Changing Visitor to SOWP after wife finish ESL and start diploma DLI

[andresfconcha]

Hi,
My wife finished her ESL and started to study in January for her Diploma in a DLI institution. I had to apply visitor record and now I have a visitor extension until Sept 2023.

We already applied on Nov 2022 to change my status to SOWP and for her to have the Study permit with the work permit. We are very worried because we have been in Canada for almost a year, spending our savings without the opportunity to work and raise some money. The questions are:

1. Could we go to do flagpole if we have an online application running?
2. The time in my country for the Work permit is only 2 months but inside Canada is 6-8 months, could I withdraw my application and apply again from my country outside Canada while I am living in Canada?

 

[Naturgrl]

Hi,
My wife finished her ESL and started to study in January for her Diploma in a DLI institution. I had to apply visitor record and now I have a visitor extension until Sept 2023.

We already applied on Nov 2022 to change my status to SOWP and for her to have the Study permit with the work permit. We are very worried because we have been in Canada for almost a year, spending our savings without the opportunity to work and raise some money. The questions are:

1. Could we go to do flagpole if we have an online application running?
2. The time in my country for the Work permit is only 2 months but inside Canada is 6-8 months, could I withdraw my application and apply again from my country outside Canada while I am living in Canada?

1. If you are eligible to flagpole. Do you have a valid TRV? You have a visitor extension but not a valid TRV? A visitor record lets you stay in Canada but once you leave, you need a TRV to re-enter. See below.
2. Not sure what you mean. What is a work permit of two months but inside Canada 6-8 months. Do you mean processing? How can you apply for a work permit if you are not in your country?

The following foreign nationals are permitted to Flagpole:

1. Residents of visa-exempt countries with an LMIA-exempt job.
2. Residents of visa-exempt countries in possession of a positive LMIA.
3. Residents of the U.S., St. Pierre & Miquelon and Greenland.
4. Residents of visa-required countries already in possession of a study or work permit (flagpoling for the purposes of renewal).

Your SOWP is not guaranteed either. It can be refused.

 

[andresfconcha]

1. If you are eligible to flagpole. Do you have a valid TRV? You have a visitor extension but not a valid TRV? A visitor record lets you stay in Canada but once you leave, you need a TRV to re-enter. See below.
2. Not sure what you mean. What is a work permit of two months but inside Canada 6-8 months. Do you mean processing? How can you apply for a work permit if you are not in your country?

The following foreign nationals are permitted to Flagpole:

1. Residents of visa-exempt countries with an LMIA-exempt job.
2. Residents of visa-exempt countries in possession of a positive LMIA.
3. Residents of the U.S., St. Pierre & Miquelon and Greenland.
4. Residents of visa-required countries already in possession of a study or work permit (flagpoling for the purposes of renewal).

Your SOWP is not guaranteed either. It can be refused.

Naturgirl thank you for your answer, I really appreciate your time to read and answer.

Please let me add this information:

1.Yes, I have a valid TRV (visitor visa) for 10 years multiple entry.

2. Yes I mean the time of processing a work permit is 2 months from my country and Canada 6-8 months. About applying from my country I was thinking what would happened if I had traveled to my country and send the application from there (maybe it would have been faster ).

Considering Flag Poling:

I think we are in number 4 in your list, but I don’t have a study or work permit because I am visitor (my wife has study permit until 2025), who will go to do the flagpole, Just me or both? (We are afraid because my wife doesn’t have US visa, but she and I have a valid Canadian visitor visa ).

We are very worried because we only have money for a couple of months more, we are here with our two little sons and our current country money each day is more devaluated vs C$ and add the inflation . Without work permit we cannot raise money and work under the table is illegal so It is not an option for us, in the next months we will not have food in our table, it is so frustrating

Thank you so much!!

 

[canuck78]

Naturgirl thank you for your answer, I really appreciate your time to read and answer.

