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Citizenship Applications after Bill C-6

hime

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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Do you think it's wise to apply with only 1098 days?
I am certain my calculation is correct technically I am eligible.
Any thoughts?
I would say give yourself one more week, safe for you
Even considering that I didn't leave Canada for all my eligibilty period?
There's no where I could be wrong with my calculations.
At least another week. Yes. (My inclination is more like a month's margin.)

But, sure, if IRCC agrees with your calculation, then 1098 days meet the minimum physical presence requirement.

It is that IF IRCC agrees part which can be tricky.

As positive you are about the calculation, what ultimately matters is how positive the total stranger bureaucrat assessing your application is, and also how certain the Citizenship Officer is when reviewing that assessment and making the decision.

If you are absolutely certain, this is not so much about whether or not you will be granted citizenship, no problem there, BUT about how long it will take. If either the total stranger bureaucrat processing agent assessing your case, or the Citizenship Officer (who is also a total stranger bureaucrat), have any concerns or otherwise apprehend a reason to examine your application more closely, that can lead to further scrutiny which delays the process, and if that involves non-routine processing the delays can be quite long.

Waiting to apply an additional week or two can mean becoming a Canadian citizen appreciably sooner.

Note, however, there are many other factors which can influence this. The applicant's work history is a big factor. Full time employment, with a readily identified and verifiable employer, working at a particular location in Canada covering the full three years, that tends to make a case very strong. Such an applicant can comfortably proceed with a much smaller margin.

In contrast, the PR who has significant gaps in employment, or was self-employed or employed by family or friends, or who has been a "consultant," this PR would be prudent to have a significantly larger margin over the minimum.

There are, of course, a myriad of scenarios. When to apply is a very personal decision. Just passing the minimum physical presence threshold is merely one factor . . . a necessary condition but otherwise there are many other things to consider before deciding WHEN to send off the application.
 

guddylover

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Dec 31, 2016
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At least another week. Yes. (My inclination is more like a month's margin.)

But, sure, if IRCC agrees with your calculation, then 1098 days meet the minimum physical presence requirement.

It is that IF IRCC agrees part which can be tricky.

As positive you are about the calculation, what ultimately matters is how positive the total stranger bureaucrat assessing your application is, and also how certain the Citizenship Officer is when reviewing that assessment and making the decision.

If you are absolutely certain, this is not so much about whether or not you will be granted citizenship, no problem there, BUT about how long it will take. If either the total stranger bureaucrat processing agent assessing your case, or the Citizenship Officer (who is also a total stranger bureaucrat), have any concerns or otherwise apprehend a reason to examine your application more closely, that can lead to further scrutiny which delays the process, and if that involves non-for utine processing the delays can be quite long.

Waiting to apply an additional week or two can mean becoming a Canadian citizen appreciably sooner.

Note, however, there are many other factors which can influence this. The applicant's work history is a big factor. Full time employment, with a readily identified and verifiable employer, working at a particular location in Canada covering the full three years, that tends to make a case very strong. Such an applicant can comfortably proceed with a much smaller margin.

In contrast, the PR who has significant gaps in employment, or was self-employed or employed by family or friends, or who has been a "consultant," this PR would be prudent to have a significantly larger margin over the minimum.

There are, of course, a myriad of scenarios. When to apply is a very personal decision. Just passing the minimum physical presence threshold is merely one factor . . . a necessary condition but otherwise there are many other things to consider before deciding WHEN to send off the application.
Kind of confused here. If applicant's work history is a big factor in assessing residency, then why do citizenship officers focus their interview question on your current job. Is going to school full time for the whole eligibility period enough with couple of partime/coop in BTW?
 

