Choosing immigration process as an American

[karabas]

Hi folks!

I hope it's ok that I'm starting a new topic - I tried to browse through the super long stickies, but there's quite a lot of stuff on there and I wasn't sure what to search for. Basically, I have a few questions, here's my background first:

I'm American, I met my wife in 2010 while studying in Canada, we married in Nov 2011, and she came to live with me in the US in July 2012 as a visitor while I applied for her immigration to the US. That's taking longer than expected and she went back to Canada in July 2013 while we're waiting for her green card to come through. I'm now considering going up to Canada instead as both my wife and I have been offered to do religious studies with a stipend at a small institution in Canada (I'm not sure if they're able to sponsor me as a student). So here are my questions:

1) I would want to visit the US while waiting for PR (I have family there and right now the processing times from the East coast are ~20 months) - does this mean I should do the outland route?

2) If go via inland route, will I be allowed to cross into Canada if I tell them that my intention is to stay with my wife and apply for inland immigration from there? (I don't want to lie, that's not an option). Do I still need to have my apartment in the US? I can't afford it if I'm not working.

3) Will I be able to extend my 6 month stay in Canada while waiting for the PR to come through? I don't think they stamp American passports when driving across...

4) If I'm going via the outland route, will I be allowed to cross into Canada if I tell them that my intention is to stay with my wife, apply for an extension, and wait for my PR to come through? Can I bring the stuff from our apartment in the US along?

5) Is there any way for me to work legally in Canada while waiting for the PR?

I tried reading up online, but things are pretty confusing, so I'd really appreciate some help! Thanks guys!

--- Karabas

 

[truesmile]

Welcome to the forum! Here goes:

1) Yes, if you want to leave Canada for more than just the odd vacation, for that reason you would apply "outland".
2) Use the word "visit" instead of "stay", they let you in as an American without saying anything. Up to you how much you volunteer. I always say, "just answer their questions and get to the point". Up to you about the apartment.
3) Yes.
4) Yes, again use the word "visit", not "stay", "move", or "live".
5) There is, but only if you apply "inland". If you do apply inland, then send in an application for an OWP (open work permit) along with your "inland" application for PR.

 

[NicAnn]

Hi folks!

I hope it's ok that I'm starting a new topic - I tried to browse through the super long stickies, but there's quite a lot of stuff on there and I wasn't sure what to search for. Basically, I have a few questions, here's my background first:

I'm American, I met my wife in 2010 while studying in Canada, we married in Nov 2011, and she came to live with me in the US in July 2012 as a visitor while I applied for her immigration to the US. That's taking longer than expected and she went back to Canada in July 2013 while we're waiting for her green card to come through. I'm now considering going up to Canada instead as both my wife and I have been offered to do religious studies with a stipend at a small institution in Canada (I'm not sure if they're able to sponsor me as a student). So here are my questions:

1) I would want to visit the US while waiting for PR (I have family there and right now the processing times from the East coast are ~20 months) - does this mean I should do the outland route? Might be best
2) If go via inland route, will I be allowed to cross into Canada if I tell them that my intention is to stay with my wife and apply for inland immigration from there? (I don't want to lie, that's not an option). Do I still need to have my apartment in the US? I can't afford it if I'm not working. What we (my husband and I) heard is that you have to stay in Canada because it depends on the border guard's discretion whether to allow you back in if you cross the border.
3) Will I be able to extend my 6 month stay in Canada while waiting for the PR to come through? I don't think they stamp American passports when driving across...
It again depends on the person that is making the decision; maybe yes maybe no
4) If I'm going via the outland route, will I be allowed to cross into Canada if I tell them that my intention is to stay with my wife, apply for an extension, and wait for my PR to come through? Can I bring the stuff from our apartment in the US along? You cannot bring anything into Canada with the intention of leaving it in Canada. You have to wait until you get PR and then declare it when you enter when you land

5) Is there any way for me to work legally in Canada while waiting for the PR? no, at least not that I know of

I tried reading up online, but things are pretty confusing, so I'd really appreciate some help! Thanks guys!

--- Karabas

 

[karabas]

Welcome to the forum! Here goes:

1) Yes, if you want to leave Canada for more than just the odd vacation, for that reason you would apply "outland".
2) Use the word "visit" instead of "stay", they let you in as an American without saying anything. Up to you how much you volunteer. I always say, "just answer their questions and get to the point". Up to you about the apartment.
3) Yes.
4) Yes, again use the word "visit", not "stay", "move", or "live".
5) There is, but only if you apply "inland". If you do apply inland, then send in an application for an OWP (open work permit) along with your "inland" application for PR.

Thanks for the quick reply guys!

I meant odd vacations with regards to the US. I have family here, I'd like to visit them once in a while. Can I still do that while applying inland?

Usually they ask at the border how long you plan on visiting - if I'm being honest, I'd say "however long I can stay legally until I get my PR" - would they have an issue with that? It's legal to come for a visit and apply for PR from within as far as I understand (it's problematic when applying for residency in the US), so they shouldn't have an issue, right?

