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CIT 0520 after citizenship test

bambino

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I forgot to mention something. When I crashed another citizenship ceremony the other day, a lady I know happened to be there taking her oath. She had renewed her passport and surrendered her old one, and that of course became an issue at her interview after the test. She was given CIT 0520 as well, and within a month after submitting her response, she was scheduled for the ceremony.

This, and so many other things, leads me to believe that there is no "queue", in the egalitarian and fair sense people usually understand that term. Why would the same office prioritize the processing of additional documents of someone who applied more than a year later, and was issued CIT 0520 6 months after I was?
 

djoli

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The answer is plain and simple: they (CIC) give priority to new applications (2014 and newer) than old applications (2009/2010/2011/2012/2013). I myself know a few people that I applied in 2014 and received their oath within weeks after submitting their CIT520. But for most of us in the 36+ months in processing you are talking about at least 6 additional months of wait time related to CIT0520, it is just not fair at all.

bambino said:
I forgot to mention something. When I crashed another citizenship ceremony the other day, a lady I know happened to be there taking her oath. She had renewed her passport and surrendered her old one, and that of course became an issue at her interview after the test. She was given CIT 0520 as well, and within a month after submitting her response, she was scheduled for the ceremony.

This, and so many other things, leads me to believe that there is no "queue", in the egalitarian and fair sense people usually understand that term. Why would the same office prioritize the processing of additional documents of someone who applied more than a year later, and was issued CIT 0520 6 months after I was?
 

ItkExpert

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bambino said:
I forgot to mention something. When I crashed another citizenship ceremony the other day, a lady I know happened to be there taking her oath. She had renewed her passport and surrendered her old one, and that of course became an issue at her interview after the test. She was given CIT 0520 as well, and within a month after submitting her response, she was scheduled for the ceremony.

This, and so many other things, leads me to believe that there is no "queue", in the egalitarian and fair sense people usually understand that term. Why would the same office prioritize the processing of additional documents of someone who applied more than a year later, and was issued CIT 0520 6 months after I was?

I personally know few more cases like this (14' applicants and CIT0520 recipient receiving oaths within weeks). Not to mention that 14' routine applicants are sometimes given the oath on the spot , whereas 2011-2012 applicants wait for months for the oath after the officer has approved their case.
 

ItkExpert

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bambino said:
I forgot to mention something. When I crashed another citizenship ceremony the other day, a lady I know happened to be there taking her oath. She had renewed her passport and surrendered her old one, and that of course became an issue at her interview after the test. She was given CIT 0520 as well, and within a month after submitting her response, she was scheduled for the ceremony.

This, and so many other things, leads me to believe that there is no "queue", in the egalitarian and fair sense people usually understand that term. Why would the same office prioritize the processing of additional documents of someone who applied more than a year later, and was issued CIT 0520 6 months after I was?
I have said it in a different threads that female applicants usually (!) get better treatment from CIC than male applicants. As a living example, my wife whom I sponsored to come here got her citizenship in about a year and this includes RQ. Whereas I am waiting for 32 months an counting. And I know many more such examples from reading forums.
 

dpenabill

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CIT 0520 and Observations about Processing Residency Cases:



I. Request for documents, CIT 0520, Is NOT RQ-lite

Misconceptions about CIT 0520 pervade forums like this largely due to people extrapolating generalities from their specific case.

The form is precisely what it says it is, a request for specific documentation. While the documentation requested is often relevant to residency, the form is used for many purposes, for any circumstance in which CIC has a question and a particular document is deemed to be relevant to that question.

Since this form is used for various purposes, in various circumstances, time line parameters cannot be validly extrapolated based on the experience of other individuals who received and replied, timely and responsively, to a CIT 0520 document request . . . for some applicants the request was simple, perhaps little more than perfunctory, perhaps little more than a matter of quality control and record-keeping, in which case it results in no delay in the scheduling of the oath. For others, the request is more probing and the response may not fully resolve the reason why CIC made the request, resulting in further processing.

The most pervasive misconception is that the CIT 0520 is RQ-lite, or for those applicants who have already been issued and responded to RQ, a second-RQ.



II. CIT 0520 for those who have already been issued and responded to RQ:

It is correct that a large number of long-haul RQ'd applicants (such as what djoli reports) received the CIT 0520 this past year as CIC has tackled the backlog of residency cases. This, I suspect, was largely a one-time processing phenomena given the extent of the backlog and how old a large number of the applications in the backlog were, hence the need to update the information . . . or, in many of these instances this may have been largely an effort by CIC to ascertain whether the applicant was still living in Canada and would respond, and those who did not respond timely had their applications terminated (deemed abandoned).