Please let me add this information:

1.Yes, I have a valid TRV (visitor visa) for 10 years multiple entry.

2. Yes I mean the time of processing a work permit is 2 months from my country and Canada 6-8 months. About applying from my country I was thinking what would happened if I had traveled to my country and send the application from there (maybe it would have been faster ).

Considering Flag Poling:

I think we are in number 4 in your list, but I don’t have a study or work permit because I am visitor (my wife has study permit until 2025), who will go to do the flagpole, Just me or both? (We are afraid because my wife doesn’t have US visa, but she and I have a valid Canadian visitor visa ).

We are very worried because we only have money for a couple of months more, we are here with our two little sons and our current country money each day is more devaluated vs C$ and add the inflation . Without work permit we cannot raise money and work under the table is illegal so It is not an option for us, in the next months we will not have food in our table, it is so frustrating

Thank you so much!!

If you are not from a visa exempt country you are not eligible to flagpole at the border for your WP. Does your wife’s school qualify for PGWP? Being a DLI doesn’t ensure that the school at a school qualifies for PGWP. How long is her program? She may qualify for flagpoling. Would call the border beforehand because many borders don’t allow flagpoling everyday and would suggest going first thing in the morning since some borders only accept a certain amount of flagpoling applications per day. Technically she is applying for a different type of study permit but that may not be an issue. She is the only one who likely qualifies to flagpole while you don’t qualify. You can’t send your application to your home country to be processed if you are living in Canada. It will likely just be returned back to Canada for processing. Posted processing times are often incorrect so processing times may be similar both in Canada and in your home country. It is actually fairly unusual for a whole family to be able to accompany someone doing language courses for such a long period of time because the family would not qualify to work, attend public school, qualify for healthcare, etc. It is up to the family to be able to support themselves unfortunately which is why most do not come or get approved.

 

[Naturgrl]

Naturgirl thank you for your answer, I really appreciate your time to read and answer.

Please let me add this information:

1.Yes, I have a valid TRV (visitor visa) for 10 years multiple entry.

2. Yes I mean the time of processing a work permit is 2 months from my country and Canada 6-8 months. About applying from my country I was thinking what would happened if I had traveled to my country and send the application from there (maybe it would have been faster ).

Considering Flag Poling:

I think we are in number 4 in your list, but I don’t have a study or work permit because I am visitor (my wife has study permit until 2025), who will go to do the flagpole, Just me or both? (We are afraid because my wife doesn’t have US visa, but she and I have a valid Canadian visitor visa ).

We are very worried because we only have money for a couple of months more, we are here with our two little sons and our current country money each day is more devaluated vs C$ and add the inflation . Without work permit we cannot raise money and work under the table is illegal so It is not an option for us, in the next months we will not have food in our table, it is so frustrating

Thank you so much!!

You are not number 4 because you don’t have a study or work permit. Your wife’s status is irrelevant. You are the one flagpoling, not your wife. If your wife needs her PGWP then she can flagpole if she has a valid study permit.

 

[canuck78]

You are not number 4 because you don’t have a study or work permit. Your wife’s status is irrelevant. You are the one flagpoling, not your wife. If your wife needs her PGWP then she can flagpole if she has a valid study permit.

Think the wife is trying to flagpole for a study permit for a degree program not study permit for ESl class. Husband doesn’t qualify for flagpoling for sure. Wife is applying for a different type of study permit so not sure if it will be considered a renewal.

 

[andresfconcha]

Thank you, @Natugrl and @canuck78, for answering and participating in my post. I hope my case will be helpful to someone else.



Please let me clarify some points:



1. We applied on 1st Sept 2021 before the government clarified that ESL students' spouses could not work. This was very hard for us because our budget was for ten (10) months with no jobs, and from our savings, we planned that I (the student's spouse) could get a job and help at home while my wife studied. After a year, we had already spent more than C$100K plus the inflation, the devaluation of our money and so on.
2. After the visas were granted, we travelled, and My wife studied Academic English at her DLI institution for eight (8) months.
3. My wife will qualify for a PGWP. Currently, she is in the first term of a two (2) years diploma program in the same DLI institution after fulfilling the prerequisites on English required by this DLI Institution.

