Citizenship by birth - News Article

[screech339]

A lot of this birthing tourism is actually being driven by MONEY, There are many hospitals here in Canada that are quietly promoting this because it brings in foreign funds into our country. Most of these people have to pay the hospital for the services they use. Then we get into the whole less medical services issue for our own citizens here in Canada

How can hospitals in Canada be promoting this? They lose money when the mother skip out on the medical bill and returned to her home country. The taxpayers end up on the hook for the bill. There are hospitals that has been complaining of foreign nationals skipping out on the bill after getting the birth certificate and passport. If they are complaining about it, then they can't be making a "profit" out of it.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/09/birth-tourists-believed-to-be-using-canadas-citizenship-laws-as-back-door-into-the-west/

 

[Christoph100]

How can hospitals in Canada be promoting this? They lose money when the mother skip out on the medical bill and returned to her home country. The taxpayers end up on the hook for the bill. There are hospitals that has been complaining of foreign nationals skipping out on the bill after getting the birth certificate and passport. If they are complaining about it, then they can't be making a "profit" out of it.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/09/birth-tourists-believed-to-be-using-canadas-citizenship-laws-as-back-door-into-the-west/

Then they should close the door too it, However you know as well as I do even tho they maybe loosing some..they are also collecting from others, I have heard some of the hospitals are charging up front for the service.

 

[MiriMinBC]

A lot of this birthing tourism is actually being driven by MONEY, There are many hospitals here in Canada that are quietly promoting this because it brings in foreign funds into our country. Most of these people have to pay the hospital for the services they use. Then we get into the whole less medical services issue for our own citizens here in Canada

They probably need the money. BC Children's Hospital, the ONLY children's hospital in BC has been having a fundraiser for YEARS. Why? They need to expand. They need updated equipment. They save the lives of babies and children and the BC Women's side of the hospital saves the loves of pregnant women in high risk situations and preemies (the NICU is part of BC Women's not Children's). So how is that? How is it the ONLY children's hospital in the province is reduced to begging so they can expand?

 

[MiriMinBC]

People who do the birth tourism thing just so they can be sponsored when the kid turns 18, I wonder what were they thinking really?

They would have to wait 18 years for the kid to be an adult, plus the 4-5 years for the processing time, so that's 22-23 years total to get PR. Much quicker to come through a skilled worker stream.

It's not about eventual sponsorship. It's about a better life for their kids. Access to an actual education, modern healthcare, etc..

 

[Avadava]

Note the first part of your message:

"If you plan to visit for six months or less:
You generally do not require a medical exam, unless you plan to work in certain occupations (see below).

The majority, if not all, fall into this category, when they apply for TRV. Majority of those who apply for TRV will not need to get medical test done.

Note that medical test is required if you plan to stay in Canada for more than 6 months. When you enter Canada, you only get 6 months max. So when people apply for TRV, they may be planning on staying longer than 6 months BUT they are NOT going to tell CIC that. They know TRV will get denied. So the majority will say that they visit for 1 week or 2. Once they got the TRV, they can stay for 6 months or longer once inside Canada all without medical requirement.

Yes, I have noted that. Hence my statement "I stand corrected".

 

[Christoph100]

They probably need the money. BC Children's Hospital, the ONLY children's hospital in BC has been having a fundraiser for YEARS. Why? They need to expand. They need updated equipment. They save the lives of babies and children and the BC Women's side of the hospital saves the loves of pregnant women in high risk situations and preemies (the NICU is part of BC Women's not Children's). So how is that? How is it the ONLY children's hospital in the province is reduced to begging so they can expand?

Same with CHEO in Ottawa they also fund raise and do help the same way.

 

[screech339]

Yes, I have noted that. Hence my statement "I stand corrected".

You may "stand corrected" in stating that you may require medical if staying longer than 6 months. True that. But in order to stay longer than 6 months, you are not applying for TRV, you are applying for work / study visa which require medical test.

TRV are only issued for those staying less than 6 month, hence my point that anybody can get TRV without a medical test required. So you can easily come into Canada 4-5 months pregnant and stay 6 months and deliver the baby in Canada.

