CEC for International Students

[rahuljoshi88]

I am international student.I graduated with 2 year course in December 2012. I have applied for post graduation work permit in February 2013. I am currently working with Costco since last 9 months(on off campus work permit). I want to know if I will qualify under CEC(after 1 year of experience) with my current position at Costco viz. MEMBERSHIP ASSISTANT. Or do I need a supervisor position to qualify? Right now I am holding part time position with 30 hours a week. Does my work has to be full time?

 

[ioanag]

The work experience on the off campus wp won't count to your CEC. You have to wait for your post graduation work permit then start counting your working hours.


"Note: Any periods of self-employment, unauthorized work, or periods of employment during which you were engaged in full-time study (e.g. work experience gained on a co-op, off-campus or on-campus work permit) will not be included when calculating the period of qualifying work experience."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5609ETOC.asp#5609E2

According to the Canadian National Occupational Classification (NOC), skilled work experience means:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/cec/apply-who.asp
Managerial jobs (NOC skill type 0)
Professional jobs (NOC skill type A)
Technical jobs and skilled trades (NOC skill type B)
You must have at least 12 months of full-time, or an equal amount in part-time, skilled work experience. Full-time work means at least 30 hours of paid work per week.

 

[jes_ON]

MEMBERSHIP ASSISTANT. Or do I need a supervisor position to qualify? Right now I am holding part time position with 30 hours a week. Does my work has to be full time?

Your position is probably classified as unskilled. A supervisory position would be skilled (and therefore qualify). The job does not have to be full time, but in any case, full-time is now defined as "at least 30 hours per week."

As noted, you would only be able to count the experience gained after graduation (on the PGWP).

 

[chints]

what should be the minimum wages for assistant store manager to put a file in CEC class?

 

[vigaviga]

Hi ionag, and jes_ON,

This is very important for me, too. I cannot find where exactly CIC states that work experience gained after graduation and before issuing PGWP does not count. There is nothing about in the link posted either.

They changed rules last January, and there is only one stream now. The requirement is clear for everybody (students, and foreign workers included): one year work experience. They do not mention anywhere students must gain their work experience after PGWP is issued. Furthermore, they do not make a distinction between off-campus work permit and PGWP in order to gain work experience after graduation.

 

[rajjj]

Hi ionag, and jes_ON,

This is very important for me, too. I cannot find where exactly CIC states that work experience gained after graduation and before issuing PGWP does not count. There is nothing about in the link posted either.

They changed rules last January, and there is only one stream now. The requirement is clear for everybody (students, and foreign workers included): one year work experience. They do not mention anywhere students must gain their work experience after PGWP is issued. Furthermore, they do not make a distinction between off-campus work permit and PGWP in order to gain work experience after graduation.

i think only experience u get on pgwp is countable minimum 30 hours in week and must be in o a,b, level

 

[vigaviga]

First of all, I ask for permission from the person who opened this topic, since my point is just a part of it. Thank you.

I need to know, beyond “I think” or “I was told”, whether or not CIC states a point from which students must start to count their work experience. My personal opinion is this: as of January 2013, to be eligible for CEC both students and foreign workers must work full-time for a year in a skilled position, and that is. In other words, all your work experience counts as long as you have a valid permit or authorization and your position is level 0, A or B.

Students are no longer required to submit graduation documents (CEC checklist), and after graduation Off-campus Work Permit holders are allowed to work full-time. That is why I consider all experience gained after graduation in a skilled position should count for CEC, even though the respective PGWP has not been issued. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[jes_ON]

I need to know, beyond “I think” or “I was told”, whether or not CIC states a point from which students must start to count their work experience.

No one's stopping you from reading the information provided by CIC. To quote PMM, "when all else fails, read the instructions."

For example, the instruction guide. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5609ETOC.asp
It says:
Note: Any periods of self-employment, unauthorized work, or periods of employment during which you were engaged in full-time study (e.g. work experience gained on a co-op, off-campus or on-campus work permit) will not be included when calculating the period of qualifying work experience.

There's also the OP 25-A, the instructions to visa officers for CEC applications (post-January 2, 2013):
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op25A-eng.pdf

page 7:
For a student who had graduated from a Canadian post-secondary institution, only work
experience gained after graduation will count towards meeting the work experience
requirement (e.g. post-graduate work permit).

My personal opinion is this: as of January 2013, to be eligible for CEC both students and foreign workers must work full-time for a year in a skilled position, and that is. In other words, all your work experience counts as long as you have a valid permit or authorization and your position is level 0, A or B.

Alas, CIC didn't hire you to write the rules.


Students are no longer required to submit graduation documents (CEC checklist), and after graduation Off-campus Work Permit holders are allowed to work full-time.

True.