Caution: For those RQ'd years ago and who remain in the long-haul for a long time after responding to the CIT 0520, I strongly suspect the risk of the case being referred to a Citizenship Judge is high. Many such applicants will probably still, eventually, be scheduled for the oath, but many will instead be scheduled for a CJ hearing. These days, being scheduled for a CJ hearing means it is highly likely that CIC has gathered reasons why the application should be denied and the referral will be, in effect, a memorandum arguing against approval. Applicants in this situation should seriously consider obtaining the assistance of a reputable, competent lawyer.



III. CIT 0520 for those who have not been RQ'd but are issued the request following the test/interview:

It is also correct that following the test and interview, some applicants are given or later sent the CIT 0520 requesting specific documents, and often times this request is related to CIC's assessment of the applicant's residency. This is not RQ-lite but rather is still in the range of verifying documents and information submitted in the application, done to confirm or clarify something. While it will often relate to residency it does not indicate that CIC has identified a reason-to-question-residency. These are not residency cases, unless CIC subsequently decides to deem the application a residency case.

Again, there is wide variety in what is requested and why, and for many the request is simple, the response easily satisfies whatever concern initiated the request, and there is a minimal impact on how long it takes for the oath to be scheduled. For others, CIC conducts further review, perhaps makes additional inquiries, or even issues RQ.


IV. Residency Cases:

When a reason-to-question-residency is identified, CIC issues RQ and the application becomes a residency case and will remain a residency case unless and until CIC is satisfied as to (1) the applicant met the residency requirement by being actually physically present 1095+ days in the relevant time period, and (2) the applicant's submissions effectively prove the applicant was present in Canada all days the applicant declared presence. The latter is almost as important as the first. Ordinarily CIC must be satisfied as to both of these, or the application will remain a residency case destined for thorough scrutiny with substantial risk of eventually being required to attend a CJ hearing.

To be clear: the applicant whose residency calculation states 1153 days of APP is not in the clear if the evidence submitted documents APP for 1095 days. If CIC is not persuaded (satisfied) the evidence submitted proves all 1153 days (within whatever margin of allowable error CIC currently employs), a residency case will likely continue to be a residency case.

There is some conflict in the case law of late about whether the failure to prove the precise number of days present is a sufficient ground, in itself, to conclude the applicant failed to prove residency, and therefore deny citizenship, but at least some of the cases reflect that CIC and some CJs are taking this approach, and some Federal Court justices are affirming the reasonableness of this. As best I can sort the cases out, the reasoning is that essentially if there is doubt about the actual number of days present, that is sufficient doubt about the applicant's declaration to justify a finding there was a failure to prove residency.

Problem is that in most if not all these cases it looks like the applicants went to the CJ hearing without a lawyer, so the record itself is not nearly so well documented as it would ordinarily be if a lawyer participated in the CJ hearing on behalf of the applicant. By the time the CJ's decision is made, it is too late to mount an argument that the record sufficiently documents 1095 days of actual presence and that suffices to establish residency . . . unless of course the record reflects that argument was made, backed up by the evidence, and the only inferences which can reasonably be drawn from the evidence supports that conclusion. Thus, while lawyers make this argument before the Federal Court, the argument is easily dismissed as an effort to re-argue the evidence.

Remember: When these cases go to an appeal, the Federal Court is not deciding the facts, not concerned with whether or not the applicant met the residency requirement. That is, the Federal Court is not examining whether or not the CJ's decision is correct or not. Correctness is not the standard of review.

Thus, in fact, a convincing argument in the Federal Court that the CJ was not correct is NOT a reason for overruling the CJ's decision. The Federal Court is only concerned with whether or not the CJ's decision was a reasonable outcome based on the record in the case. The Federal Court justice may very well be persuaded the CJ was wrong but still uphold the CJ's denial of citizenship so long as the CJ stated proper reasons for the decision.
 

Rayan14

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bambino said:
I forgot to mention something. When I crashed another citizenship ceremony the other day, a lady I know happened to be there taking her oath. She had renewed her passport and surrendered her old one, and that of course became an issue at her interview after the test. She was given CIT 0520 as well, and within a month after submitting her response, she was scheduled for the ceremony.

