CEC - Does my job qualify NOC 6221?

[shivahn]

Hi everyone,

I just sent me CEC application to Sydney, NS. I have lived in Vancouver, BC Canada since 2006, studied since 2006 to 2012 (working part time in F&B hotel while in school) and then received a BBA degree, and has been working full time since graduating.

I applied under NOC 6221 (technical sales specialists), but after sending my application package yesterday I got worried reading about 6221 (technical sales specialists) vs 6441 (sales and account representatives).
I am a sales rep (for BC territory) for medical laboratory company that collects specimens and test/diagnose them, and then sends the results to life insurance company's underwriters, and it is B2B, we sell our services to life insurance companies and financial services agencies/brokerages.

This is what the reference letter from my employer that I sent:

----------------------------------
To whom it may concern:

I am writing this reference letter at the request of XXX, who is applying for his Permanent Residency in Canada.
XXX has been working as a Paramedical Sales Representative for XXX Company since August 2012. Our company have served the life insurance industry as the leader in risk assessment testing since 1972. Our service ranges from paramedical/medical examinations, laboratory testing, attending physician statements, motor vehicle reports, tele-underwriting, to inspection reports.

He is a full-time employee with $38,000 CAD annual salary plus performance pay with auto allowance - and health, vision, and dental benefits. His main duties and responsibilities are the following:
• Promote services to existing clients and identifying and solicit potential clients
• Assess and provide input to clients' needs and resources to tailor our range of services
• Present as company speaker in industry and agency seminars to offer company services and to provide Continuing Education credits for licensed life insurance agents
• Executing marketing initiatives and sponsorships of approved events
• Exhibiting and staffing company booth at industry trade shows
• Manage and administer new and existing local/provincial accounts
• Consult and troubleshoot with clients after sale to resolve problems and provide ongoing support
• Collaborate with other department and provide operational assistance when necessary to maintain business continuity
• Prepare and present reports daily, weekly, and monthly to the management team

XXX is a member of our professional staff and an important member to our team. I am pleased to recommend him to continue his career in Canada. If you have any questions related to his employment please do not hesitate to contact me.

Respectfully submitted,
XXX, PHR
Human Resources Generalist
----------------------------------

I didn't mention it is a B2B, but it should be pretty obvious right? What do you guys think? Will the officer that reviews my application declines this job as NOC 6221?

Thank you in advance!

 

[shivahn]

Bump

 

[iam_toby]

You already applied, what does it matter now? I ain't no VO and therefore can't tell you what the VO who's gonna
look at your application will think.

HRSDC website also seems to be down, so can't even compare the two NOCs right now.

The site you are trying to reach is currently unavailable.
We regret any inconvenience.
Please try our corporate site at www.servicecanada.gc.ca

 

[shivahn]

The job descriptions of both classes are almost the same actually, shame the website is down.
Also, I wonder if they will also put some consideration to my Bachelor's degree I obtained in BC, they did not ask for a copy of the degree and transcript, but I sent them both copies anyways :/

 

[iam_toby]

The job descriptions of both classes are almost the same actually, shame the website is down.
Also, I wonder if they will also put some consideration to my Bachelor's degree I obtained in BC, they did not ask for a copy of the degree and transcript, but I sent them both copies anyways :/

The decision will be based on your work experience and the duties you performed, not your credentials, that's why they didn't ask for it.
So if the duties in your reference letter match both NOCs, it's you'd have to leave it up to the VO to assess it and either reject
or accept the experience.

 

[shivahn]

I see, does that mean they don't consider Canadian post graduate education in my application?

 

[lpc19800]

I see, does that mean they don't consider Canadian post graduate education in my application?

No - unless it's specifically tied to your noc code and even then I believe the experience in that noc is more important.

 

[iam_toby]

No - unless it's specifically tied to your noc code and even then I believe the experience in that noc is more important.

Second that.

 

[shivahn]

Thank you for your input guys. Let's go back to the NOC, I'd like to get some opinions if my duties in the reference letter matches the NOC duties.

