Citizenship - 1st or 2nd generation born abroad?

[112canadacalling]

Please would someone advise me if I can get Canadian Citizenship?
My Grandmother was Canadian, she was born there but came to England and married my grandfather in 1945. My father was born in 1950 and moved back to Canada when my Grandfather died when he was a teenager. His birth was registered there in 1965 and his Canadian Citizenship Certificate is dated 1975 (Resumption) I was born in 1978 and my father applied for citizenship for me shortly after I was born. I no longer have this certificate.
Did I have to take steps to retain Citizenship prior to turning 28? Or would I be entitled to citizenship still as my father was born before 1977 and was a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth?

1 - Person born or naturalized in Canada before or after 1977 [3(1)(a), 3(1)(c), 3(1)(d)
And has a child born outside Canada before or after 1977 (if parent naturalized, child born after parent naturalized) [3(1)(b), 3(1)(d), 3(1)(e)]
then the child is not subject to loss and does not have to retain under section 8.
2 - Person born outside Canada before 1977 and registered as a citizen…
-Before 1977 [3(1)(d)]
And has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
Then the child is not subject to loss and does not have to retain under section 8.
-After 1977 [3(1)(e)]
has a child born outside Canada before 1977 and this child also registered after 1977
then the child is not subject to loss and does not have to retain under section 8.
OR

has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
then the child is subject to loss and does have to retain under section 8.
Person born outside Canada after 1977
(1st generation) [3(1)(b)]
has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
then the child is subject to loss and does have to retain under section 8.
OR

To a Canadian parent also born outside Canada [3(1)(b), 3(1)(e)]
has a child born outside Canada after 1977 (3rd generation) [3(1)(b)]
the 3rd generation child is a citizen if born before parent's 28th birthday or born after parent formally retained citizenship. This 3rd generation is also subject to section 8 retention provision.
Person born outside Canada and did not retain citizenship
has a child born outside Canada after loss of citizenship
the child is not a citizen.

Which applies to me if any? Am I a 1st or 2nd generation Canadian born abroad?

 

[screech339]

Please would someone advise me if I can get Canadian Citizenship?
My Grandmother was Canadian, she was born there but came to England and married my grandfather in 1945. My father was born in 1950 and moved back to Canada when my Grandfather died when he was a teenager. His birth was registered there in 1965 and his Canadian Citizenship Certificate is dated 1975 (Resumption) I was born in 1978 and my father applied for citizenship for me shortly after I was born. I no longer have this certificate.
Did I have to take steps to retain Citizenship prior to turning 28? Or would I be entitled to citizenship still as my father was born before 1977 and was a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth?

1 - Person born or naturalized in Canada before or after 1977 [3(1)(a), 3(1)(c), 3(1)(d)
And has a child born outside Canada before or after 1977 (if parent naturalized, child born after parent naturalized) [3(1)(b), 3(1)(d), 3(1)(e)]
then the child is not subject to loss and does not have to retain under section 8.
2 - Person born outside Canada before 1977 and registered as a citizen…
-Before 1977 [3(1)(d)]
And has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
Then the child is not subject to loss and does not have to retain under section 8.
-After 1977 [3(1)(e)]
has a child born outside Canada before 1977 and this child also registered after 1977
then the child is not subject to loss and does not have to retain under section 8.
OR

has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
then the child is subject to loss and does have to retain under section 8.
Person born outside Canada after 1977
(1st generation) [3(1)(b)]
has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
then the child is subject to loss and does have to retain under section 8.
OR

To a Canadian parent also born outside Canada [3(1)(b), 3(1)(e)]
has a child born outside Canada after 1977 (3rd generation) [3(1)(b)]
the 3rd generation child is a citizen if born before parent's 28th birthday or born after parent formally retained citizenship. This 3rd generation is also subject to section 8 retention provision.
Person born outside Canada and did not retain citizenship
has a child born outside Canada after loss of citizenship
the child is not a citizen.

Which applies to me if any? Am I a 1st or 2nd generation Canadian born abroad?

Since you were born abroad to a Canadian after feb 15, 1977, retention rules apply to you. Did you retain your citizenship before turning 28? If you did, you have canadian citizenship. If you failed to retain it, you lost it. The new 2009 law doesn't give citizenship back to those who failed to retain their citizenship.


http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/acquisition/retention.asp

 

[112canadacalling]

But would this not apply to me?

