Citizen by double descent? - Grandfather & Crown servant

[camaybe]

Hello all, hoping someone could clarify my eligibility after reading this forum and the IRCC site for the last few days

My grandfather was a Canadian Citizen from birth who fought in the Canadian Army between 1940 and 1945 in WWII, he was deployed to England and fought in mainland Europe. During this time, he met my grandmother in England (a UK Citizen) in 1943, they got married and had my father in 1944, he was born in England.

After the war, my grandfather and grandmother eventually divorced and my grandmother and father stayed in England. My grandfather moved back to British Columbia for the rest of his life. Both my grandfather and grandmother have since passed away.

I have retrieved my grandfather's full military records which shows his Crown service extensively, dates of deployments, and of leave to marry and attend my father's birth.
I also have my grandfather's birth certificate but it is under a different name as he was adopted shortly after birth, this was because his mother passed away unexpectedly and was given up for adoption. My grandfather decided to use his biological parents birth name sometime before joining the Canadian army, however, I believe this was never filed officially, he went by his biological birth name for the rest of his life. To be sure, I requested a change of name record request with Vital Statistics. My father has since requested adoption records for his biological parents to ascertain the original birth certificate (only the next of kin can do this now my grandfather has passed away). I also have my grandparent's UK marriage certificate and my father's birth certificate which has my grandfather's name on as the father.

I was born in England (1987) and a UK Citizen but I currently live in the US as a non-immigrant resident alien. I have run the “Am I a citizen?” test online and it does say that I may be a Citizen. Does anybody know what further criteria is needed to determine further certainty?

I have read a fair amount of conflicting information and I can’t make sense of all of these retroactively applied amendments to the Citizenship Act. Some threads have led me to believe that my father may have to get his Proof of Citizenship certificate first. If anyone can speak from experience or point me in the right direction, I’d greatly appreciate it!

Thank you

 

[hawk39]

At this point the only way to be certain would to apply for the citizenship certificates. It seems that you meet the criteria for eligibility for citizenship by descent as a second generation, as your father was born while your grandfather was still actively serving.

I do not know if you and your father can apply at the same time, but it might be worth trying, given the current processing time and delays at IRCC due to the pandemic. Most likely, your father's application will be sent to Program Support to verify your grandfather's records, so the processing time could be even longer. I would suggest that you mail your applications together as one package, and include a letter of explanation to your own application, asking that your application be processed after your father's if his application is approved. If they won't do that, then your application and the fee would be sent back to you, and you would just have to wait until your father is approved before you can apply for your own.

Good luck.

 

[RossMac]

It all sounds very similar to my previous experience that resulted in a successful citizenship application and I am now a Canadian passport holder. Ignore all the online tests as they only deal with ‘basic’ cases. Both my grandfather and father had passed away which makes it slightly different to yours but I see no reason why you shouldn’t apply before your Dad as you qualify through your grandfather.
My Dad’s birth certificate had my granddad’s Army number clearly marked on it so although he was going by his middle name in the Army we could still piece the links together - I had my grandfather’s death certificate and army records but not an actual birth certificate.
My advice would be to piece your supporting documents together so they tell a short story over a timeline. Mark each document up with a reference (A,B,C etc.) and get the story easy to follow on a single page referencing those documents. Get your application in and then let them come back to you with any questions - the process can take months on a simple case so it’s worth getting the ball rolling. I was asked one question about the name change and it all ran smoothly. My brother applied after my application had been successful. He referenced my own application in his documents and his went through pretty quickly with no questions.
Good luck - I think you’ll be a Canadian citizen within six months!

 

[camaybe]

Thank you both for your responses, this certainly sounds re-enforcing to what I have read elsewhere and trying to make sense of the amendments to the citizenship act over the years.

 

[Canada53]

Hello
Has anyone got any experience of applying for a Canadian Citizenship certificate by descent when their grandfather was Canadian and serving in the UK with the Canadian forces during WW2 when their legitimate parent was born? I'm keen to know what proof of the Crown servant was acceptable. Or if anyone knows the answer?

My parent's birth certificate and my grandfather's marriage certificate both detail my grandfather's military details and service number and i have some proof from the regiment direct, but i have applied for his full service record from Library and Archives Canada but they are saying it will take 2 years to send it to me.

Also, does my parent need to apply for proof of citizenship before me or do i qualify through my grandfather alone?

Would love to hear others who have experienced this or have the knowledge.

Thank you.

 

[camaybe]

Hello Canada53,

First of all, the following is purely from my experience in this process and is only my opinion, please don't take any of it as fact.

