Child born to a Canadian Citizen outside Canada

[Keith Moon]

If you are using the child's passport as one of their ID documents the below applies to you---


From the application instructions http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/CIT0001ETOC.asp#pay-fee :

If this application is for your first citizenship certificate

• Then provide clear and legible certified copies of your documents

Who can certify copies?
Persons authorized to certify copies include the following:

In Canada:

• a notary public
• a commissioner of oaths
• a commissioner of taking affidavits

Authority to certify varies by province and territory. Check with your local provincial or territorial authorities.

Outside Canada:

• a notary public

Authority to certify international documents varies by country. Check with your local authorities.

Applicants themselves or members of their family may not certify copies of your documents. This includes a parent, guardian, sibling, spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner, grandparent, child, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew and first cousin.

Certified true copies
To have a photocopy of a document certified, an authorized person must (as described below) compare the original document to the photocopy and must print the following on the photocopy:

• “I certify that this is a true copy of the original document”,
• the name of the original document,
• the date of the certification,
• his or her name,
• his or her official position or title, and
• his or her signature.

What I did, living outside of Canada, was I took all of her ID as well as mine, photocopied it, and then had a notary public certify my signature on the copy as a "true copy of the original". The notary public then stamped/sealed it, and signed underneath attesting to my oath/signature.

Thanks. I know about getting a notary to certify the copy as a "true copy". My question is really about using a copy of a passport as ID. I thought I remembered reading that copies of passports DID NOT have to be certified but now I'm unsure. Does anybody know?

 

[Keith Moon]

Also, I would appreciate if someone would please confirm: since I have to submit a certified copy of each kid's birth certificate, can that submission also serve as an Identity Document - in other words do double duty? Or do I have to come up with another Identity Document alongside the passport IN ADDITION TO the birth certificate (thereby having for all intents and purposes 3 identity docs)?


Thanks in advance.

 

[Going through]

Thanks. I know about getting a notary to certify the copy as a "true copy". My question is really about using a copy of a passport as ID. I thought I remembered reading that copies of passports DID NOT have to be certified but now I'm unsure. Does anybody know?

I can only tell you my experience---I had the same question when I was filling out the form for my daughter, and was advised on here to get the photocopy of the passport notarized since it was one of the identifying documents being submitted. And also that because it was a "first time application" copies of identity documents must be certified (as outlined in the application instructions I linked to in my earlier reply.).

I guess since you used the child's passport as their identity document, it falls into the requirement of the copy needing to be certified. Sorry you got your application sent back, mine was sent back (before I got my AOR) for not checking a box on the very last question...so I feel your frustration.

 

[Keith Moon]

I can only tell you my experience---I had the same question when I was filling out the form for my daughter, and was advised on here to get the photocopy of the passport notarized since it was one of the identifying documents being submitted. And also that because it was a "first time application" copies of identity documents must be certified (as outlined in the application instructions I linked to in my earlier reply.).

I guess since you used the child's passport as their identity document, it falls into the requirement of the copy needing to be certified. Sorry you got your application sent back, mine was sent back (before I got my AOR) for not checking a box on the very last question...so I feel your frustration.

Can't we just go to the register of deeds to get a certified copy of the birth certificate? They offer them and after all, they ARE the issuing authority. In my mind that carries more weight than a notary public.

 

[alphazip]

I can only tell you my experience---I had the same question when I was filling out the form for my daughter, and was advised on here to get the photocopy of the passport notarized since it was one of the identifying documents being submitted. And also that because it was a "first time application" copies of identity documents must be certified (as outlined in the application instructions I linked to in my earlier reply.).

I guess since you used the child's passport as their identity document, it falls into the requirement of the copy needing to be certified. Sorry you got your application sent back, mine was sent back (before I got my AOR) for not checking a box on the very last question...so I feel your frustration.

I don't know who advised you to have identity documents certified, but that's not what it says on the Document Checklist:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0014E-2.pdf

Under "Identity documents" it says "copy", not "original" or "certified copy." When I sent in my application for proof of citizenship, I sent regular, non-certified copies of my ID, and I received a citizenship certificate.

 

[alphazip]

Can't we just go to the register of deeds to get a certified copy of the birth certificate? They offer them and after all, they ARE the issuing authority. In my mind that carries more weight than a notary public.