Section 8 defines the second generation as a person who was born outside Canada on or after February 15, 1977 to a parent who:

was born outside Canada between January 1, 1947 and February 14, 1977 and registered as a citizen on or after February 15, 1977, or
was born outside Canada on or after February 15, 1977.

Because my father registered as a citizen prior to 1977 would I not be classed as a first generation Canadian citizen?

 

[screech339]

But would this not apply to me?

Section 8 defines the second generation as a person who was born outside Canada on or after February 15, 1977 to a parent who:

was born outside Canada between January 1, 1947 and February 14, 1977 and registered as a citizen on or after February 15, 1977, or
was born outside Canada on or after February 15, 1977.

Because my father registered as a citizen prior to 1977 would I not be classed as a first generation Canadian citizen?

Yes it only spells out the definition of what a 1st and 2nd generation Canadian is. It doesn't explain how one acquires canadian citizenship. There is a separate clause for that. However retention rules still apply to 2nd generation canadian for those born after Feb 15, 1977. Yes, this applies to you. If you did retain your citizenship, you are by definition a 2nd generation Canadian. If you didn't retain your citizenship by 28, you were a 2nd generation Canadian until age 28. At age 28, you lost it.

 

[screech339]

But would this not apply to me?

Section 8 defines the second generation as a person who was born outside Canada on or after February 15, 1977 to a parent who:

was born outside Canada between January 1, 1947 and February 14, 1977 and registered as a citizen on or after February 15, 1977, or
was born outside Canada on or after February 15, 1977.

Because my father registered as a citizen prior to 1977 would I not be classed as a first generation Canadian citizen?

No, read it again carefully. It says a 2nd generation canadian is anyone born abroad AFTER feb 15, 1977, (that's you) to a canadian parent born between jan 1st, 1947 and feb 14, 1977 (your father). Your father was born BEFORE feb 14, 1977 and you were born AFTER 1977. 2nd generation canadian apply to you until you retain citizenship. Citizenship Retention rule applies to every canadian born aboard after feb 15, 1977 until april 17, 2009. If they retained their citizenship before turning 28, they get to keep and continue their citizenship. If they failed to retain their citizenship by age 28, their citizenship ceased on their 28th birthday.

So the question is this: Did you apply for retention of citizenship before turning 28th on your birthday.

Yes: you have canadian citizenship.

No: you had canadian citizenship until you turned 28. Since age 28, you no longer have canadian citizenship. The new 2009 citizenship law doesn't grant anyone citizenship back if they failed their retention requirement.

 

[112canadacalling]

I emailed the Canadian High Commision in London the same question and this was the response from them:

Thank you for your email. From the information you have provided, it would appear that you do still have Canadian Citizenship, however, a decision can only be made by the case processing centre once a completed application for a replacement document has been received.

Please find below our step-by-step guide for applying for a replacement document.

I think because my father's birth was registered in Canada prior to 1977 and he was granted citizenship prior to 1977 and I was born afterwards the retention rules do not apply to me??

 

[screech339]

if you look closely to the link given you see this: which applies to your case:

3. Person born outside Canada after 1977
•(1st generation) [3(1)(b)]
◦has a child born outside Canada after 1977 [3(1)(b)]
◦then the child is subject to loss and does have to retain under section 8.

OR

(this applies to you)

•To a Canadian parent also born outside Canada [3(1)(b), 3(1)(e)] <---- your father was also born abroad
◦has a child born outside Canada after 1977 (3rd generation) [3(1)(b)] <--- You were born outside Canada after 1977
◦the 3rd generation child is a citizen if born before parent's 28th birthday or born after parent formally retained citizenship.
This 3rd generation is also subject to section 8 retention provision.

Since this means you are a 3rd generation child you are also subject to section 8 retention rules.

Requirements of section 8

There were three requirements for retention of citizenship under section 8 of the Citizenship Act:
•register as a citizen;
•have residence in Canada or a "substantial connection" with Canada; and
•make an application for retention <--- did you submit application for retention before turning 28. Since you never mentioned that you did apply, I will assume you didn't.