This, and so many other things, leads me to believe that there is no "queue", in the egalitarian and fair sense people usually understand that term. Why would the same office prioritize the processing of additional documents of someone who applied more than a year later, and was issued CIT 0520 6 months after I was?
Could you please explain why you went to a federal court for your citizenship application? Thanks
 

ItkExpert

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dpenabill said:
CIT 0520 and Observations about Processing Residency Cases:



I. Request for documents, CIT 0520, Is NOT RQ-lite

Misconceptions about CIT 0520 pervade forums like this largely due to people extrapolating generalities from their specific case.

The form is precisely what it says it is, a request for specific documentation. While the documentation requested is often relevant to residency, the form is used for many purposes, for any circumstance in which CIC has a question and a particular document is deemed to be relevant to that question.

Since this form is used for various purposes, in various circumstances, time line parameters cannot be validly extrapolated based on the experience of other individuals who received and replied, timely and responsively, to a CIT 0520 document request . . . for some applicants the request was simple, perhaps little more than perfunctory, perhaps little more than a matter of quality control and record-keeping, in which case it results in no delay in the scheduling of the oath. For others, the request is more probing and the response may not fully resolve the reason why CIC made the request, resulting in further processing.

The most pervasive misconception is that the CIT 0520 is RQ-lite, or for those applicants who have already been issued and responded to RQ, a second-RQ.



II. CIT 0520 for those who have already been issued and responded to RQ:

It is correct that a large number of long-haul RQ'd applicants (such as what djoli reports) received the CIT 0520 this past year as CIC has tackled the backlog of residency cases. This, I suspect, was largely a one-time processing phenomena given the extent of the backlog and how old a large number of the applications in the backlog were, hence the need to update the information . . . or, in many of these instances this may have been largely an effort by CIC to ascertain whether the applicant was still living in Canada and would respond, and those who did not respond timely had their applications terminated (deemed abandoned).

Caution: For those RQ'd years ago and who remain in the long-haul for a long time after responding to the CIT 0520, I strongly suspect the risk of the case being referred to a Citizenship Judge is high. Many such applicants will probably still, eventually, be scheduled for the oath, but many will instead be scheduled for a CJ hearing. These days, being scheduled for a CJ hearing means it is highly likely that CIC has gathered reasons why the application should be denied and the referral will be, in effect, a memorandum arguing against approval. Applicants in this situation should seriously consider obtaining the assistance of a reputable, competent lawyer.



III. CIT 0520 for those who have not been RQ'd but are issued the request following the test/interview:

It is also correct that following the test and interview, some applicants are given or later sent the CIT 0520 requesting specific documents, and often times this request is related to CIC's assessment of the applicant's residency. This is not RQ-lite but rather is still in the range of verifying documents and information submitted in the application, done to confirm or clarify something. While it will often relate to residency it does not indicate that CIC has identified a reason-to-question-residency. These are not residency cases, unless CIC subsequently decides to deem the application a residency case.

Again, there is wide variety in what is requested and why, and for many the request is simple, the response easily satisfies whatever concern initiated the request, and there is a minimal impact on how long it takes for the oath to be scheduled. For others, CIC conducts further review, perhaps makes additional inquiries, or even issues RQ.


IV. Residency Cases:

When a reason-to-question-residency is identified, CIC issues RQ and the application becomes a residency case and will remain a residency case unless and until CIC is satisfied as to (1) the applicant met the residency requirement by being actually physically present 1095+ days in the relevant time period, and (2) the applicant's submissions effectively prove the applicant was present in Canada all days the applicant declared presence. The latter is almost as important as the first. Ordinarily CIC must be satisfied as to both of these, or the application will remain a residency case destined for thorough scrutiny with substantial risk of eventually being required to attend a CJ hearing.

To be clear: the applicant whose residency calculation states 1153 days of APP is not in the clear if the evidence submitted documents APP for 1095 days. If CIC is not persuaded (satisfied) the evidence submitted proves all 1153 days (within whatever margin of allowable error CIC currently employs), a residency case will likely continue to be a residency case.

There is some conflict in the case law of late about whether the failure to prove the precise number of days present is a sufficient ground, in itself, to conclude the applicant failed to prove residency, and therefore deny citizenship, but at least some of the cases reflect that CIC and some CJs are taking this approach, and some Federal Court justices are affirming the reasonableness of this. As best I can sort the cases out, the reasoning is that essentially if there is doubt about the actual number of days present, that is sufficient doubt about the applicant's declaration to justify a finding there was a failure to prove residency.