4. She has conditions on her permit letter:


- May accept employment on or off campus if meeting eligibility criteria as per R186(F) (V) or (W). Must cease working if no longer meeting these criteria.
- Unless prerequisite course or program has been completed, may not accept off-campus employment."

5. I have a visitor visa and visitor extension permit, but I feel too frustrated because I cannot work. also, now I received a quote saying I cannot study either. It broke my heart because now I cannot develop my English either. It is so sad because I applied for a course and I had to cancel it, was my time to meet and be part of society.

6. On November 2022, when my wife was accepted for her diploma and had a new LOA, we both applied online (to obtain her new study permit with allowing work and my SOWP).


QUESTIONS:

1. Does my wife allow to work off campus with her actual study permit? Or does she need a new work permit (letter/paper)? (we already applied together online to change our status last November)

2. Can my wife do Flagpoling, and I go with her? Because I depend on her status and applied together to the online application sent in Nov 2022?

3. Is possible to flight to our country and, when we return to Canada, ask for our permits? (It would be more money, but if we get our permits early, It would be an investment).


OUR PERMITS CONDITIONS


ESL STUDY PERMIT CONDITIONS

- Must be in attendance at ESL/FSL and university approved pursuant to the inmigration regulations.
- May accept employment on or off campus if meeting eligibility criteria as per R186(F) (V) or (W). Must cease working if no longer meeting these criteria.
- Unless prerequisite course or program has been completed, may not accept off-campus employment


VISITOR VISA CONDITIONS - SPOUSE - VISITOR EXTENSION

- Unless authorized, prohibited from engaging in employment in Canada.
- Unless authorized, prohibited from attending any educational institution, or taking any academic, professional or vocational training course.

Thank you so much!

 

[canuck78]

Thank you, @Natugrl and @canuck78, for answering and participating in my post. I hope my case will be helpful to someone else.



Please let me clarify some points:



1. We applied on 1st Sept 2021 before the government clarified that ESL students' spouses could not work. This was very hard for us because our budget was for ten (10) months with no jobs, and from our savings, we planned that I (the student's spouse) could get a job and help at home while my wife studied. After a year, we had already spent more than C$100K plus the inflation, the devaluation of our money and so on.
2. After the visas were granted, we travelled, and My wife studied Academic English at her DLI institution for eight (8) months.
3. My wife will qualify for a PGWP. Currently, she is in the first term of a two (2) years diploma program in the same DLI institution after fulfilling the prerequisites on English required by this DLI Institution.

4. She has conditions on her permit letter:


- May accept employment on or off campus if meeting eligibility criteria as per R186(F) (V) or (W). Must cease working if no longer meeting these criteria.
- Unless prerequisite course or program has been completed, may not accept off-campus employment."

5. I have a visitor visa and visitor extension permit, but I feel too frustrated because I cannot work. also, now I received a quote saying I cannot study either. It broke my heart because now I cannot develop my English either. It is so sad because I applied for a course and I had to cancel it, was my time to meet and be part of society.

6. On November 2022, when my wife was accepted for her diploma and had a new LOA, we both applied online (to obtain her new study permit with allowing work and my SOWP).


QUESTIONS:

1. Does my wife allow to work off campus with her actual study permit? Or does she need a new work permit (letter/paper)? (we already applied together online to change our status last November)

2. Can my wife do Flagpoling, and I go with her? Because I depend on her status and applied together to the online application sent in Nov 2022?

3. Is possible to flight to our country and, when we return to Canada, ask for our permits? (It would be more money, but if we get our permits early, It would be an investment).


