Citizenship Applications after Bill C-6

[spyfy]

Lucky you. My application was received on Oct 13 also, sent from Montreal also (in French), and I still haven't heard anything back...
Have you applied in English or in French? Just curious...

Just to clarify one thing: For the AOR part, the city you are applying from is irrelevant. It's only after AOR that the local offices take over.

 

[canehh]

Hi all, figured I'd change up the flavor of questions being asked here. Noticing a lot of people here are knowledgeable so I'm curious to see if folks can help me out with the following.

Some basics about my specific case:
Eligibility period: Nov 1st 2012 to Nov 1st 2017
Status: PR
Days in Canada: 1580 days

- before becoming a PR, I was a Protected Person due to my PRRA application. At the time of my application, I had to surrender my passport, of which they gave me a photocopy (certified true copy, stamped by the immigration officer). This passport, which has been expired in 2011, is well outside my eligibility period. Despite that, should I even bother including it in the passports/travel document section? If yes, shall I include the biographical page copy that they gave me and a notice of seizure?

- I currently have a Canadian travel document. It was issued in 2014 because I used it to travel to Europe for 13 days (included in the presence calculator). Previous to that, I had another Canadian travel document in 2012 (didn't use it for anything really) which I exchanged for my current one. I don't remember when it was issued/expired because that was 5 years ago. Should I include it in the passports/travel document section or should I just include the current one that I have? They have both my expired foreign passport and my previous expired travel document, so do I just tell them to refer to their records for those two particular things?

What I've written for that in the explanation box is:
"Previous to my current Canadian travel document, I had an initial Canadian one (# XXXX) which I returned when I got my current one. Since I don't have it in my possession, I can't recall the precise issue and expiry date, but what I do recall is that it was issued in late 2012 from Gatineau and had a two years validity period.

Previous to that initial Canadian travel document, I had a foreign passport (# XXXX) which is in your possession as well, since March 2011 and I only have a certified true copy from you. I've attached the biographical page of that passport with this submission.

Feel free to check your records for both my previous travel document and for my previous foreign passport, thanks."

Is that fine?

- In the section where it asks what I've been doing during my eligibility period, I'm currently self-employed (incorporated) so do I just put "self-employed" or my corporation name or number? And put myself as the contact person?

Previous to that, I was unemployed for a year due to a layoff, but during that time I moved from my previous place to another one (not my current place), so which address do I input for that period? The initial one where I was when I got laid off or the one where I ended up after moving?

- When I applied for my PRRA, I was issued a conditional removal order. It was revoked though because my PRRA was approved and I then became a PR.

So in the section where it has a list of non-admissible grounds, do I say yes to the question "are you or have you ever been under a removal order?" and if I do say yes, what's the best way to explain?

This is what I wrote:
"I had applied for a PRRA application and a conditional removal order was issued at that time. Once my PRRA application got approved, I was then eligible for permanent residency."

Is that okay?

As you may have noticed, these aren't the usual type of questions being asked here but I'd really appreciate if anyone has some solid input regarding this. I'd love to also even hear directly via inbox from anyone who might have any idea surrounding these queries.

Please let me know if you need additional info and thank you for all your collective help, cheers!

P.S. are there any additional documents/ID's/pages/info that I should be included in my package before I ship it out to them? Any things that you guys have noticed have made a positive difference in processing the application?

I think you need some professional advice rather than someones opinion. You have to make sure you are answering the question 16 accurately. If I were you I would definitely find some professional help here.

 

[spyfy]

Hi all, figured I'd change up the flavor of questions being asked here. Noticing a lot of people here are knowledgeable so I'm curious to see if folks can help me out with the following.

Some basics about my specific case:
Eligibility period: Nov 1st 2012 to Nov 1st 2017
Status: PR
Days in Canada: 1580 days

- before becoming a PR, I was a Protected Person due to my PRRA application. At the time of my application, I had to surrender my passport, of which they gave me a photocopy (certified true copy, stamped by the immigration officer). This passport, which has been expired in 2011, is well outside my eligibility period. Despite that, should I even bother including it in the passports/travel document section? If yes, shall I include the biographical page copy that they gave me and a notice of seizure?

