cbsa vs CIC

[canuckoz]

"Due to Privacy reasons we at CIC cannot access your CBSA records. Therefore we hereby require you to answer our RQ and tell us your life story with all supporting information including work experience, schools of kids, education, activities, including supporting documents such as employment contracts, payslips, bank statements, tax returns, holidays, itineraries, passport stamps, etc etc and other important documents showing your most private information."

:-\ :

 

[cadvis]

"Due to Privacy reasons we at CIC cannot access your CBSA records. Therefore we hereby require you to answer our RQ and tell us your life story with all supporting information including work experience, schools of kids, education, activities, including supporting documents such as employment contracts, payslips, bank statements, tax returns, holidays, itineraries, passport stamps, etc etc and other important documents showing your most private information."

:-\ :

Yes and no. Yes for privacy reasons they cannot access. But the whole immigration system works on basis of number of days present in Canada. If they are particular with that, they should find ways to get permission to access that information.

 

[canuckoz]

Yes and no. Yes for privacy reasons they cannot access. But the whole immigration system works on basis of number of days present in Canada. If they are particular with that, they should find ways to get permission to access that information.

simple. just amend the citizenship act or regulations to allow access to cbsa. i dont know why they should not be allowed access due to 'privacy' reasons and ask then you so much about your private personal life just because canada fails to record the movement of people amd fails to integrate its systems. it's so un-first world!

 

[SenoritaBella]

The new forms have a check box which if checked, will allow CIC to access CBSA records.

 

[canuckoz]

The new forms have a check box which if checked, will allow CIC to access CBSA records.

wow how long did it take CIC to think of this "innovation" LOL

 

[cadvis]

yes it is one of the greatest innovations... need to give an award for that... they do not have the basic check for verifying people stay inside Canada automatically... this should reduce fraud and will help them to be very efficient.

 

[canuckoz]

yes it is one of the greatest innovations... need to give an award for that... they do not have the basic check for verifying people stay inside Canada automatically... this should reduce fraud and will help them to be very efficient.

indeed. and apparently CBSA dont record exits even in airports. how is that going to help CIC, let alone national security agencies? the criminals and terrorists (and fraudulent citizenship applicants) can leave with little trace!

 

[SenoritaBella]

They have access to all flight manifests and aren't as "inefficient" as people would like to think. Part of the problem is they can't reveal their internal processes, so we tend to think they have no clue, until they catch someone in a lie.

I think Scylla's or jes_ON's husband was surprised to learn that CBSA had a detailed history of all his travels between Canada and US and they don't stamp passports.

Since they began cracking down on fraud, thousands have abandoned their citizenship applications and 16 were stripped of their citizenship. In my opinion, if you get to the point of applying for citizenship, count yourself blessed, have lots of patience and it will be over soon.

indeed. and apparently CBSA dont record exits even in airports. how is that going to help CIC, let alone national security agencies? the criminals and terrorists (and fraudulent citizenship applicants) can leave with little trace!

 

[canuckoz]

They have access to all flight manifests and aren't as "inefficient" as people would like to think. Part of the problem is they can't reveal their internal processes, so we tend to think they have no clue, until they catch someone in a lie.

I think Scylla's or jes_ON's husband was surprised to learn that CBSA had a detailed history of all his travels between Canada and US and they don't stamp passports.

Since they began cracking down on fraud, thousands have abandoned their citizenship applications and 16 were stripped of their citizenship. In my opinion, if you get to the point of applying for citizenship, count yourself blessed, have lots of patience and it will be over soon.

it's terrible it has become an ex post facto catching a liar type of thing. if they have an integrated system
that would prevent an application in the first place.

e.g. in Country A when you lodge an online citizenship application you cannot continue unless the computer says yes you meet the requirements based on our integrated systems. and that doesnt take longer than a minute to verify.

 

[SenoritaBella]

It's not that simple - a computer is not as efficient either. Computers have caused people to be detained at the border simply because their name/date of birth matches that of a criminal.
A computer can run checks electronically, but it still requires someone to enter that data in order for it to do the search, right? Also, site checks during a background check are not possible by computer. CSIS on the other hand can do the leg work - by the way, a lawyer once told me this agency is capable of going right to your parents' home if need be.

Remember the gov't is making changes as a result of fraudulent applicants not to make yours or my life difficult. They can't win - one minute we are so worried about the invasion/loss of privacy, the next we want an integrated system. That is CSIS, CRA, CIC, HRDSC, etc as one. I named these ones because applicants require documents from each of these agencies for an immigration application.

Do we realise what we would be potentially giving up if we want that to happen? As it is, these agencies can not disclose information to one another about us without our consent. Integrating them may mean, you consent to one and you may have consented to the others as well and let the intrusion begin. No thanks.

Furthermore, I can't see how CSIS will fit into this integration? It's the one agency where an access to information request could come back with all information redacted except perhaps the date. Everything is classified.

Try watching Border Security: Canada to get an idea of how they go about their work and just how much authority/power they have. It is a different experience watching it than going through it. They can search your belongings and your person without a warrant but the police/RCMP need a warrant for that.

it's terrible it has become an ex post facto catching a liar type of thing. if they have an integrated system
that would prevent an application in the first place.

e.g. in Country A when you lodge an online citizenship application you cannot continue unless the computer says yes you meet the requirements based on our integrated systems. and that doesnt take longer than a minute to verify.

