CEC applicant with a few questions and projections!

[fat_penguin]

Hi guys,

CEC applicant here w/ 8 years of history in Canada. I haven't received it yet but I am pretty sure my 2014 CEC application will be returned to me soon (it was delivered to CIC in mid-December 2014). I have got:

-1+ year Canadian work experience in engineering,
-half year (part time) Canadian work experience in academics/research,
-max. CELPIP scores in each competency,
-Bachelor's Degree from a Canadian university (Engineering),
-no spouse,
-no foreign work experience,
-with full time, permanent job in engineering, but obviously no LMIA, (don't qualify for it)
-on an open (PGWP, LMIA-exempt) work permit due to expire in 4 months,
-don't qualify for PNP in Ontario because I have graduated more than two years ago (not eligible through the Student path) and have less than 2 years of Canadian experience (not eligible through the Worker path). Don't think I have time for it either.

TOTAL: 444/1200 points.


Some questions:

1) With 4 months left on my PGWP, what are my options of extending my work permit and staying in Canada without jeopardizing my career at my current firm other than waiting for the EE cutoffs to drop down to where I am? (Going back to school is not an option)... This is so frustrating to know that if I had applied two months earlier in October for CEC, I would have gotten an AOR, and I would have been on a seamless path... But I wasn't eligible until mid-December (1560 work hours weren't met). Now I am at the mercy of a lottery / statistics nightmare.

2) Currently under EE, I do qualify for CEC and CEC only, and I believe the reason for that is that I didn't declare any proof of funds while setting up the EE profile. Just put down "0" as this is not a requirement for CEC. I was wondering if it would be to my advantage to show proof of funds so that I am eligible for FSW as well. Not sure if they will ever have FSW-specific draws anytime soon but I guess being nominated in two programs would be advantageous? Or is it possible that the wait time for FSW would be longer down the line? (I know they promised "less than 6-months" for all programs, but still... This is too optimistic of a promise to hold once the # of ITA's increase in the next few months... I believe, historically, the FSW has always been the slower path between the two.)

3) Isn't it odd that even though engineering education is required to practice a strictly-regulated occupation (requires 4 years of EIT experience to become a professional engineer, P.Eng, in Ontario), Express Entry doesn't reward it with the 135 points? I think it is a big contradiction that here, CIC considers it a regulated and licensed professional profession:
- http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/ofs/engineer.asp
But here under EE, it isn't considered as a "Professional degree needed to practice in a licensed profession":
- http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/eca-conversion.asp

4) Here's some strange wording from one of the CIC notices ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2014-12-01.asp ):
"Under Express Entry, labour market demand, in the form of a job offer supported by a Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA) or a nomination by a province or territory will provide candidates with enough additional points and be ranked high enough to be invited to apply at the next eligible round of invitations." Doesn't this clearly suggest that if you have an LMIA or PNP, you will be invited "at the next eligible round of invitations" or am I misinterpreting it? Were there any candidates among us who were in the pool with LMIA/PNP but wasn't invited because they had scores less than 886 and 818 points in the first two draws, respectively?

Same wording can be found here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/
"These additional points will make a candidate rank high enough to be invited to apply at the next eligible round of invitations."

I mean, listening to the CIC December conference call made it obvious that the cut-off is surely expected to fall beneath the sub-600 tier one day (with obviously some higher-tier applicants with recently-obtained LMIA/PNP's prior to the draw), but I believe this wording surely suggests that the cutoff will, according to CIC's projections and statistics, one day plateau below 600. So, for those of us who have less than 600 points, it is not a matter of "if", but "when". If the numbers from that same conference call is true and there were indeed only 1200 positive LMIA's issued last year, with a constant trend of 3000/year before that, than we may very well have exhausted most back-logged LMIA/PNP holders and may see the cut-off dropping down to sub-600 as early as the next few draws. Thoughts?

Anyway, hopefully that day will come be within the next 3-4 months... Otherwise, after 8 years in Canada, my hands are quite tied.

Best of luck everyone!

 

[leights]

Heya,

Thought i'd reply to a few of your questions I know the answer to or that you maybe interested in,

2) Currently under EE, I do qualify for CEC and CEC only, and I believe the reason for that is that I didn't declare any proof of funds while setting up the EE profile. Just put down "0" as this is not a requirement for CEC. I was wondering if it would be to my advantage to show proof of funds so that I am eligible for FSW as well. Not sure if they will ever have FSW-specific draws anytime soon but I guess being nominated in two programs would be advantageous? Or is it possible that the wait time for FSW would be longer down the line? (I know they promised "less than 6-months" for all programs, but still... This is too optimistic of a promise to hold once the # of ITA's increase in the next few months... I believe, historically, the FSW has always been the slower path between the two.)