- I currently have a Canadian travel document. It was issued in 2014 because I used it to travel to Europe for 13 days (included in the presence calculator). Previous to that, I had another Canadian travel document in 2012 (didn't use it for anything really) which I exchanged for my current one. I don't remember when it was issued/expired because that was 5 years ago. Should I include it in the passports/travel document section or should I just include the current one that I have? They have both my expired foreign passport and my previous expired travel document, so do I just tell them to refer to their records for those two particular things?

What I've written for that in the explanation box is:
"Previous to my current Canadian travel document, I had an initial Canadian one (# XXXX) which I returned when I got my current one. Since I don't have it in my possession, I can't recall the precise issue and expiry date, but what I do recall is that it was issued in late 2012 from Gatineau and had a two years validity period.

Previous to that initial Canadian travel document, I had a foreign passport (# XXXX) which is in your possession as well, since March 2011 and I only have a certified true copy from you. I've attached the biographical page of that passport with this submission.

Feel free to check your records for both my previous travel document and for my previous foreign passport, thanks."

Is that fine?

- In the section where it asks what I've been doing during my eligibility period, I'm currently self-employed (incorporated) so do I just put "self-employed" or my corporation name or number? And put myself as the contact person?

Previous to that, I was unemployed for a year due to a layoff, but during that time I moved from my previous place to another one (not my current place), so which address do I input for that period? The initial one where I was when I got laid off or the one where I ended up after moving?

- When I applied for my PRRA, I was issued a conditional removal order. It was revoked though because my PRRA was approved and I then became a PR.

So in the section where it has a list of non-admissible grounds, do I say yes to the question "are you or have you ever been under a removal order?" and if I do say yes, what's the best way to explain?

This is what I wrote:
"I had applied for a PRRA application and a conditional removal order was issued at that time. Once my PRRA application got approved, I was then eligible for permanent residency."

Is that okay?

As you may have noticed, these aren't the usual type of questions being asked here but I'd really appreciate if anyone has some solid input regarding this. I'd love to also even hear directly via inbox from anyone who might have any idea surrounding these queries.

Please let me know if you need additional info and thank you for all your collective help, cheers!

P.S. are there any additional documents/ID's/pages/info that I should be included in my package before I ship it out to them? Any things that you guys have noticed have made a positive difference in processing the application?

- If your passport expired in 2011 it expired more than five years ago (It is irrelevant when it was seized, just make sure the date of expiry on the copy you have is in 2011). Ignore this passport completely and make no mention of it anywhere.
- List the travel document that was issued in 2012 and that you no longer have. In the table field "Date of issue" write nothing but "2012, see attached remarks". In "Date of expiry" write "see attached remarks"
- Obviously also list the current travel document with the exact dates.
- Write the suggested explanation in the box just as you suggest, but again make no mention of the passport that expired in 2011. Ignore it.

Regarding your self-employment. These are humans reading the forms. Just write what you think is the most reasonable.

Regarding the removal order: It seems that indeed, yes, you were under a removal order. Tick the appropriate box. I am no lawyer and can't tell you what the best wording as an explanation is. Again, these are humans reading your form. Just be concise. There is no "perfect wording".

Regarding general advice: The most important thing is to - again - not look for the perfect wording or think of the citizenship application as a "game" where you unlock some kind of fast track or whatever depending on using a magic wording. Simply follow the instructions and explain to the best of your knowledge without being overly-wordy (no five page explanations for a single fact if you know what I mean). The biggest problem with this forum (it has many good sides of course) is that it makes you think that there is exactly one way to deal with every field on the form.

Any form will never capture the multitude of very different lives we have all been living. Be flexible, be honest, be to the point. Easy as that.

 

[RanRan]

didENglis

I sent in English The only reason comes to my mind is the well-organized file I had. The officer may have liked to pick my colourful beautifully labeled file

Wish you mentioned this idea of colourful file before I sent my application:

 

[dpenabill]

Hi all, figured I'd change up the flavor of questions being asked here. Noticing a lot of people here are knowledgeable so I'm curious to see if folks can help me out with the following.

. . . . before becoming a PR, I was a Protected Person due to my PRRA application . . .

I agree with the observations posted by spyfy above, but will offer more background and analysis as to why.

