Child born overseas - TRV and TRP denied, please help.

[oleg_k]

Hello to all!

Kindly asking you to either share your experience on getting TRP or to provide me with some advices. And please excuse the long letter.

My situation: Me, my wife and daughter (13 years) are PR holder. Landed in Oct 2008, in a week after this had to return to Ukraine because of my parent health issues. In Dec 2008 my son was born. Now everything is settled with my parents, we decided to return to Canada. Moreover my wife is pregnant and due on mid March 2011. So we want to return as soon as possible to get her Medical Plan insurance.

My actions: After all the readings and phone calls I decided to go the TRV-TRP way in the Canadian embassy in Kyiv, Ukraine. Submitted TRV and specified that the reason is to bring child to Canada to be sponsored. Got expected refusal same day. Asked what to provide to ask for TRP, they told me just express your request in the letter. Next day I brought the letter asking for TRP for my son. In the letter I explained why we were out of Canada for 2 years and specified following:

There are reasons we can do this only by getting as whole family back to Canada
- I cannot leave my family behind as it would cause hardship on the baby and family (baby is only 1 year 10 months old, my wife is due)
- I cannot go to Canada alone and start sponsorship there as I cannot leave my wife alone with 2 children and upcoming delivery (she is due in the middle of March), without causing serious hardship on them
- I strongly believe in family union and its importance for successful life of the individual, family and society

There are reasons our family needs to return to Canada right now:
- We intend on further fulfilling our permanent resident obligations (while we were absent we have been fulfilling them into the maximum extends by filing our Tax Returns to CRA)
- My wife is due in middle of March and we need to get back to our residence place in Canada in order to pass the waiting period on Medical Service Plan (almost 3 months), so we have to be back to Canada not later than beginning of the December.

After a couple of hours of waiting I've got refusal letter. Quoting:

I have considered the facts of the case and have weighted them against the submission, and have concluded that these are not sufficiently compelling to warrant issuance of a TRP. You have not provided any substantiating information to support your application, specifically explaining why you were or are not in the position to return to Canada to sponsor your son as a member of the Family Class.
Signed by Councellor (Immigration)
Immigration Program Manager

To say I was shocked is to say nothing about my state. They suggested me to leave my child and pregnant wife for about year or so! Is this a "humane and compassionate reasons" or "best interest of the child"? Then I approached clerk and asked him to clarify - what kind of information or documents are missing to support my case, and if I can talk to the officer that made this decision to get explanations. The answer was "No you can't talk to him. This is YOUR case and you better know WHAT you need to submit". My reasoning that this is not standard case, that there is no check-lists and forms did not help me. I was really shocked how the case involving baby and pregnant woman was treated.

So now, I am thinking what I can do.
1. I can try to resubmit TRP request several times. Most likely they'll charge me for each time of 150$, but the problem that there is no clear understanding what is required and the chances I'll throw my money on the wind. I do not understand the wording "why you were or are not in the position to return to Canada", because I clearly stated - I cannot do this as my absence would cause hardship on my family (pregnant wife, almost 2 year-old son and daughter). Also I mentioned that it would be too hard for wife - to give a birth and take care about 2 babies and 1 teenager. What's not clear about this? The wording "why you WERE or ARE" - did he expect that I provided documents about my mother and father being in hospital? So he expected documents about why I WERE not able to return? Or it's just a wording? Or may be my arguments are clear but I need to provide hospital forms/documents that my wife is pregnant and due on mid-March? I am confused, and I am confused I did not get any explanations from consulate.
I think I could try another TRP submission, I also could add that if I go alone and sponsor my 2 year old son and also our baby that is going to be born in March 2011 - it will take about a year and my wife will loose it's PR status - as I would be in total more then 3 years out of 5 required to keep PR status. Will this reason work? Worth mentioning?
Could the financial reasons help? - It's twice expensive to rent appts in Kyiv and Vancouver, rather then to rent only one in Vancouver.
2. I also considering to apply for sponsorship outside of the Canada, there are chances that it could work, but high chances it will stuck in the same Kyiv office and my wife will have to give birth in Ukraine, not in Canada - it would be even harder financially to sponsor 2 babies.
3. Help of lawyer is also considered, though I have doubtes that I can do this financially speaking and I assume there will be no guarantee If there were guarantee I could afford the lawyer, but without - no...

Please share your suggestions and experience. Any help will be much appreciated.

 

[scylla]

#2 won't work. As a PR, you must be living in Canada to submit the application. Only Canadian citizens are permitted to submit applications from outside of Canada.