If you chose Canada as your current country of residence then you don't need to prove how much funds you have based on how long you have lived here because you are already established here - This also doesn't apply to the FSW category. The FSW is generally longer down the line like you say - The minimum amount that you need for Proof of funds if you aren't currently residing in CA is 12,000. You'll find the first few months is when they get the LMIA/PNP holders out of the way.

4)Here's some strange wording from one of the CIC notices
"Under Express Entry, labour market demand, in the form of a job offer supported by a Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA) or a nomination by a province or territory will provide candidates with enough additional points and be ranked high enough to be invited to apply at the next eligible round of invitations." Doesn't this clearly suggest that if you have an LMIA or PNP, you will be invited "at the next eligible round of invitations" or am I misinterpreting it? Were there any candidates among us who were in the pool with LMIA/PNP but wasn't invited because they had scores less than 886 and 818 points in the first two draws, respectively? Same wording can be found here:

"These additional points will make a candidate rank high enough to be invited to apply at the next eligible round of invitations."

I mean, listening to the CIC December conference call made it obvious that the cut-off is surely expected to fall beneath the sub-600 tier one day (with obviously some higher-tier applicants with recently-obtained LMIA/PNP's prior to the draw), but I believe this wording surely suggests that the cutoff will, according to CIC's projections and statistics, one day plateau below 600. So, for those of us who have less than 600 points, it is not a matter of "if", but "when". If the numbers from that same conference call is true and there were indeed only 1200 positive LMIA's issued last year, with a constant trend of 3000/year before that, than we may very well have exhausted most back-logged LMIA/PNP holders and may see the cut-off dropping down 600 as early as the next few draws. Thoughts?


You are not misinterpreting that at all.. The points were set very high to allow for all of those with LMIA's or PNP holders to be processed quickly. I recently just got my PNP ( it took 12 days for them to process ) and I missed the 2nd draw but I now have 919 points hopefully enough to get me into the next draw so i'll let you know if I don't as I should have enough points to qualify. CIC have a target quota they have to meet and not many candidates were approved- Pretty much those who had an LMIA or PNP because of the high points. In order to meet quota for the year they will decrease the points but it will just be a matter of time before they do so because not everyone will get PNP or an LMIA job offer. The human capital factor of the points will still be quite high what no one knows apart from what the Immigration minister sets. You have to remember as well the quota is also based on what NOC you fall under. Someone with a NOC B generally will fall under a Sub 200 quota cap so yes there could be people with more than the required points but if the quota is met for that category the chances aren't that high of getting approved. Thats why it's best to get in early but understand it's hard especially if it's a waiting game. Your totally right it's not a matter of if but a matter of when.! I'll let you know if I don't get approved by the next draw with the amount of points I have.

Good luck with it all.!

 

[scylla]

1) Is your employer willing to obtain an LMIA? That's the most obvious solution I see.

2) Don't know. My guess is that it would be better to expand your options and try to qualify under both FSW and CEC.

3) No - it's not odd. Professional degrees are those that require significant additional education on top of a bachelors to be recognized/certified (e.g. law, medicine, dentistry). You can become a fully certified engineer with only a bachelor degree (i.e. no Master's required).

4) Yes - it's possible someone with an LMIA wasn't selected in the first two rounds.

 

[Ritwick]

Hi guys,

CEC applicant here w/ 8 years of history in Canada. I haven't received it yet but I am pretty sure my 2014 CEC application will be returned to me soon (it was delivered to CIC in mid-December 2014). I have got:

-1+ year Canadian work experience in engineering,
-half year (part time) Canadian work experience in academics/research,
-max. CELPIP scores in each competency,
-Bachelor's Degree from a Canadian university (Engineering),
-no spouse,
-no foreign work experience,
-with full time, permanent job in engineering, but obviously no LMIA, (don't qualify for it)
-on an open (PGWP, LMIA-exempt) work permit due to expire in 4 months,
-don't qualify for PNP in Ontario because I have graduated more than two years ago (not eligible through the Student path) and have less than 2 years of Canadian experience (not eligible through the Worker path). Don't think I have time for it either.