Of course you can. You can send an original (i.e. a certificate issued by the appropriate government agency) or a certified copy. Keep in mind, though, that the certificate will not be returned to you.

 

[alphazip]

So I finally got a reply. It seems they are stating my application is incomplete because my kids' IDs are not certified copies.

Can somebody please confirm: passport copies DON'T need to be certified, right?

That seems strange and is contrary to what it says in the "Document Checklist." . Can you please tell us exactly what the letter says?

 

[Keith Moon]

That seems strange and is contrary to what it says in the "Document Checklist." . Can you please tell us exactly what the letter says?

Sure, I will rewrite it verbatim. It says:

"This child's application for a citizenship certificate was considered incomplete and was not processed and fees were not taken. The application and proof of payment are therefore returned to you for the following reasons:

(check mark) The photocopies of the child's identity documents are missing or are not clear. See section "Step 1 - Gather Documents" in the instruction guide.​

(check mark) You have not submitted two identification documents for the child

​

(check mark) You have not enclosed copies of supporting documents certified by an authorized person. We are unable to accept photocopies that are not certified because it is the child's first application for citizenship certificate. See section "Step 1 - Gather Documents " in the instruction guide"

​

Then it gives me two options: resubmit with the correct docs, or request a refund. Obviously I would prefer to do the former.


In the Document Checklist I submitted, they highlighted two areas:

Identity Documents: Two (2) pieces of information

I submitted a copy of the kids' passports and their birth certificates.


The second place they highlighted was under "Scenario 3" next to "birth certificate" - they highlighted "Certified Copy".


It was my intention that the birth certificate act as one of the Identity Documents but they seem to imply that a birth certificate is not acceptable in that role. It seems that I need to produce a certified birth certificate and ALSO some other ID document, like a school record or something. They DID include a list of acceptable documents to establish identity and although they state that it's not a complete list, I can't help noticing that a birth certificate is NOT included. This sounds completely ridiculous to me but OK - gotta play ball.

I guess after writing this I feel like I know what to do but would be happy for input here. It still seems patently absurd that a birth certificate should not be acceptable to use as an ID document. It seems like it's about as quintessential an ID document as I could imagine.

 

[Going through]

I don't know who advised you to have identity documents certified, but that's not what it says on the Document Checklist:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0014E-2.pdf

Under "Identity documents" it says "copy", not "original" or "certified copy." When I sent in my application for proof of citizenship, I sent regular, non-certified copies of my ID, and I received a citizenship certificate.

In the instruction guide (that I linked to in a prior reply) under "Gathering Documents" it states to have documents certified if applying for the first time.
On the application that you linked to above, it also says this near the top of the page in bold.

Luckily for you, your application was accepted as completed---obviously the OP's was not. Guess it all depends on how stringent the person doing the initial review of the application wants to be?

 

[alphazip]

Sure, I will rewrite it verbatim. It says:

"This child's application for a citizenship certificate was considered incomplete and was not processed and fees were not taken. The application and proof of payment are therefore returned to you for the following reasons:

(check mark) The photocopies of the child's identity documents are missing or are not clear. See section "Step 1 - Gather Documents" in the instruction guide.​

(check mark) You have not submitted two identification documents for the child

​

(check mark) You have not enclosed copies of supporting documents certified by an authorized person. We are unable to accept photocopies that are not certified because it is the child's first application for citizenship certificate. See section "Step 1 - Gather Documents " in the instruction guide"
​

Then it gives me two options: resubmit with the correct docs, or request a refund. Obviously I would prefer to do the former.


In the Document Checklist I submitted, they highlighted two areas:

Identity Documents: Two (2) pieces of information

I submitted a copy of the kids' passports and their birth certificates.


The second place they highlighted was under "Scenario 3" next to "birth certificate" - they highlighted "Certified Copy".


It was my intention that the birth certificate act as one of the Identity Documents but they seem to imply that a birth certificate is not acceptable in that role. It seems that I need to produce a certified birth certificate and ALSO some other ID document, like a school record or something. They DID include a list of acceptable documents to establish identity and although they state that it's not a complete list, I can't help noticing that a birth certificate is NOT included. This sounds completely ridiculous to me but OK - gotta play ball.