The vast, vast majority of discussion about the citizenship application process, in this forum, does not involve a refugee-PR applicant. The body of experience here (personal and derivative), and concurrent research, tends to not involve what can be different for the refugee-PR applicant. There are some important differences. You have well-handled one, regarding not having a valid passport, which is the right way to go about this for a refugee-PR (whereas, in contrast, other applicants, those who are not refugee-PRs, will often encounter some problematic, elevated probing, if there is a long gap during which they do not have a passport -- thus, there has been a tendency to encourage prospective citizenship applicants to keep their passports current, good suggestion for most, but a very bad idea for refugee-PRs).

Thus, as canehh suggests, opinions here are not a reliable source of advice for your more specialized circumstances.

That said, parts of what you ask about are fairly well within the range of more or less known information, and some of your questions may be sufficiently answered by recognizing some general principles in navigating the citizenship application process. (And again, I think spyfy adequately covered your queries above. In particular, I emphatically agree with the statements ". . . write what you think is the most reasonable" and "Any form will never capture the multitude of very different lives we have all been living. Be flexible, be honest, be to the point." Caveat: that is not necessarily easy.)

For example, your approach to the Travel Document item, item 14, makes total sense. The only thing you might want to add in Table B is a statement to the effect "and I have had no other travel documents in the last five years." This is not necessary, since listing your current Refugee-Travel Document and referring to the one you surrendered and referencing no others, is a representation there are no others, but you might want to explicitly say so.

There is no reason to include statements suggesting they refer to their own records and, in particular, you can drop statements like "which is in your possession" and "Feel free to check your records for both my previous travel document and for my previous foreign passport, thanks." IRCC is aware of what they have. And listing your Refugee Travel Document, including a copy, together with referencing the prior one which was surrendered, is a sufficient response for item 14.

REMINDER: since you are not submitting a passport, the instructions state to include TWO pieces of government issued photo-identification. Your travel document, assuming it includes a photograph, should suffice as one. There is serious doubt that the PR card will work as another. Thus, best to submit a drivers' license, provincial health care card (with a photo), or a provincial identification card. (There has been one anecdotal report where a PR card was, apparently, accepted as one of the forms of identification; there are other reports to the contrary; none of the lists of forms of identification at all related to citizenship application processing refers to the PR card as an accepted form of identification. Better to not rely on it as one of the required forms of identification.)


Work/activity history:

For items like the work history and address history, your particular situation has no direct bearing, so general observations about how to answer these items should equally apply to you. If you are incorporated and your income is reported in T4s and the usual formalities in an employer-employee relationship are followed, you can list the company name as the employer. Whether you add "sole proprietor" or some such clarification, somewhere where appropriate and it will fit, is up to you, according to your best judgment as to whether that information should be given in order to give an accurate accounting of your employment. If, for example, you have a business with multiple full time employees (other than family) and a fixed location where the business is done, probably no need to elaborate. If you are the only one actually doing the work, and particularly if your business is essentially one individual, you, employed by others (such as per piece contract), you may consider adding some information so as to be clear that you are essentially a self-employed individual who is incorporated. But that is a judgment call. It has nothing to do with you being a refugee-PR. The technical content of the response is less important than it being an honest accounting of your work history. (This is true for many items, recognizing, however, there are also many items for which the precise content of the response is critical . . . it is usually fairly easy to distinguish which is which.)


Item 16 / Prohibitions / a Removal Order:

To be clear, here too I agree with what spyfy offered.

But it warrants observing that the form and instructions for item 16 are vague and in some respects misleading, one more aspect of the new form which falls well short of clear.

But, obviously, you have been issued a Removal Order, however that order might be characterized. So you need to acknowledge this and check item 16. b rather than 16. a . . . and hope that IRCC is getting this right despite the way it is worded in the form and instructions. (IRCC is probably getting it right.)

What you state in the explanation box does not need to be at all comprehensive. Reference that you are responding to sub-item 16. 4 because you were issued a Removal Order, and just describe the basic facts, dates, that it was attendant the process for becoming a refugee, whatever the basic facts are, and that it was withdrawn or set aside. IRCC has the respective information in your records and will verify what it was and that should be the end of it. That should readily suffice. You might add "This is not a prohibition, and none of the other situations apply to me."

A big problem with the form and instructions is that they suggest if one of the situations applies, that means the applicant is prohibited even though it is not true for all the sub-items.