TOTAL: 444/1200 points.


Some questions:

1) With 4 months left on my PGWP, what are my options of extending my work permit and staying in Canada without jeopardizing my career at my current firm other than waiting for the EE cutoffs to drop down to where I am? (Going back to school is not an option)... This is so frustrating to know that if I had applied two months earlier in October for CEC, I would have gotten an AOR, and I would have been on a seamless path... But I wasn't eligible until mid-December (1560 work hours weren't met). Now I am at the mercy of a lottery / statistics nightmare.

2) Currently under EE, I do qualify for CEC and CEC only, and I believe the reason for that is that I didn't declare any proof of funds while setting up the EE profile. Just put down "0" as this is not a requirement for CEC. I was wondering if it would be to my advantage to show proof of funds so that I am eligible for FSW as well. Not sure if they will ever have FSW-specific draws anytime soon but I guess being nominated in two programs would be advantageous? Or is it possible that the wait time for FSW would be longer down the line? (I know they promised "less than 6-months" for all programs, but still... This is too optimistic of a promise to hold once the # of ITA's increase in the next few months... I believe, historically, the FSW has always been the slower path between the two.)

3) Isn't it odd that even though engineering education is required to practice a strictly-regulated occupation (requires 4 years of EIT experience to become a professional engineer, P.Eng, in Ontario), Express Entry doesn't reward it with the 135 points? I think it is a big contradiction that here, CIC considers it a regulated and licensed professional profession:
- http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/ofs/engineer.asp
But here under EE, it isn't considered as a "Professional degree needed to practice in a licensed profession":
- http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/eca-conversion.asp

4) Here's some strange wording from one of the CIC notices ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/notices/2014-12-01.asp ):
"Under Express Entry, labour market demand, in the form of a job offer supported by a Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA) or a nomination by a province or territory will provide candidates with enough additional points and be ranked high enough to be invited to apply at the next eligible round of invitations." Doesn't this clearly suggest that if you have an LMIA or PNP, you will be invited "at the next eligible round of invitations" or am I misinterpreting it? Were there any candidates among us who were in the pool with LMIA/PNP but wasn't invited because they had scores less than 886 and 818 points in the first two draws, respectively?

Same wording can be found here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/
"These additional points will make a candidate rank high enough to be invited to apply at the next eligible round of invitations."

I mean, listening to the CIC December conference call made it obvious that the cut-off is surely expected to fall beneath the sub-600 tier one day (with obviously some higher-tier applicants with recently-obtained LMIA/PNP's prior to the draw), but I believe this wording surely suggests that the cutoff will, according to CIC's projections and statistics, one day plateau below 600. So, for those of us who have less than 600 points, it is not a matter of "if", but "when". If the numbers from that same conference call is true and there were indeed only 1200 positive LMIA's issued last year, with a constant trend of 3000/year before that, than we may very well have exhausted most back-logged LMIA/PNP holders and may see the cut-off dropping down to sub-600 as early as the next few draws. Thoughts?

Anyway, hopefully that day will come be within the next 3-4 months... Otherwise, after 8 years in Canada, my hands are quite tied.

Best of luck everyone!

I don't see how did you get 444 as a score? Did you give french test?

 

[fat_penguin]

Hey leights, thanks for the reply:
2) Ha, that's odd. I did indeed select my country of residence as Canada. Not sure where I have gone wrong and why I am not eligible for FSW in this particular case. Please note that on the "Proof of Funds" page ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/funds.asp ), it again states that you need to declare these funds "unless you are currently authorized to work in Canada and have a valid job offer from an employer in Canada". Valid = LMIA-approved, i guess. I think that is the reason.
4) I unfortunately work in Ontario and don't have any intention of moving elsewhere. Don't even think I have the time for it. And to my best knowledge, Ontario fast-track (EE PNP) isn't established yet. And I am sure the same set of eligibility rules will still apply to the new system when EE PNP is in effect so I won't be eligible. Alas!

 

[fat_penguin]

Thanks for the input scylla:

1) Haven't reached out to my employer but my base salary is slightly short of median wage; I make a big chunk of my salary from bonuses. Therefore I don't even satisfy one of the most basic requirements, unfortunately.