Problem is that in most if not all these cases it looks like the applicants went to the CJ hearing without a lawyer, so the record itself is not nearly so well documented as it would ordinarily be if a lawyer participated in the CJ hearing on behalf of the applicant. By the time the CJ's decision is made, it is too late to mount an argument that the record sufficiently documents 1095 days of actual presence and that suffices to establish residency . . . unless of course the record reflects that argument was made, backed up by the evidence, and the only inferences which can reasonably be drawn from the evidence supports that conclusion. Thus, while lawyers make this argument before the Federal Court, the argument is easily dismissed as an effort to re-argue the evidence.

Remember: When these cases go to an appeal, the Federal Court is not deciding the facts, not concerned with whether or not the applicant met the residency requirement. That is, the Federal Court is not examining whether or not the CJ's decision is correct or not. Correctness is not the standard of review.

Thus, in fact, a convincing argument in the Federal Court that the CJ was not correct is NOT a reason for overruling the CJ's decision. The Federal Court is only concerned with whether or not the CJ's decision was a reasonable outcome based on the record in the case. The Federal Court justice may very well be persuaded the CJ was wrong but still uphold the CJ's denial of citizenship so long as the CJ stated proper reasons for the decision.
How is it even possible to determine residency to granularity of a day if there are no exit records at Canadian borders and ports ?
 

dpenabill

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ItkExpert said:
How is it even possible to determine residency to granularity of a day if there are no exit records at Canadian borders and ports ?
Please forgive me for not simply, directly answering this question up front, but I feel compelled to couch an answer in a way which emphasizes that very few citizenship applicants need to worry about this.

This question, about how to prove presence, might seem to be the critical question, but it is not because, first and foremost, the vast majority of applicants are not compelled to submit much proof beyond what the application requires and responding to questions in the interview.

Moreover, for that very small percentage of applicants actually faced with this issue, which would be those applicants at high risk for a residency case hearing with a Citizenship Judge, there is no simple answer. The answer is necessarily very case specific, based on the particular facts and circumstances in that case, and frankly, for most in this situation the best answer probably is to hire a good, competent, reputable lawyer.

I will nonetheless elaborate in a separate, new topic titled "Proof of Residency if Case Destined for a CJ Hearing."
 

walrus189

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Apr 6, 2013
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dpenabill said:
Please forgive me for not simply, directly answering this question up front, but I feel compelled to couch an answer in a way which emphasizes that very few citizenship applicants need to worry about this.

This question, about how to prove presence, might seem to be the critical question, but it is not because, first and foremost, the vast majority of applicants are not compelled to submit much proof beyond what the application requires and responding to questions in the interview.

Moreover, for that very small percentage of applicants actually faced with this issue, which would be those applicants at high risk for a residency case hearing with a Citizenship Judge, there is no simple answer. The answer is necessarily very case specific, based on the particular facts and circumstances in that case, and frankly, for most in this situation the best answer probably is to hire a good, competent, reputable lawyer.

I will nonetheless elaborate in a separate, new topic titled "Proof of Residency if Case Destined for a CJ Hearing."
dpenabill,
In your opinion, at which stage of the review does the applicant get the CIT 0520. I noticed from my ATIP a note stating that "RQ case-preliminary review completed; referred to level 2 decision maker for final decision." I suspect this is the new review process since there will be no judge involved unless application is denied. Would the request come after the preliminary review or from the decision maker?
 

dpenabill

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walrus189 said:
dpenabill,
In your opinion, at which stage of the review does the applicant get the CIT 0520. I noticed from my ATIP a note stating that "RQ case-preliminary review completed; referred to level 2 decision maker for final decision." I suspect this is the new review process since there will be no judge involved unless application is denied. Would the request come after the preliminary review or from the decision maker?
To be clear: I am NOT an expert. And I am not qualified to offer advice in specific, individual cases.

In fact, I should correct a statement of mine above; even though the CIT 0520 request is used in various contexts, for somewhat different purposes, I just learned today that CIC is specifically using this form to request "supplemental" documentation that is residency related. I would still say it is not RQ-lite, or a second-RQ (for applicants who are sent the CIT 0520 request some time after they submitted a response to RQ), since again it is not a request which, in itself, indicates the case is deemed a residency case (even though, obviously, RQ may follow and the case then deemed a residency case . . . RQ can be issued any time right up to the taking of the oath), but rather is what it says it is, a particularized request for a specific, supplemental document or documents.