Previous forms had individual check boxes for each of the sub-items. So for a sub-item like 16. 4, it was easy to make it clear on the face of the form that was the applicable item and explain that even though there was a Removal Order issued in the past, that was resolved, status since is lawful, and it does not constitute a prohibition. No problem.

Or, at least, should be no problem. I have to acknowledge the way IRCC has phrased this item and the instruction is troublesome. The guide instruction in particular seems to affirmatively state that the listed items are prohibitions rather than MAY be prohibitions. Thing is, nearly all of them are prohibitions. Which is why the old form was so much better, rather than a generic yes-something-applies response, referring to a long list consisting of situations which really are prohibitions, the applicant specifically identified which one applied, so it was easy to recognize and distinguish sub-items like 16. 3, 16. 4, or 16. 8, which are the items that could apply to an individual but NOT necessarily constitute a prohibition (depending on the particular facts).

In the past, in this forum, some have proposed an alternative theory about the prohibitions, that the applicant only needs to acknowledge a situation if it actually constitutes a prohibition. The consensus, however, is to directly respond to the item based more or less on what it literally states, and trust that the explanation will direct IRCC in the right direction, to recognize that it does not constitute a prohibition, which it most likely do.


Edit to add: I recognize there are significant differences between certain refugees, as such, and other types of protected persons. But for purposes of the above observations, those differences are not relevant. Note, for example, that protected persons with PR status are as subject to cessation as refugees under the UNHCR programs, which is why it is so important for such PRs to NOT obtain or renew the home country passport (since doing so would create a presumption of reavailment, which is a ground for cessation of protected person status, which if successfully pursued by CBSA would automatically terminate PR status and terminate eligibility for citizenship, and in effect result in loss of any status to live in Canada -- this being one the huge differences for these PRs versus the vast majority here).

 

[MTLBoy]

Update on my spouse file:
AOR received on: Nov 3
1461 days

 

[Redfield]

What’s the email address that sends the AOR ?

 

[MTLBoy]

What’s the email address that sends the AOR ?

xxxxx@cic.gc.ca

 

[com2canada]

What’s the email address that sends the AOR ?

aor@aor.ca

 

[MTLBoy]

A question regarding mailing address:

Receiving my AOR and logging into my account @ CIC website to check the status of my application, I see my home address is correct as indicated in my application sent to IRCC, but surprisingly my mailing address is the very old one I had provided in my PR application related to 5 years ago when I was overseas. I put my mailing and home address the same in my citizenship application. Please advise:
1) anyone has faced the same issue?
2) do I need to contact CIC to ask for a correction?

Thanks

 

[NewUser2018]

A question regarding mailing address:

Receiving my AOR and logging into my account @ CIC website to check the status of my application, I see my home address is correct as indicated in my application sent to IRCC, but surprisingly my mailing address is the very old one I had provided in my PR application related to 5 years ago when I was overseas. I put my mailing and home address the same in my citizenship application. Please advise:
1) anyone has faced the same issue?
2) do I need to contact CIC to ask for a correction?

Thanks

Chill and call them on Monday to update to your current address and to make sure send them a letter on Monday telling them to update your address.

CIC are driving me crazy too, I remember 2014 they sent my initial appointment and also PR CARD to my old address even though they had my current for PR Application address and called them all the time but they were making what I think malice error that I still don't know if my pr card is compromised but they gave me new one. and I applied citizenship 11 OCT 2017 and called them yesterday and unbelievably still have that same address still as current but will see with when I get AOR next few weeks.

 

[ksa0510]

Application Send Date:10/17/2017
Received Date:10/20/2017
Signed for by:Mike
Awaiting AOR.

 

[Mugiwara]

Application Send Date:10/12/2017
Received Date:10/16/2017
Signed for by:M Rdswy
From Trois-Rivières
Awaiting AOR.

 

[loncan]

What’s the email address that sends the AOR ?

"Do Not Reply - Ne Pas Repondre <Client-update-mise-a-jour@cic.gc.ca>"

 

[PP62]

Please add me to Oct sheet. Thanks in advance.
Presence Calculator:1118 days
Application type: Single (Brampton)
Application sent: 10/12
Application Received: 10/13 at 1:45pm via purolator
Signed for: Ryan

only a single trip of 30 days outside Canada within 5 years... ID proof: PR card, Driving License, Health card, COPR.
AOR:Not Yet