 

[truesmile]

The members have said "yes" you can BUT the problem is, if ever they don't allow you re-entry then your application will be abandoned and you must start over again.

Think it's best to have a more specific time frame for your response. One member here suggested that he always answered "two weeks", but then stayed longer since 6 months was always still allowed. I always suggest getting a NEXUS card, it takes 8 weeks, is only $50 and will last you 5 years. It's an advantage to have whether you are 'in process', PR, or EVEN a Canadian Citizen.

 

[computergeek]

1) I would want to visit the US while waiting for PR (I have family there and right now the processing times from the East coast are ~20 months) - does this mean I should do the outland route?

You should do the outland route - it is almost always faster for a US Citizen than the inland route (many people complete Outland in 6-8 months but Inland stage 1 is at 11 months). If you have special circumstances then it might make sense to do inland.

2) If go via inland route, will I be allowed to cross into Canada if I tell them that my intention is to stay with my wife and apply for inland immigration from there? (I don't want to lie, that's not an option). Do I still need to have my apartment in the US? I can't afford it if I'm not working.

Absolutely. Americans routinely stay in Canada while their Outland application is processed. Note: "Outland" refers to where your application is being processed, not where you are located. There are special restrictions for Inland (e.g., you must be living in Canada with your sponsor) but you can be anywhere for an Outland application. And, lest you think American's are the only geographically confused ones, a US applicant's paperwork will usually be processed by Ottawa - a visa office outside Canada.

3) Will I be able to extend my 6 month stay in Canada while waiting for the PR to come through? I don't think they stamp American passports when driving across...

Yes. They don't usually stamp them, but you can ask for them to issue you a visitor record (and I'd do so once you have the sponsor approval letter. Prior to that it's best to show the application fee receipt. These demonstrate to CBSA you are serious. It's also a good idea to have your sponsor with you. Not necessary, but having the Canadian there to vouch for you helps.)

4) If I'm going via the outland route, will I be allowed to cross into Canada if I tell them that my intention is to stay with my wife, apply for an extension, and wait for my PR to come through? Can I bring the stuff from our apartment in the US along?

Yes, you will be permitted to enter. Bringing stuff is more problematic. Small things are fine, but I strongly suggest against bringing much - it will not be duty free at that point in time. When you become a Permanent Resident you get one shot at bringing in your personal possessions duty free.

5) Is there any way for me to work legally in Canada while waiting for the PR?

Absolutely! You need to get a work permit. To do so, you must either find a job with a company willing to obtain a Labour Market Opinion (LMO) giving them permission to hire you OR you need to obtain a job offer in a NAFTA category position (technical/professional/managerial positions mostly) in which case the position is LMO exempt. For NAFTA jobs, you just need the qualifying job offer, evidence you have the necessary skills, two photographs, $150, your passport and a completed application. Then you show up at the border and request your work permit. 20 minutes later (plus queue time) you have a NAFTA work permit. Note: with a work permit, you can bring your personal possessions in temporarily (they are temporary for the first three years, so you import them permanently when you land as a PR.)

 

[karabas]

You should do the outland route - it is almost always faster for a US Citizen than the inland route (many people complete Outland in 6-8 months but Inland stage 1 is at 11 months). If you have special circumstances then it might make sense to do inland.

Thanks for a thorough response, much appreciated

You say 6-8 months, but what I read on CIC is 2 months stage 1 and 18 months for stage 2 on the east coast (20 if applying through the west coast) - do these just vary a lot on average? But if so, that means some people take as long as 28 months...

 

[NicAnn]

The members have said "yes" you can BUT the problem is, if ever they don't allow you re-entry then your application will be abandoned and you must start over again.

That is the problem...and also if for whatever reason you get denied for your PR application, you have a chance for an appeal with outland and you do not get an appeal with inland. Those were the main reasons we chose to apply outland.

The problem with a 6 month visitor visa is that it is up to the border guard's judgment as to how he wishes to interpret whether a person can re-enter Canada once leaving. We asked at different border crossing locations and got different opinions on how the rules should be followed. One location said the visitor visa is only good while you stay in Canada and voids when you leave. Another location we were told we would be free to enter and leave, but might still be denied re-entry at the border guard's discretion. All it would take is one border guard who interprets the rules in such a way as to not allow re-entry and then you are back at square one. We didn't want to chance it.

 

[MilesAway]

There is no "east coast" or "west coast", all are sent to CPP-Ottawa. If you need an interview, then they generally transfer it to either New York or LA, which have higher processing times because of that.
Most US-Canadian couples are done in 8 months or so, while the site shows a processing time of 14 months for CPP-Ottawa. The time on the site is not an average or an exact time, it's the time it took to complete 80% of all applications received and processed there. So some exceptional cases do take longer than that, but the majority are done in less time.

 

[computergeek]

Thanks for a thorough response, much appreciated

You say 6-8 months, but what I read on CIC is 2 months stage 1 and 18 months for stage 2 on the east coast (20 if applying through the west coast) - do these just vary a lot on average? But if so, that means some people take as long as 28 months...