Just as RQ can be issued any time, so too can a CIT 0520 request. There are some typical stages in which it is issued, if it is issued: preliminary to scheduling test and interview; following test and interview; or for those whose RQ'd application has been in process for a long time after the test and submission of the response to RQ, it appears to be issued when a Citizenship Officer is (finally) preparing to do the final assessment. But again, at any stage of processing when a case worker or officer is working on the file, the CIT 0520 request could be issued.

I do not know for sure, but it is my sense that the issuance of the CIT 0520 to already RQ'd applicants has been part of CIC's efforts to deal with the huge backlog of RQ'd cases which have been, essentially, in limbo for a long period of time. It is more or less (my sense) a follow-up, in part to confirm applicant is responding to communication sent to address of record, in part to update some information, in part to add documentation confirming information or documentation previously submitted, all to facilitate a Citizenship Officer finally evaluating the case and making a decision as to the next step.

In particular, my sense is that most RQ'd applicants will NOT be later sent a CIT 0520 request.

There are other participants in this and other forums who are more familiar with the meaning or import of certain entries in the GCMS (what you obtained in response to your ATIP request). I cannot read much into the note stating that "RQ case-preliminary review completed; referred to level 2 decision maker for final decision."

Obviously what you would like to know is whether this signals review as a residency case still or a review on track for the Minister's approval and grant of citizenship. I cannot read either into such a note. Again, perhaps there are others here more familiar with the import of such a note in the GCMS records.

The former, review as a residency case, would not be good news but not necessarily really bad news. It would mean the process is likely to drag on longer than you'd prefer, and remains at risk for a negative assessment, but many of these cases probably go on to be approved and citizenship granted with no referral to a CJ.

The latter, review on track for the Minister's approval, would be good news, since this would likely result in your being scheduled for the oath in the near future.

My guess is that the "level 2 decision-maker" is a Citizenship Officer, but I am not at all sure of this. And even if it is, that would not clearly indicate what sort of review this is for.

Thus, again, I cannot discern from such a note which way it points.

In the meantime, though, depending on how long your case has been pending since you submitted a response to RQ, you may or may not be sent a request for further supplemental documents.


Regarding the new process . . . no judge involved unless application is denied . . .:

Technically CIC is not describing the decision to refer a case to a Citizenship Judge as denying the application. Frankly, my opinion is that it is in fact a decision of that nature, and thus should be subject to procedural fairness requirements, including sending a formal notice of the decision to applicants. But so far CIC appears to treat this as merely internal processing, not a formal step.

It is true, though, also technically, that it is not a formal denial, but rather simply an in fact declining to grant citizenship while the application is referred to a CJ for a hearing. The CJ is the one who formally decides whether or not the application is to be denied based on a failure to prove residency.

But, correct, the only cases which are being referred to a CJ now are those which CIC has, in effect, declined to grant citizenship . . . technically it is a case for which CIC is "not satisfied" residency has been established, but for all intents and purposes, if a case is being referred to a CJ now, that means CIC has not only denied the grant of citizenship but is mostly likely submitting a negative referral arguing why the CJ should also deny approval.
 

janoo

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Hi.. all. here is my situation.... applied Jan. 2012. RQ March 2013 return RQ April 2013.

Since than nothing in atip report nor with CIC, than I was told my file assign to officer

in November 2014. Now they are saying my file need RCMP clearance than

processing will proceed to next step.... Any idea how long it will take for clearance

and what will be the next step. due to my age test is exempted....

40 months since apply....
 

bambino

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RCMP clearances appear to take from 4 to 6 weeks, if there are no complications.

In my case, CIC made the request to renew my RCMP clearance on April 2, and it was completed as of yesterday, so that's a bit over three weeks. Perhaps renewals are more straightforward and take less time.
 

chikloo

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bambino said:
RCMP clearances appear to take from 4 to 6 weeks, if there are no complications.

In my case, CIC made the request to renew my RCMP clearance on April 2, and it was completed as of yesterday, so that's a bit over three weeks. Perhaps renewals are more straightforward and take less time.
Is your local office Montreal?
 

bambino

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No, Edmonton. It was transferred to Montreal just like yours was a week or so ago.
 

chikloo

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bambino said:
No, Edmonton. It was transferred to Montreal just like yours was a week or so ago.
When did you log your mandamus case and when did they ask you to withdraw the case