If I was you, I would file the application documenting all of the knowledge you have and referencing the request you have made from the Library & Archives. The high commission / consular you apply to should get back and request more information if the processing centre can't find or establish the link they're looking for.
Shortly after I filed and the application was received at the processing centre, the consulate emailed back asking for a copy of my grandfathers first birth certificate from his biological birth parents, I managed to retrieve this information and sent it forward via email to the high commission. This didn't slow down the process for me.

In your case, I think they should be able to co-operate with the archives and link it all together, but I am not positive.

As it seems both your parent and yourself are already citizens (if you're applying for proof), it shouldn't be required that your parent need apply for proof of citizenship as well but it wouldn't harm to file both your applications together with a cover note including as much information about your grandparents' history and timeline.

Lastly, here are two links to the specific legislation and amendments of which were relevant to my situation and perhaps maybe to you as well. (I've highlighted sections that I think are of importance)

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/overview/history-legislation.html

Bill C-24: Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act
Bill C-24, the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act, received royal assent on June 19, 2014, and represents the first comprehensive reform to the Citizenship Act since 1977. The Act contains a range of legislative amendments to further improve the citizenship program. The changes in the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act came into force at various dates following royal assent. All of the changes came into force on June 11, 2015.
Of the many changes, Bill C-24 extended citizenship automatically on that date to more people who were born before the Canadian Citizenship Act took effect on January 1, 1947 (April 1, 1949, in the case of Newfoundland and Labrador), who did not acquire Canadian citizenship on either of those dates, as well as to their children who were born outside Canada in the first generation. Bill C-24 also automatically extended citizenship on that date to British subjects neither born nor naturalized in Canada (or neither born nor naturalized in Newfoundland and Labrador) and were ordinarily resident in Canada on January 1, 1947 (on or before April 1, 1949, in the case of Newfoundland and Labrador), and who did not acquire Canadian citizenship on January 1, 1947 (or April 1, 1949, or before that date in the case of Newfoundland and Labrador).
Bill C-24 also extended the Crown servant exception to the first-generation limit to citizenship by descent to include the grandchildren of serving Crown servants. This means that citizenship was extended to a child of a Canadian parent who was born or adopted outside Canada to a serving Crown servant (i.e., the child’s grandparent who was employed outside Canada in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, the federal public administration, or the public service of a province or territory, otherwise than as a locally engaged person, at the time of birth or adoption of the child’s parent). This change came into force on June 19, 2014, retroactively to April 17, 2009, the date where the first-generation limit was first introduced.

https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/AnnualStatutes/2014_22/FullText.html

5. The Act is amended by adding the following after section 5.1:
Marginal note:
Citizenship by way of grant under section 5.1  — grandchild of person in service abroad

Feel free to reach out directly with any other questions regarding timelines, processing etc.

Good luck!

 

[Canada53]

Hello Canada53,

First of all, the following is purely from my experience in this process and is only my opinion, please don't take any of it as fact.

If I was you, I would file the application documenting all of the knowledge you have and referencing the request you have made from the Library & Archives. The high commission / consular you apply to should get back and request more information if the processing centre can't find or establish the link they're looking for.
Shortly after I filed and the application was received at the processing centre, the consulate emailed back asking for a copy of my grandfathers first birth certificate from his biological birth parents, I managed to retrieve this information and sent it forward via email to the high commission. This didn't slow down the process for me.

In your case, I think they should be able to co-operate with the archives and link it all together, but I am not positive.

As it seems both your parent and yourself are already citizens (if you're applying for proof), it shouldn't be required that your parent need apply for proof of citizenship as well but it wouldn't harm to file both your applications together with a cover note including as much information about your grandparents' history and timeline.

Lastly, here are two links to the specific legislation and amendments of which were relevant to my situation and perhaps maybe to you as well. (I've highlighted sections that I think are of importance)

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/overview/history-legislation.html


https://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/AnnualStatutes/2014_22/FullText.html


Feel free to reach out directly with any other questions regarding timelines, processing etc.

Good luck!

Dear Camaybe

Thank you for your reply and for all your information. It sounds like i need to submit with what i have and that i can apply without my parent applying.

Your situation sounded very similar to mine. From the dates on your messages it looks like you must have applied recently so i hope you got your certificate ok or you get it soon, and that you can change 'camaybe' to 'caforsure'. Good luck and thank you.

 

[camaybe]

Yes, I also agree you can apply without your parent.

Fortunately, I was able to expedite my application and I have since received my certificate.

@admin Please change my username from 'camaybe' to 'caforsure'

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Yes, I also agree you can apply without your parent.

Fortunately, I was able to expedite my application and I have since received my certificate.

@admin Please change my username from 'camaybe' to 'caforsure'

I have been trying to change mine for years now LOL. No luck.