eligibility for citizenship. If they make a new application, the fact the first was denied might trigger elevated scrutiny, such as RQ-related non-routine processing for a new application (in the past a denied citizenship application was an automatic trigger for RQ in a subsequent application), but that only means IRCC screens the applicant more thoroughly.

If IRCC does deny the application on the grounds it has been abandoned, the applicant can also request leave for review in the Federal Court. To do this it is important to have a lawyer, a good lawyer (technically a lawyer is not necessary, but as a practical matter a decent chance of success depends on having a good lawyer).

Summary: best chance to save this application is to LAWYER-UP. But that might not work either. Starting application process over might be the only path to becoming a Canadian citizen. In the meantime, the applicant needs to be sure to comply with the PR Residency Obligation.

Note: part of what might make this difficult to navigate is that "a person who is outside Canada and who does not present a status document indicating permanent resident status is presumed not to have permanent resident status." IRPA Section 31(2)(b), which is here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-5.html#h-274598 . . . and meanwhile, to be eligible for the grant of citizenship the applicant has the burden of proving they have valid PR status, and this applies right up to the moment before the oath is taken.

General Observation About Leaving Canada Pending Processing of Citizenship Application: There is a tendency among many in this forum to equate "travel" outside Canada with going abroad for an extended period, even relocating to live outside Canada. They are not the same. The risks connected to the latter are considerably greater. There is also a significant constituency of forum participants who militantly insist there is no negative implications for the applicant who goes abroad for an extended period of time after applying. They tend to badly confuse their view about how things SHOULD work for how it really works. No need to revisit that conversation here, now, other than to reiterate the caution that there are significant risks and applicants who relocate abroad best be cognizant of the risks and plan and prepare accordingly.