 

[SimpleMan]

The only solution is for you to return to Canada and sponsor your son. Sponsoring a child is very quick since there is no need for background check. I suggest that you don't waste your money on the fees, these people are happy to take your money and they don't care about your family.
And they will just waste your time. Sometimes I get the feeling that these officers enjoy seeing the pain of other people and they enjoy being in the position of power and have control on people's lives.

 

[matthewc]

Unfortunately if they are refusing to issue a TRP, then the only option is a temporary separation. If this means your new child is born outside Canada, you will have to sponsor them as well. You can try submitting another request for a TRP, but it's likely a waste of money if - as it seems - this embassy is being exceptionally difficult.

 

[heatherusa]

Have your wife and daughter return to Canada and your wife sponsor your son - that way the new baby will be born in Canada and you dont have to add to your problems.

 

[oleg_k]

Thank you everybody for your comments. I really appreciate it. I think I will try to add some documents proving my case and do another submission, as temporary separation would extremely hard for my wife and really not easy for me.

 

[oleg_k]

Hello.

Just want to update you all about the progress. I hope it will be helpful to somebody. I decided to request TRP second time, supported with all documents that I thought would help with the case ((these were medical records showing my parents hospitalizations, letter from my employer stating employer is aware about my return to CA and is keping the contract, tax returns information, medical record of my pregnant wife). And I got second TRP refusal. Anyway officer did not find it compelling to grant TRP. The seasons were "you could return to CA earlier" (despite the medical records and my right to stay outside of the Canada for 3 years) and "you are not documented your actual ties to CA or what plans you actually made to resume your residence in CA". This is in line with what I've been told

So my only option, the one I wanted to avoid is temporary separation from my 2-years son
Me, my pregnant wife and my daughter will return for Canada ASAP, as it's already the time to start getting MSP before the birth. My son will stay with my wife's parents, we tried it for week and it went well (except it's really hard for adults to be separated from such a small and adorable baby). Immediately I'll start the sponsorship process. After the birth my wife could return back to son and wait for his documents approval.

Thus I have a question - can I ask for some kind document (TRV or TRP) to get my son back to Canada as soon as I returned to Canada and filed sponsorship documents? I assume this will be compelling fact that we want to re-establish our residence.
So - is it possible to get child to Canada while his sponsorship is in process. If yes - how? And where should send that kind of request?

Thank you in advance.

P.S. A lesson to all PRs with baby born overseas - do not rely on the idea you will get TRV or TRP, may be yes, may be not. Do not count on it! Consider the worst case scenario!

 

[Asif_786]

I have same situation, landed in 2008. Had a kid last year outside Canada, rest of the family had PR and we want to return. After TRV refusal I didn't tried for TRP and have decided to sponsor my kid from Canada. I will be landing in Dec Ist week and preparing sponsorship and immigration docs for my kid right now. I totally agree that TRV/TRP are the most ambiguous and confusing process related to Canadian immigration.

Oleg,When are you planning to land and apply sponsorship? How much delay Christmas vacations will add? Sponsoring without having a job is okay?

Lets be in touch to share experience going forward.

 

[oleg_k]

Hello Asif,
Same here - will return in Canada in about two weeks, and file sponsorship right away. I'm not sure about Christmas delay, for sure there will be some. I expect about 40 days to get approved as sponsor, and about 6 months until the PR visa is issued to son. In theory absence of job or your financial status will not affect your eligibility to sponsor your child.
Are you going to wait for visa or you planning to apply for TRV/TRP again?

 

[Asif_786]

Hi,

I will wait for VISA. no more TRV/TRP. Can you please share the list of docs prepared for your kid:

1344A
IM0008
Medical report (IM1017)
Photographs
Birth Certificate
Child registeration
Photocopy of Passport
....

Have you deposited the fee online?

Thanks,
Asif

 

[oleg_k]

Will reply in PM to keep topic free from off-topic.

 

[Leon]

Thus I have a question - can I ask for some kind document (TRV or TRP) to get my son back to Canada as soon as I returned to Canada and filed sponsorship documents? I assume this will be compelling fact that we want to re-establish our residence.
So - is it possible to get child to Canada while his sponsorship is in process. If yes - how? And where should send that kind of request?

Once you are in Canada, you should go to see your member of parliament and tell your story. MP's can sometimes pull strings with immigration. No guarantees but sometimes it helps. You can also try for the TRP again once you have been approved as a sponsor. At least some of the reasons they refused before will not be there any more like intent to go back to Canada as you will already be in Canada at that point.