 

[canuckoz]

ummm we're only talking about citizenship applications here.

in Country A these privacy issues are taken care of. privacy complaints are unheard of. in fact you will hear far more complaints against CIC's nosey and intrusive application process than Country A's straightforward electronic process.

in Country A you need to provide consent and prove your ID. there are serious penalties under the Privacy Act and there are robust controls in place. it's not an open book. the Canadian citizenship app form and RQs are far more intrusive.

in Country A you don't need to provide your life story just to prove your residency. the computer knows when you entered and exited and automatically calculates for you based on the database in less than a minute. (if you believe the computer is wrong (which is very unlikely) you can apply by paper.) what Country A can do in less than a minute takes CIC many months or years to complete.

Country A is where "Border Security" tv program started many years ago.

It's not that simple - a computer is not as efficient either. Computers have caused people to be detained at the border simply because their name/date of birth matches that of a criminal.
A computer can run checks electronically, but it still requires someone to enter that data in order for it to do the search, right? Also, site checks during a background check are not possible by computer. CSIS on the other hand can do the leg work - by the way, a lawyer once told me this agency is capable of going right to your parents' home if need be.

Remember the gov't is making changes as a result of fraudulent applicants not to make yours or my life difficult. They can't win - one minute we are so worried about the invasion/loss of privacy, the next we want an integrated system. That is CSIS, CRA, CIC, HRDSC, etc as one. I named these ones because applicants require documents from each of these agencies for an immigration application.

Do we realise what we would be potentially giving up if we want that to happen? As it is, these agencies can not disclose information to one another about us without our consent. Integrating them may mean, you consent to one and you may have consented to the others as well and let the intrusion begin. No thanks.

Furthermore, I can't see how CSIS will fit into this integration? It's the one agency where an access to information request could come back with all information redacted except perhaps the date. Everything is classified.

Try watching Border Security: Canada to get an idea of how they go about their work and just how much authority/power they have. It is a different experience watching it than going through it. They can search your belongings and your person without a warrant but the police/RCMP need a warrant for that.

 

[SenoritaBella]

Yup, we are talking about citizenship applications and the system is not as simplified as you would like to make it seem.

By the way, if the UK's system was that error proof they won't have stow aways cross the land border daily from Calais(France) despite checks.

Lastly, there is always the choice to return to country "A"(Australia or UK I believe) if things aren't working in Canada. Meanwhile, we need to remember that Canadian citizenship is a privilege not a right.

ummm we're only talking about citizenship applications here.

in Country A these privacy issues are taken care of. privacy complaints are unheard of. in fact you will hear far more complaints against CIC's nosey and intrusive application process than Country A's straightforward electronic process.

in Country A you need to provide consent and prove your ID. there are serious penalties under the Privacy Act and there are robust controls in place. it's not an open book. the Canadian citizenship app form and RQs are far more intrusive.

in Country A you don't need to provide your life story just to prove your residency. the computer knows when you entered and exited and automatically calculates for you based on the database in less than a minute. (if you believe the computer is wrong (which is very unlikely) you can apply by paper.) what Country A can do in less than a minute takes CIC many months or years to complete.

Country A is where "Border Security" tv program started many years ago.

 

[canuckoz]

Yup, we are talking about citizenship applications and the system is not as simplified as you would like to make it seem.

By the way, if the UK's system was that error proof they won't have stow aways cross the land border daily from Calais(France) despite checks.

Lastly, there is always the choice to return to country "A"(Australia or UK I believe) if things aren't working in Canada. Meanwhile, we need to remember that Canadian citizenship is a privilege not a right.

i'm Canadian by birth
and my experience with Country A's citizenship application process is very high-tech and very efficient - as expected from a First World country

if you're just going to accept things as they are and not think of innovations to improve processes, unfortunately nothing's gonna change. why wait 23-48 months when it can be done in 2-6 months at lower cost?

 

[Msafiri]

owning a home here, life insurance policies, car, donation to local charity, local business and family members living in Canada and never left etc... don't you think it proves some commitment to stay in this country? I know they will reject me as my passport is filled with stamps and visa's. It is just the nature of my business.

As per Federal Court case law the days of applicants relying on passive ties and family members in Canada for their Citizenship application are increasingly getting rare. Physical presence is now de-facto what really counts else your application goes into the 'non routine' have the patience of a saint file area.

Parliament/ CIC really should re-define residence to mean physical presence with discretional operational practice/policy for those who centre their long term residence e.g circa 7 plus years in Canada.

In the meantime in your case send them what you have as evidence of active presence e.g. Provincial Health billing record. You are paying the price for the frauds who were mostly self employed and for those who historically used the entry/exit via the US route due to lack of passport stamping to hide absences from Canada. Put yourself in the shoes of the CIC agent at the test - would you have risked in the time given to pass someone with your travel profile or give them an RQ. I believe had you been employed e.g. service technician on heat exchangers and were on the US for work then this would have been better.

You can apply for your GCMS notes to get more info on your application. CIC will progress your application at their speed unless you go to court and ask for a Writ of Mandamus due to delays that compels CIC to speed things up....this won't happen before 4 years are up...its their way or the highway pretty much.

 

[EasyRider]

Meanwhile, we need to remember that Canadian citizenship is a privilege not a right.

As a PR you should be better aware of your rights and not throw statements like that so easily.

Canadian citizenship a right for PR's who met conditions, not a privilege.