 

[alphazip]

Please would someone advise me if I can get Canadian Citizenship?
My Grandmother was Canadian, she was born there but came to England and married my grandfather in 1945. My father was born in 1950 and moved back to Canada when my Grandfather died when he was a teenager. His birth was registered there in 1965 and his Canadian Citizenship Certificate is dated 1975 (Resumption) I was born in 1978 and my father applied for citizenship for me shortly after I was born. I no longer have this certificate.

112canadacalling, let's go back to the beginning. You say that your grandmother was born in Canada, then moved to England, where your father was born in 1950. Since the original citizenship act that took effect in 1947 did not allow mothers (at least not married mothers) to pass citizenship on to their children (see below), I would be interested in knowing how your father gained Canadian citizenship in the first place. The fact that his citizenship certificate says "resumption" implies that he had Canadian citizenship, then lost it, then got it again. If there is a chance that he got citizenship, not by descent, but by naturalization, then you would be considered 1st generation born abroad and retention rules would not apply to you (see below).

"His birth was registered there in 1965..." I know of no mechanism that allowed for the registration at age 15 (way beyond the two years defined in the act*) of a person born abroad, let alone to a Canadian mother. If you have a copy of this "registration," what does it say?

*The 1977 act did allow for a delayed registration of birth abroad, but that doesn't apply to something that occurred in 1965.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/acquisition/retention.asp

"From January 1, 1947 to February 14, 1977, children born outside Canada acquired citizenship only if their birth was registered within two years and they were born in wedlock to a Canadian father or out of wedlock to a Canadian mother."

"Children born outside Canada in the first generation are not subject to loss under section 8. Children born outside Canada in the second or subsequent generations must take steps to retain citizenship before their 28th birthday."

 

[alphazip]

...his Canadian Citizenship Certificate is dated 1975 (Resumption)...

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/acquisition/resumption.asp

"A person who resumes Canadian citizenship is granted citizenship. Any adult who is granted citizenship is required to take the Oath of Citizenship. Resumption of citizenship is not retroactive; the effective date of citizenship is the date on which the Oath is administered and the oath form is signed."

It looks as though your father would not have been considered a Canadian citizen by descent, but rather by grant. This is actually good news, because I would think that it means that you were (see below) in the category of 1st generation born abroad, and therefore not subject to the retention requirement. In this scenario, the fact that your grandmother was born in Canada was not important. All that was important was that your father was granted Canadian citizenship in 1975 and you were born abroad in 1978, and thus a citizen.

Making things more complicated...as of 2009, your father became a citizen by descent (retroactive to his birth) and the 1975 grant is ignored. Thus, as of 2009, you are 2nd generation born abroad. However, the 2009 law did not take citizenship away from anyone who already had it, which is the situation with you.

In summary, you are a Canadian citizen and just have to apply for a replacement certificate.

 

[links18]

Wow, from despair to hope. Good luck to the OP.

 

[112canadacalling]

I have just returned from my first trip to canada ( I want to go back asap) whilst I was there I went and applied for a canadian passport and managed to pick it up before returning to the uk.

I am a canadian

Now the question is are my children canadian? They were born in 1999 2004 and 2008 I wish i'd asked while I was there!!

 

[scylla]

I have just returned from my first trip to canada ( I want to go back asap) whilst I was there I went and applied for a canadian passport and managed to pick it up before returning to the uk.

I am a canadian

Now the question is are my children canadian? They were born in 1999 2004 and 2008 I wish i'd asked while I was there!!

No - they aren't. If they are 18 years old or under, you can sponsor them for PR. Once they are PRs, they can then qualify for citizenship.

 

[112canadacalling]

Please would you explain why they are not? They were born prior to the changes in 2009 and I was a citizen at the time of their birth.

 

[screech339]

Please would you explain why they are not? They were born prior to the changes in 2009 and I was a citizen at the time of their birth.

Because you are citizen born abroad outside Canada or "2nd generation Canadian". 2nd generation Canadian or "canadian by descent" cannot pass on citizenship to their children.

 

[112canadacalling]

But these new rules only came into effect after 2009 and my children were born before 2009 so I would think that they could apply for citizenship but have to take steps to retain it prior to turning 28?