Joshua1

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Nov 18, 2013
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Kind of confused here. If applicant's work history is a big factor in assessing residency, then why do citizenship officers focus their interview question on your current job. Is going to school full time for the whole eligibility period enough with couple of partime/coop in BTW?
My assumptions are:

1. The officer is mainly interested in knowing if you were in Canada during the entire eligibility to quantify the minimum days required and for security purposes (in case a Police Certificate is required)... disclosure of tax compliance is another factor.
2. Under C24, the officer is interested in physical presence during the eligibility period, so they focus on the "current job" issue because of the "intent to reside" clause (I'm assuming your observation is based C24 applicants/forums). Now that C6 has done away with that clause, I do not see why an officer would focus on your current job if not to corroborate what you wrote on the form.
 

guddylover

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Dec 31, 2016
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My assumptions are:

1. The officer is mainly interested in knowing if you were in Canada during the entire eligibility to quantify the minimum days required and for security purposes (in case a Police Certificate is required)... disclosure of tax compliance is another factor.
2. Under C24, the officer is interested in physical presence during the eligibility period, so they focus on the "current job" issue because of the "intent to reside" clause (I'm assuming your observation is based C24 applicants/forums). Now that C6 has done away with that clause, I do not see why an officer would focus on your current job if not to corroborate what you wrote on the form.
Thanks. How much of a factor is the info IRCC receives from CRA about an applicant? Know exactly what they are looking for in that regard?
 

Joshua1

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Nov 18, 2013
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Thanks. How much of a factor is the info IRCC receives from CRA about an applicant? Know exactly what they are looking for in that regard?
I remember finding this info on the CIC website (from the agent point of view) and posted it on a forum but can't recall...
however, again, I can only assume it's for corroboration with the other information you provided. I vaguely remember from what I read that IRCC agents cannot use the CRA information for any other purpose outside of the objectives or scope of the application i.e. they cannot reciprocate or give feedback to CRA agents by sharing information regarding tax discrepancies... maybe that will change or has already changed. But up to recently that was the case.
 
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guddylover

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Dec 31, 2016
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I remember finding this info on the CIC website (from the agent point of view) and posted it on a forum but can't recall...
however, again, I can only assume it's for corroboration with the other information you provided. I vaguely remember from what I read that IRCC agents cannot use the CRA information for any other purpose outside of the objectives or scope of the application i.e. they cannot reciprocate or give feedback to CRA agents by sharing information regarding tax discrepancies... maybe that will change or has already changed. But up to recently that was the case.
Thanks for the input. Just trying to pinpoint what info they share with CIC and what they use the info for in regards to passing the applicant on income tax act requirement. I have been filing my taxes for the past 7 years straight.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Kind of confused here. If applicant's work history is a big factor in assessing residency, then why do citizenship officers focus their interview question on your current job. Is going to school full time for the whole eligibility period enough with couple of partime/coop in BTW?
I suspect my in-depth approach to analyzing relevant factors, including why they are relevant as well as what influence they can have, may encourage overthinking particular factors and to some extent distort the decision-making dynamics.

The vast, vast majority of qualified applicants who submit a properly completed application showing a life lived in Canada, can anticipate their application sailing smoothly through the process, no bumps, no issues, no side roads into non-routine processing, no unusual concerns or suspicions, no delays.

Most applicants do NOT need to worry about this or that detail, this or that wrinkle. They do not need to worry about how strong their case is.

But there are, of course, some factors which obviously increase the risk that a total stranger bureaucrat will have concerns, or questions, or even suspicions. Most applicants want to avoid doing that. Not because they are worried about the outcome, but because they want to be among that vast majority of applicants who sail smoothly through the process and reach the oath without delay.

Not all cases are equally strong. There is wide, wide variations in the particular circumstances in different immigrants' lives. Some circumstances offer a picture which leaves little doubt. Some circumstances offer a picture which may have some blurry parts.

So sure, a student's case probably is not as strong as the case submitted by someone who spent the last four years as a welder in a Bombardier plant. That does not mean the student's case is weak. That does not mean the student will run into delays or non-routine processing. How all the parts come together in the whole picture will make a difference.

For the majority, most of the key factors are what they are. We have lived the life we individually live. Thus, how each prospective applicant approaches making the application, including WHEN to apply, is a very personal decision, one which should depend on an informed assessment of at least the key factors.

For me, one key factor was being self-employed back when, during the reign of Harper, CIC tended to be very skeptical of self-employed applicants. So I waited nearly two extra years before I applied, to secure a solid margin on one hand, and on the other hand to accumulate business records to document my employment in case I was RQ'd. That was a personal choice. I could have applied much, much sooner and I probably would have eventually taken the oath.