There is no "east coast" or "west coast". ALL applications go to Ottawa. They choose to forward some complex files to NYC or LA. So looking at the 80% time for complex cases is not a good way of doing analysis unless you expect issues in your application. Do you have prior criminality issues? Will you need an ARC because you've been deported before? Is there some reason you think that CIC will doubt the legitimacy of your relationship?

And if you go look at the full data set, the 50% time is a better indicator of actual time for most non complex files.

So maybe you've left out details here that make you think you want to go through the inland route (though if you have relationship concerns you're still better off Outland for the IAD appeals option).

 

[QuebecOkie]

I'd say the only real advantage to an inland application for US citizens is that you can apply for an OWP. However, this ends up not being much of an advantage if stage one takes 11 months (many take less; CIC is currently reporting that 80% of inland applicants have received stage one approval within 11 months). In 11 months, you could be mostly or totally done with an outland application, and once you're a PR, you can work.

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks for a thorough response, much appreciated

You say 6-8 months, but what I read on CIC is 2 months stage 1 and 18 months for stage 2 on the east coast (20 if applying through the west coast) - do these just vary a lot on average? But if so, that means some people take as long as 28 months...

Majority of US apps are processed through Ottawa. Just take a look at the latest people in the Ottawa thread, and how long their entire process took. http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/cppottawa-t118769.4110.html
Most seem to be in the 8-10 months timeframe.

Stats on the CIC website are not accurate or reliable, so it's better to check the experiences of people actually going through the process currently to get the best idea of what times you can expect.

 

[computergeek]

Mine (last year) was 96 days from sponsor approval to ppr. And that was when CPP-O was just getting started.

A well prepared application with all fees paid up front is definitely the way to get things done as fast as possible.

As for those times, I'd recommend checking the detailed data at the open data project as it shows 20, 30, 50, 70 and 80% time figures. The 50% figure is better for complete straightforward applications.

 

[Canuckluvus]

You should do the outland route - it is almost always faster for a US Citizen than the inland route (many people complete Outland in 6-8 months but Inland stage 1 is at 11 months). If you have special circumstances then it might make sense to do inland.

Absolutely. Americans routinely stay in Canada while their Outland application is processed. Note: "Outland" refers to where your application is being processed, not where you are located. There are special restrictions for Inland (e.g., you must be living in Canada with your sponsor) but you can be anywhere for an Outland application. And, lest you think American's are the only geographically confused ones, a US applicant's paperwork will usually be processed by Ottawa - a visa office outside Canada.

Yes. They don't usually stamp them, but you can ask for them to issue you a visitor record (and I'd do so once you have the sponsor approval letter. Prior to that it's best to show the application fee receipt. These demonstrate to CBSA you are serious. It's also a good idea to have your sponsor with you. Not necessary, but having the Canadian there to vouch for you helps.)

Yes, you will be permitted to enter. Bringing stuff is more problematic. Small things are fine, but I strongly suggest against bringing much - it will not be duty free at that point in time. When you become a Permanent Resident you get one shot at bringing in your personal possessions duty free.

Absolutely! You need to get a work permit. To do so, you must either find a job with a company willing to obtain a Labour Market Opinion (LMO) giving them permission to hire you OR you need to obtain a job offer in a NAFTA category position (technical/professional/managerial positions mostly) in which case the position is LMO exempt. For NAFTA jobs, you just need the qualifying job offer, evidence you have the necessary skills, two photographs, $150, your passport and a completed application. Then you show up at the border and request your work permit. 20 minutes later (plus queue time) you have a NAFTA work permit. Note: with a work permit, you can bring your personal possessions in temporarily (they are temporary for the first three years, so you import them permanently when you land as a PR.)

My wife is a US citizen and we applied "Outland" for her PR via Family Sonsorship in March 2013. Our sponsorship application was approved in less than a month. She received her passport request on September 25, 2013 and the CIC website was updated with Decision Made on October 15, 2013. This means we are waiting for the COPR form any day now so she can land. In contrast, one of my work colleagues applied to sponsor her husband of 10 years Inland a week later. He is not a US citizen but Croatian. However, Croatia is also visa exempt like the US. She is still waiting for her her sponsorship approval. They applied Inland because they wanted him to be able to work. However, he can't get a work permit until Stage 1 (sponsorship) is approved. I don't think he can leave Canada until the application is approved either. It looks like my wife will get her PR and be able to work if she wants long before my friends sponsorship application is even approved! For us "Outland" was the best choice. Even though my wife can go over the border to visit her family we chose not to take the risk. We applied for and received 2 Six month extensions for her visitor status. The second one is probably going to arrive same day as the COPR...lol...wonder if we can get a refund if we do. I highly recommend paying all immigration fees up front. I think it likely helps speed up the process and shows serious intent. Good luck!

 

[karabas]

Thanks so much everyone, the advice here really helps. I don't think we have any factors that would make them doubt our marriage - US immigration didn't and we've been living together since we've applied for that. It seems that outland is the way to go in our situation.

Really appreciate all the advice!