That is why I consider all experience gained after graduation in a skilled position should count for CEC, even though the respective PGWP has not been issued.


This point has been debated for years, not just since the January changes. Alas, CIC still has not clarified it - the contradictory information remains. You are free to act on your "opinion" but don't be surprised if your VO doesn't share your opinion. The "better to be safe than sorry" advice is still good.

 

[da4u518]

Hi vigaviga
I agree with jes_on there are many members here reported got reject for same reason.i think nick22 was last got rejected for it. I think CIC consider the date you receiver ur diploma.

 

[vigaviga]

Hi guys,

Your replies confirm my point of view. I mean, all work experience gained after graduation on a skilled position does count for CEC.

After graduation (no longer engaged in academic duties), a student can gain their work experience on both an Off-campus Work Permit or a Post-graduate work Permit. The latter is an example of a valid permit (exempli gratia), and not the only one for students to obtain the work experience required. Please correct me with legal arguments if I’m wrong. Thank you

OP 25-A, page 7:
For a student who had graduated from a Canadian post-secondary institution, only work
experience gained after graduation will count towards meeting the work experience
requirement (e.g. post-graduate work permit).

 

[seton]

Hi guys,

Your replies confirm my point of view. I mean, all work experience gained after graduation on a skilled position does count for CEC.

After graduation (no longer engaged in academic duties), a student can gain their work experience on both an Off-campus Work Permit or a Post-graduate work Permit. The latter is an example of a valid permit (exempli gratia), and not the only one for students to obtain the work experience required. Please correct me with legal arguments if I'm wrong. Thank you

OP 25-A, page 7:
For a student who had graduated from a Canadian post-secondary institution, only work
experience gained after graduation will count towards meeting the work experience
requirement (e.g. post-graduate work permit).

Throwing in a latin phrase doesn't make your opinion anymore legal

Graduation is not defined as "no longer engaged in academic studies", but based on graduating and receiving your diploma. This often happens a month after a semester has ended. In Canada, people who have completed requirements to graduate are not considered graduated - you are actually considered a graduand. Universities explicitly advise not to use letters after your name (e.g. BA, BComm, etc.) until you receive your diploma.

People have been rejected for applying before the date listed on the diploma. There is also the grey area of the PGWP date - this has been discussed at length on this forum before, and the general consensus is that the safest route to avoid any interpretation vagueness is to apply after your one year experience based on both the diploma date and PGWP date.

Doing so reduces the risk that you will be rejected, and prolong your application considerably longer than waiting a couple extra weeks. At the very least, applying after the date of your diploma (evidence that you have graduated) is a baseline must to meet the regulations stated in the Immigration Act. The PGWP date is more ambiguous.

Approval is based on the judgement of the VO reviewing your application - the best offence is to remove any ambiguity from your application that will raise any warning flags.

 

[jes_ON]

After graduation (no longer engaged in academic duties), a student can gain their work experience on both an Off-campus Work Permit or a Post-graduate work Permit. The latter is an example of a valid permit (exempli gratia), and not the only one for students to obtain the work experience required. Please correct me with legal arguments if I'm wrong. Thank you

First - "no longer engaged in academic duties" is not the same thing as graduation. You graduate when you receive your diploma. Check the date on your diploma, that is the date of graduation.

Second - I don't disgree with your opinon, but (a) there are other statements in the rules that contradict this, and (b) unless you are prepared to hire a lawyer and sue CIC if the decision does not go your way, "legal" is not particularly relevant.

If you want your application to be processed the first time, without complications or without being rejected for applying too soon, you will start counting 1 year from whichever date is later - the date of graduation or the date you received your PGWP.

 

[vigaviga]

Hi guys, thanks again, this is close to the bottom.

So… it is basically a matter of general consensus when to start counting work experience for students, as apparently no guideline defines the starting point.

This is very important to understand, as nobody wants to be rejected just for applying too soon.

My personal case is this: there are two months between the date on my diploma and the date PGWP was issued so, according to the general consensus such months do not count in my favour; even though I had a valid permit to work full-time in any skilled position (Off-campus Work Permit). Even worse, I started to work when official transcripts were posted (almost four months before PGWP)... no good for me.

 

[rahuljoshi88]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if I can go back home during the one year work.

Thanks,
Rahul

 

[jes_ON]

My personal case is this: there are two months between the date on my diploma and the date PGWP was issued so, according to the general consensus such months do not count in my favour; even though I had a valid permit to work full-time in any skilled position (Off-campus Work Permit). Even worse, I started to work when official transcripts were posted (almost four months before PGWP)... no good for me.

We all understand your eagerness to apply already. But keep in mind, 1 year is a MINIMUM, not a maximum Hopefully the extra 4-6 months of work experience have other redeeming qualities.