OUR PERMITS CONDITIONS


ESL STUDY PERMIT CONDITIONS

- Must be in attendance at ESL/FSL and university approved pursuant to the inmigration regulations.
- May accept employment on or off campus if meeting eligibility criteria as per R186(F) (V) or (W). Must cease working if no longer meeting these criteria.
- Unless prerequisite course or program has been completed, may not accept off-campus employment


VISITOR VISA CONDITIONS - SPOUSE - VISITOR EXTENSION

- Unless authorized, prohibited from engaging in employment in Canada.
- Unless authorized, prohibited from attending any educational institution, or taking any academic, professional or vocational training course.

Thank you so much!

Your wife is the only one who likely qualifies flagpole. You don’t qualify to flagpole. You don’t qualify for study permits on arrival at the airport. Spouses of people attending English classes never qualified for OWPs. Was your wife accepted into a diploma but told she had to complete the English class first or did she on,y recently apply for a diploma program?

 

[andresfconcha]

Hi,
this is sad

She studied 7 of eight levels of her ESL until october last year and at that time the college told her she could present an internal English admission exam. So, she presented and passed the test, and then she applied for her diploma. College accepted her since she fullfill the requirements about demonstrate English improvement. Now, she is in her first term at the same institution.

 

[andresfconcha]

Hi @canuck78 and @Naturgrl , we appreciate your answers, thank you so much.

She started ESL because she didn't get IELTS score.

- She studied 7 of 8 levels
- College allowed to present an internal english exam and she passed (last October).
- November and December she take general english classes in other Vancouver institute not DLI and virtual.
- She applied to the same diploma study, got new LOA, we paid and now she is studying from January.
- She didn't finish 8 level because she passed the internal english exam, we save CAD$3.200 (one month duration) and I could Apply for SOWP (it is our waiting right now).

Is any problem if she didn't finish de ESL, though it was the same DLI institution (the ESL program and the diploma)?

 

[Naturgrl]

Hi @canuck78 and @Naturgrl , we appreciate your answers, thank you so much.

She started ESL because she didn't get IELTS score.

- She studied 7 of 8 levels
- College allowed to present an internal english exam and she passed (last October).
- November and December she take general english classes in other Vancouver institute not DLI and virtual.
- She applied to the same diploma study, got new LOA, we paid and now she is studying from January.
- She didn't finish 8 level because she passed the internal english exam, we save CAD$3.200 (one month duration) and I could Apply for SOWP (it is our waiting right now).

Is any problem if she didn't finish de ESL, though it was the same DLI institution (the ESL program and the diploma)?

As said above, she has a study permit so is eligible to flagpole. You are not eligible to flagpole unless you entered on a ETA. However you seem intent to try.

The following foreign nationals are permitted to Flagpole:

1. Residents of visa-exempt countries with an LMIA-exempt job.
2. Residents of visa-exempt countries in possession of a positive LMIA.
3. Residents of the U.S., St. Pierre & Miquelon and Greenland.
4. Residents of visa-required countries already in possession of a study or work permit (flagpoling for the purposes of renewal).

 

[andresfconcha]

Thank you, @Naturgrl for your answer.

My only option is just to wait and continue spending CAD$5.000 per month from our family savings (after more than CAD$100.000 it hurts), It is so frustrating because you don't expect will take 6-8 months an answer to give what suppose you have the right from the day one of she started her diploma studies.

 

[Naturgrl]

Thank you, @Naturgrl for your answer.

My only option is just to wait and continue spending CAD$5.000 per month from our family savings (after more than CAD$100.000 it hurts), It is so frustrating because you don't expect will take 6-8 months an answer to give what suppose you have the right from the day one of she started her diploma studies.

I am sorry. You story is a lesson for many, and a lesson that we know on the forum…permits and approvals take a lot of time, and are not guaranteed nor immediate. Many spouse think they can come with a student, and have a right to work. It is not guaranteed and doesn’t say anywhere that it is. Many have to wait until a student spouse is on a PGWP in a skilled job to apply for an SOWP.