In any event, some cases will take a little longer to process than others. We do not all fit a particular cookie-cutter model of an immigrant. Qualified applicants just need to keep their usual records and those should suffice if and when any questions arise.

I tend to address questions on the margins, at the fringe. I examine the more difficult issues. Like applying just two or three days after meeting the minimum requirement, that qualifies, but that is also really cutting-it-close and cutting-it-close has risks. But those are risks which a prospective applicant can recognize and reduce, by just waiting a week or month. Other risks are inherent in who we are, and those risks we simply must deal with. And everyone, no matter how strong their case appears to be on the surface, has some risk of RQ (there have been recent reports of random Quality Control RQ'd cases for example). So all applicants should keep records related to their addresses, work history, travel history, other activities, including current address and current employment . . . just in case IRCC demands proof.


Re questions about current employment during interview:

This is, probably, mostly about establishing a base line understanding about who the applicant is, to get a sense of the applicant generally and a sense of the applicant's credibility in particular. There is no requirement that the applicant be currently employed, for example, so these questions are NOT directly about meeting the qualifications. They are more likely intended as a starting point to see if there are other, more probing questions which need to be asked. For the vast majority, no, the interviewer does not see reason to pursue more probing questions.

A lot, a real lot of what interviewers are doing, is looking to see whether there are reasons to question what the applicant has reported. Testing the water, so to say.
 
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Mah2

Member
Jan 31, 2013
17
1
Please also add my info to the excel file:
My partner and I got our AORs just today! :)
App type: Married
App sent: 11 Oct
App delivered 17 Oct
AOR: Nov 22, 2017
 

optimistic6

Star Member
Jul 21, 2015
144
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I am not sure if you are right about the refugees! I heard somewhere that some permanent residence of Canada my be ineligible for Canadian citizenship based on the question they asked in the application form. Some applicant maybe convicted of a crime in their country may not eligible for Citizenship even they were accepted as a refugee and granted PR but not necessarily citizenship. I know someone convicted of blasphemy law in his home country and he was rejected citizenship even though Canada does not consider blasphemy as a crime. It is sad and does not make sense to me!

Abu Hassan, Canehh, Jasua1, Razerbalde,
Bro, thanks all of you. Really appreciating your value information here. It will not help to my friend only but many others because this is kind of a different case.
After reading all of your comments, It is quite confusing to me.

1- Razerblade, That is only applicable if there were no FIR against you in your home country. I mean FIR not convicted for any crime.

2- Joshua1, that make sense to me that write down an explanation letter and Citizenship application guideline is also advising same. But what should be written in letter ? Any idea ? It is scaring that might be they put the application on hold and also they can check that he did not submit PCC during PR process and take the reason from there.

3- Abu Hassan, are you sure the time which you mentioned 3 yeas 6 months and 1 day ?. I asked from my friend and he arrived in Canada 07-July-2013 but his Physical Presence Calculator Eligibility Period is 25-Dec-2012 because he is submitting his application on 25th Dec or later.

4- As Canehh said that PR can be issued to a person who did crime but citizenship cannot be issued. I guess if you did a crime outside of Canada, even PR will not be issued and CBSA will get all the information against the person and PR will be denied. CBSA has greater cooperation from different world agencies and they are collecting well enough information before giving the green signal to CIC. This is the reason, security part is taking longer and most of the people are stuck in security scrutiny phase. But I wana discuss a bit different case here.

My friend has a refugee case here and he had been approved as a convention refugee because he had been persecuted and prosecuted multiple times in his home country due to his political ideology. Even his home country authorities have filed a fake FIR(First Investigation Report) against him just to pressurize him and he was not convicted for any crime but he left the country. Now if he ask for Police Clearance from his home country, he cannot get that. As per him, might be he can manage to get the PCC but the copy of his FIR has already been in Refugee board and I guess that will make his case worse. Per him, during his PR , he did not submit any Police clearance and his lawyer at that time advised him that you do not need to submit it. And he got PR without any issue.

So now Anyone in this forum has similar case and he already passed through citizenship process, please share to help someone. It will be really appreciable and your valuable information can give a great relief to someone.

I am thanking you all in advance.