 

[keesio]

How can hospitals in Canada be promoting this? They lose money when the mother skip out on the medical bill and returned to her home country. The taxpayers end up on the hook for the bill. There are hospitals that has been complaining of foreign nationals skipping out on the bill after getting the birth certificate and passport. If they are complaining about it, then they can't be making a "profit" out of it.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/09/birth-tourists-believed-to-be-using-canadas-citizenship-laws-as-back-door-into-the-west/

There may be a few skipping out but the vast majority pay. Most of the people these hospitals (and other related industries) advertise to are people from wealthy families who are looking for a backup plan for their kids in case sh*t hits the fan where there are. They are happy to pay up to get a citizenship for their child. In the 80's, it was popular with wealthy Koreans who were looking to secure US citizenship for the children for the main purposes of having easy access to US Universities without having to deal with foreign student tuition and admission policies (It is very very difficult to get into ANY University in Korea). Easy and low cost access to a US college was a backup plan. Currently the main client of this service is mainland Chinese who want a way "out" for their kids if for whatever reason sh*t hits the fan in the PRC and they are negatively impacted. It is not just hospitals. There are residences all setup for long term stay staffed with nannies and other help who take care of everything. The pregnant mom just shows up, gets pickup and taken to the residence and everything from appointments, paperwork, meals, cleaning, etc is all taken care of. The mother doesn't even need to speak a word of English. It is a big (underground) industry.

 

[keesio]

It's not about eventual sponsorship. It's about a better life for their kids. Access to an actual education, modern healthcare, etc..

Yes it is (almost) always about the kids. In asia, it is always about the kids and their future.

Of course if the kid is successful abroad, that means (s)he can send money back to the parents to assist them in their old age (if needed)...

 

[Christoph100]

Thanks kessio for really putting it out there and explaining a little bit more of what that sort of tourism entails.

 

[driftcars]

I don't think that's the sole reason. The child also gets access to free education, free healthcare and subsidized university education for life, and also benefits from the protection and convenience a Canadian passport afford. Plus, he/she can pass all of that on to his/her kids, and their kids as well! All for a price of a simple delivery (which can be free through volunteer clinics). What a scam.

Free healthcare and free education, not really.

At least in BC, the child needs to be under either one of the parents' medical coverage. For education (grade school), the school board needs to see the parent's proof of status in Canada, parents with visitor status need to pay tuition for their children.

 

[screech339]

Free healthcare and free education, not really.

At least in BC, the child needs to be under either one of the parents' medical coverage. For education (grade school), the school board needs to see the parent's proof of status in Canada, parents with visitor status need to pay tuition for their children.

Strange as it seems that a Canadian child have to pay for tuition for school when the child as a Canadian has every right to attend school regardless of parent's immigration status. So it is baffling to see that the non canadian/pr parents in BC are paying for tuition for their Canadian child.

Same apply to qualifying for provincial health coverage. Every canadian has a right to get medical coverage regardless of parent's status.

Screech339

 

[driftcars]

Strange as it seems that a Canadian child have to pay for tuition for school when the child as a Canadian has every right to attend school regardless of parent's immigration status. So it is baffling to see that the non canadian/pr parents in BC are paying for tuition for their Canadian child.

Same apply to qualifying for provincial health coverage. Every canadian has a right to get medical coverage regardless of parent's status.

Screech339

Health care and education seem to be the right of every Canadian has. I guess one of the requirement to enroll is the proof of residency, in other words, you can't just select which province you want your health care coverage to be under, and you can't just select which school you want to attend without proving you actually live there. I guess the logic is if the parents are not residents of Canada, why would the children be the residents.

 

[MiriMinBC]

Yes it is (almost) always about the kids. In asia, it is always about the kids and their future.

Of course if the kid is successful abroad, that means (s)he can send money back to the parents to assist them in their old age (if needed)...

That's because you have a responsibility to your family in some cultures. Europeans and especially North Americans of European descent do not feel that responsibility. It's actually lovely. When I lived in LA, I saw Hispanic families that were so tightly knit. Grandparents helped raise grandchildren and adult children helped their aging parents.

 

[keesio]

That's because you have a responsibility to your family in some cultures. Europeans and especially North Americans of European descent do not feel that responsibility. It's actually lovely. When I lived in LA, I saw Hispanic families that were so tightly knit. Grandparents helped raise grandchildren and adult children helped their aging parents.

Yup total difference in attitude. You still have multi-generational households in asian communities. It's changing though (in asia). One issue is the birthrate decline where there are not enough children to spread the responsibility. The other is traditional roles of women is changing. It used to be that the parents lived with the oldest son (while the other children provided support in other ways). Both oldest son and daughter-in-law took care of the aging parents. That is why so much pressure to have a son. But now people are only having one kid, lots of times it is just a daughter. And women also don't want to get stuck living with her in-laws which is always tricky. This is causing a crisis in these countries which lacked good social services to elderly since it was always up to the children to take care of them.