Does my job match:

NOC 6221
Technical sales specialists (wholesale trade) perform some or all of the following duties:
• Promote sales to existing clients
• Identify and solicit potential clients
• Assess clients' needs and resources and recommend the appropriate goods or services
• Provide input into product design where goods or services must be tailored to suit clients' needs
• Develop reports and proposals as part of sales presentation to illustrate benefits from use of good or service
• Estimate costs of installing and maintaining equipment or service
• Prepare and administer sales contracts
• Consult with clients after sale to resolve problems and to provide ongoing support
• Troubleshoot technical problems related to equipment
• May train customers' staff in the operation and maintenance of equipment
• May conduct sales transactions through Internet-based electronic commerce
• May supervise the activities of other technical staff and sales specialists.
Technical sales specialists usually specialize in a particular line of goods or services.

OR

NOC 6411
Sales representatives, wholesale trade (non-technical), perform some or all of the following duties:
• Promote sales to existing clients
• Identify and solicit potential clients
• Provide clients with presentations on the benefits and uses of goods or services
• Estimate or quote prices, credit or contract terms, warranties and delivery dates
• Prepare or oversee preparation of sales or other contracts
• Consult with clients after sale or signed contracts to resolve problems and to provide ongoing support
• Review and adapt to information regarding product innovations, competitors and market conditions
• Represent companies that export and import products or services to and from foreign countries
• May conduct sales transactions through Internet-based electronic commerce
• May supervise the activities of other sales representatives.

Seems so similar to me, can't figure out the difference, it's probably B2B or B2C?

 

[R0ger]

To me, the difference between 6221 and 6411 seems quite clear. Both are sales specialists, but one is technical (i.e. dealing with some kind of hardware or software), while the other non-technical.

Based on the reference provided ...

His main duties and responsibilities are the following:
• Promote services to existing clients and identifying and solicit potential clients
• Assess and provide input to clients' needs and resources to tailor our range of services
• Present as company speaker in industry and agency seminars to offer company services and to provide Continuing Education credits for licensed life insurance agents
• Executing marketing initiatives and sponsorships of approved events
• Exhibiting and staffing company booth at industry trade shows
• Manage and administer new and existing local/provincial accounts
• Consult and troubleshoot with clients after sale to resolve problems and provide ongoing support
• Collaborate with other department and provide operational assistance when necessary to maintain business continuity
• Prepare and present reports daily, weekly, and monthly to the management team

... it seems quite evident that this is not technical. I don't see any duties mentioned here that could be construed as belonging to technical sales.

 

[shivahn]

To me, the difference between 6221 and 6411 seems quite clear. Both are sales specialists, but one is technical (i.e. dealing with some kind of hardware or software), while the other non-technical.

Based on the reference provided ...

... it seems quite evident that this is not technical. I don't see any duties mentioned here that could be construed as belonging to technical sales.

Hmm.. that is pretty depressing to hear. I do train life insurance agents on the underwriting process that gives the CE credits for maintaining their license though, I present a comprehensive medical testing in specimens we test in our lab. Isn't that technical? However the reference letter did not elaborate on that more...

The app has not arrived yet, can I call Canada Post and get it back and ask my HR to write the letter on more detail?

 

[scylla]

I agree with Roger - your job is non-technical. You don't sell any equipment (unless that was also missing from your job description). Adding the training responsibilities doesn't make a different in how I see your job. You're still NOC 6411. The training you provide is specialized - not technical.

 

[shivahn]

Wow... I guess I have to apply through BC PNP eh? I read that they will take consideration of my recent graduation and my potential progress to the NOC 0 & A positions in the future.
Well, I forgot to translate my birth certificate to English anyways so they will return my application to me.

What a sad day for me

Thank you for the input.

 

[jes_ON]

shivahn, I believe that 6221 is the correct NOC. However, I agree with some of the comments that the letter could have been more specific about exactly what product line(s) you are responsible for selling (not just the company overall, although that is important too), and that there is always the possibility that the VO sees it differently.

I wouldn't give up, tho. Go ahead and get your birth certificate translated - if your application is not returned to you, you can add it after you get the AOR, or if you plan to re-apply, you'll need it anyway. If your application IS returned before the AOR, then you have a chance to strengthen the letter.

And if you are eligible for the PNP program, it's good to have options, you can always apply to both -