3) Well, not necessarily. In order to obtain your P.Eng and become a professional engineer, you have to write a law and ethics exam and also go through a significant process in which you have to document 4-years of experience under the mentorship of an already established P.Eng holder. You cannot stamp engineering documents with a Bachelor's degree or even call yourself an "engineer". It is against the law. So no, it truly is a licensed professional occupation.

4) Hmm, that contradicts with the wording; then again its all subjective and boils down to interpretation i guess. Eager to see if and when it will come down to what the wording suggests!

1) Is your employer willing to obtain an LMIA? That's the most obvious solution I see.

2) Don't know. My guess is that it would be better to expand your options and try to qualify under both FSW and CEC.

3) No - it's not odd. Professional degrees are those that require significant additional education on top of a bachelors to be recognized/certified (e.g. law, medicine, dentistry). You can become a fully certified engineer with only a bachelor degree (i.e. no Master's required).

4) Yes - it's possible someone with an LMIA wasn't selected in the first two rounds.

 

[fat_penguin]

I don't see how did you get 444 as a score? Did you give french test?

No, no French language background. 0/24 points there, unfortunately.

 

[leights]

Hey leights, thanks for the reply:
2) Ha, that's odd. I did indeed select my country of residence as Canada. Not sure where I have gone wrong and why I am not eligible for FSW in this particular case. Please note that on the "Proof of Funds" page, it again states that you need to declare these funds "unless you are currently authorized to work in Canada and have a valid job offer from an employer in Canada". Valid = LMIA-approved, i guess. I think that is the reason.
4) I unfortunately work in Ontario and don't have any intention of moving elsewhere. Don't even think I have the time for it. And to my best knowledge, Ontario fast-track (EE PNP) isn't established yet. And I am sure the same set of eligibility rules will still apply to the new system when EE PNP is in effect so I won't be eligible. Alas!

No worries - Strange, I was told by my company lawyer you don't need proof off funds but she said those funds can include overseas funds anything, so maybe set your limit quite high if you can prove that you have that amount readily available. I guess my only saving grace was that in BC we have PNP established and they are amazing, they even call you if you have done something wrong any questions and will give you a chance to fix up walk down to the office and hand them more documentation. I wish you had that over in Ontario. I feel for ya.! Frustrating especially since you've been here 8 years.. Your pretty much Canadian.. Reading over your details though you should be eligible for CEC in EE. Wishing you the best of luck!

 

[Ritwick]

No, no French language background. 0/24 points there, unfortunately.

I see. I think you might have filled something incorrectly, coz the way I see it, age -110, level of education - 120 (Bachelors), Language - 136, Work Ex - 40 (1 year). Total comes to 406

 

[sanybhai]

Hey Pengu
You said you have one year+ work experience in Canada? that definitely make u eligible for CEC. But was your experience continuous!!! If not u wont be eligible under FSW.

 

[fat_penguin]

No worries - Strange, I was told by my company lawyer you don't need proof off funds but she said those funds can include overseas funds anything, so maybe set your limit quite high if you can prove that you have that amount readily available. I guess my only saving grace was that in BC we have PNP established and they are amazing, they even call you if you have done something wrong any questions and will give you a chance to fix up walk down to the office and hand them more documentation. I wish you had that over in Ontario. I feel for ya.! Frustrating especially since you've been here 8 years.. Your pretty much Canadian.. Reading over your details though you should be eligible for CEC in EE. Wishing you the best of luck!

Cheers bud, best of luck to you too!

 

[fat_penguin]

I see. I think you might have filled something incorrectly, coz the way I see it, age -110, level of education - 120 (Bachelors), Language - 136, Work Ex - 40 (1 year). Total comes to 406

You are forgetting about "skill transferability factors"! Another 25+13 from those. -> 38/100

 

[fat_penguin]

Hey Pengu
You said you have one year+ work experience in Canada? that definitely make u eligible for CEC. But was your experience continuous!!! If not u wont be eligible under FSW.

Yup, my engineering work experience is continuous 1+ full year.

 

[Ritwick]

You are forgetting about "transferability skills"! Another 25+13 from those.

25 + 13? From which categories? (education/foreign work ex/ certificate). Maybe I am doing something wrong :S

 

[fat_penguin]

25 + 13? From which categories? (education/foreign work ex/ certificate). Maybe I am doing something wrong :S

Scroll down to CRS - Skill transferability factors here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp#a3
Use the grid to calculate how much you qualify for (out of another 100 points).