I guess after writing this I feel like I know what to do but would be happy for input here. It still seems patently absurd that a birth certificate should not be acceptable to use as an ID document. It seems like it's about as quintessential an ID document as I could imagine.

I was an adult when I applied, so I sent a copy of my passport and driver's license, neither of them certified. I can't say for sure what is acceptable for a child, but I don't think the problem is certification. I think what may have happened is that they saw an uncertified copy of the birth certificate and assumed you were sending that, not as ID, but rather as your child's evidence of birth. Of course, the evidence of birth has to be an original or certified copy. I have not looked back at your previous posts to see whether you did or did not include that required document. So, it looks to me like what you should have done is 1) included original or certified copies of your child's birth certificate and the Canadian parent's birth certificate, and 2) sent another copy of the birth certificate and the child's passport as ID. The latter should probably have been stapled together and marked as ID. Of course, at this point you may wish to take the safer course of finding a second form of ID for your child.

 

[Keith Moon]

I was an adult when I applied, so I sent a copy of my passport and driver's license, neither of them certified. I can't say for sure what is acceptable for a child, but I don't think the problem is certification. I think what may have happened is that they saw an uncertified copy of the birth certificate and assumed you were sending that, not as ID, but rather as your child's evidence of birth. Of course, the evidence of birth has to be an original or certified copy. I have not looked back at your previous posts to see whether you did or did not include that required document. So, it looks to me like what you should have done is 1) included original or certified copies of your child's birth certificate and the Canadian parent's birth certificate, and 2) sent another copy of the birth certificate and the child's passport as ID. The latter should probably have been stapled together and marked as ID. Of course, at this point you may wish to take the safer course of finding a second form of ID for your child.

So as far as that second form of ID, what kind of school record is acceptable?

 

[alphazip]

In the instruction guide (that I linked to in a prior reply) under "Gathering Documents" it states to have documents certified if applying for the first time.
On the application that you linked to above, it also says this near the top of the page in bold.

Luckily for you, your application was accepted as completed---obviously the OP's was not. Guess it all depends on how stringent the person doing the initial review of the application wants to be?

That refers to the documents that need to be certified, e.g. birth certificate. For example, if I were to lose my citizenship certificate and need another, I would not need to include an original or certified copy of my birth certificate, just a copy.

Your reading of that statement cannot be correct, because it would mean that for an initial application, everything on the list would have to be certified. Why then are certain things marked as "certified copy," "original", etc., when, for a replacement, all that has to be sent are copies?

In another thread nyguy2 wrote: "As far as certification, if you meet scenario #3 on CIT 0014E (document checklist) you should only need your birth/citizenship certificate certified and your child's birth certificate listing both parents certified. For the two pieces of identification for the applicant with one bearing a photo, those don't need to be certified copies."

He also received his certificate.

 

[alphazip]

So as far as that second form of ID, what kind of school record is acceptable?

Send whatever school record you can get, and also make another copy of the birth certificate and attach that too, along with the passport. Label them as Identity Documents.

 

[Keith Moon]

Send whatever school record you can get, and also make another copy of the birth certificate and attach that too, along with the passport. Label them as Identity Documents.

Good call - I'll carpet bomb them - total overkill.

 

[Keith Moon]

Send whatever school record you can get, and also make another copy of the birth certificate and attach that too, along with the passport. Label them as Identity Documents.

Wow, I just went through a horrible, Kafkaesque experience with North Carolina state bureaucrats and found out that the "True Copy" form can no longer be used by notaries public in North Carolina to certify birth certificates and some other forms. To get a certified copy of a birth certificate you must get it from the issuing Register of Deeds or the state Vital Records office.

I don't think Canada cares about this but North Carolina sure as heck does. Ugh.

The "True Copy" form CAN still be used by notaries in NC for passports, school records, and immunization records. The list of which docs can and can't be used should be in the 2016 edition of the notary's handbook.

More information on this can be found here:

http://www.sosnc.gov/authen/​

Also, to "certify" multiple documents you can list them in the affidavit form which can be found linked to that web site under "Sample Documents". You can list them all (the woman I spoke to at the Office of Authentication said up to 5, which should cover anyone here) on the affidavit form (the numbers only go up to 2, but you can hand-write more) and use that in lieu of having multiple "True Copy" forms floating around.

Hope this helps somebody. It was like pulling teeth to get this information from the state.