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CBSA exit records via air ?

folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
17
1
Hi I need a PRTD immediately.

Does CBSA track exit records via air ? and does IRCC validated CBSA records?

I exited Canada on May 2020 or June 2021(so confused with the dates because of covid and depression, I tried a lot but cannot figure out when I left Canada). I lost my old passport and I don't have any old tickets with me or boarding passes. How do I know when I exited Canada? Please let me know asap my friends.

I am scared to put dates because I don't want to attract the misrepresentation clause. Lets say I put May 2020 but what if I actually exited on June 2021 and vice versa. Is it considered misrepresentation ?
 
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Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
Hi I need a PRTD immediately.

Does CBSA track exit records via air ? and does IRCC validated CBSA records?

I exited Canada on May 2020 or June 2021(so confused with the dates because of covid and depression, I tried a lot but cannot figure out when I left Canada). I lost my old passport and I don't have any old tickets with me or boarding passes. How do I know when I exited Canada? Please let me know asap my friends.

I am scared to put dates because I don't want to attract the misrepresentation clause. Lets say I put May 2020 but what if I actually exited on June 2021 and vice versa. Is it considered misrepresentation ?
Is there someone you could ask, whether in Canada or where you are now, who would know when you left Canada? What about checking a credit card history for when a ticket was purchased?
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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Category........
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App. Filed.......
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AOR Received.
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VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
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Hi I need a PRTD immediately.

Does CBSA track exit records via air ? and does IRCC validated CBSA records?

I exited Canada on May 2020 or June 2021(so confused with the dates because of covid and depression, I tried a lot but cannot figure out when I left Canada). I lost my old passport and I don't have any old tickets with me or boarding passes. How do I know when I exited Canada? Please let me know asap my friends.

I am scared to put dates because I don't want to attract the misrepresentation clause. Lets say I put May 2020 but what if I actually exited on June 2021 and vice versa. Is it considered misrepresentation ?
Yes, exits are tracked and IRCC has access.

There is a huge difference between May 2020 and June 2021. If you put down the wrong date, your PRTD may take much longer to process.

I agree with the advice given above. Speak with your family and friends in both Canada and your home country. Someone must be able to help you determine which is the right date. Also very good advice to check your bank statements / credit card statements in Canada. Where were you living in Canada? Can you check with your landlord?
 
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YVR123

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Jul 27, 2017
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Other suggestion is to check you digital footprint. emails/social media post, visits to your doctor/therapist (since you have depression), credit card, debit card, bank statements, old receipts, online orders, food delivery app records, amazon order records (if you use them), chat records on your phone apps...etc.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Yes, exits are tracked and IRCC has access.

There is a huge difference between May 2020 and June 2021. If you put down the wrong date, your PRTD may take much longer to process.

I agree with the advice given above. Speak with your family and friends in both Canada and your home country. Someone must be able to help you determine which is the right date. Also very good advice to check your bank statements / credit card statements in Canada. Where were you living in Canada? Can you check with your landlord?
Actually, Exit records are not tracked by CBSA, per se, but since an outbound passenger manifest list constitutes an entry into another country...they connect the dots. I was told this the last time I entered Canada by air by the CBSA officer.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/service-delivery/entry-exit.html
[last update Jan 2022]

Collection and access to traveller data

The Customs Act currently allows the CBSA to collect land entry and exit data and air entry data on all travellers. Regulatory amendments for exits by air came into force in June 2020.

Apparently the CBSA did not have any info regarding this last October when I had the conversation.
 
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Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Hi I need a PRTD immediately.

Does CBSA track exit records via air ? and does IRCC validated CBSA records?

I exited Canada on May 2020 or June 2021(so confused with the dates because of covid and depression, I tried a lot but cannot figure out when I left Canada). I lost my old passport and I don't have any old tickets with me or boarding passes. How do I know when I exited Canada? Please let me know asap my friends.

I am scared to put dates because I don't want to attract the misrepresentation clause. Lets say I put May 2020 but what if I actually exited on June 2021 and vice versa. Is it considered misrepresentation ?
So your H&C PRTD in June of 2018 was approved? If so, how long had you been in Canada before departing in May 2020 or June 2021?

Are you still in compliance with the R.O., or will you be filing another H&C application when you renew your PR card?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,833
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Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Actually, Exit records are not tracked by CBSA, per se, but since an outbound passenger manifest list constitutes an entry into another country...they connect the dots. I was told this the last time I entered Canada by air by the CBSA officer.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/service-delivery/entry-exit.html
[last update Jan 2022]

Collection and access to traveller data

The Customs Act currently allows the CBSA to collect land entry and exit data and air entry data on all travellers. Regulatory amendments for exits by air came into force in June 2020.

Apparently the CBSA did not have any info regarding this last October when I had the conversation.
I agree they don't collect it themselves per se but they clearly have very easy access to this info.

They've also had access to this data pre 2020. Sometimes I see people here assume that no records or limited records were available before the regulatory amendment came into force in June 2020. I can tell you from first hand experience that this is not the case by any stretch of the imagination. I was with my husband in secondary at Pearson back in 2009 or 2010 (before he became a PR in 2010 and while his application was still being processed) when CBSA literally read him a list of his entries and exits for the last number of months. They had everything. This included flights to the US as well as multiple other international destinations (he travels extensively as a consultant). It actually freaked us out quite a bit at the time.
 

Ponga

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I agree they don't collect it themselves per se but they clearly have very easy access to this info.

They've also had access to this data pre 2020. Sometimes I see people here assume that no records or limited records were available before the regulatory amendment came into force in June 2020. I can tell you from first hand experience that this is not the case by any stretch of the imagination. I was with my husband in secondary at Pearson back in 2009 or 2010 (before he became a PR in 2010 and while his application was still being processed) when CBSA literally read him a list of his entries and exits for the last number of months. They had everything. This included flights to the US as well as multiple other international destinations (he travels extensively as a consultant). It actually freaked us out quite a bit at the time.
LOL! I recall reading this in one of your previous posts. Of course they have all of the info. ;)
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,833
22,109
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
LOL! I recall reading this in one of your previous posts. Of course they have all of the info. ;)
Citizenship was even better (2012 application). My husband had a very long list of trips that was included as part of the application because of his extensive travel. We thought we kept meticulous records in Excel. Turns out we missed one single same-day trip to the US. Guess who found it. My husband got RQ because of that single miss.
 
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Ponga

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Citizenship was even better (2012 application). My husband had a very long list of trips that was included as part of the application because of his extensive travel. We thought we kept meticulous records in Excel. Turns out we missed one single same-day trip to the US. Guess who found it. My husband got RQ because of that single miss.
Yup, remember you posting that as well. ALWAYS helpful for others!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
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I need a PRTD immediately.

Does CBSA track exit records via air ? and does IRCC validated CBSA records?

I exited Canada on May 2020 or June 2021 . . .
As @scylla noted, "exits are tracked and IRCC has access." Mostly anyway. What that actually means in practical terms is largely explained in the information posted online by IRCC and referenced and linked by @Ponga, and which again, for reference, is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/service-delivery/entry-exit.html

There are some nuances. And of course other sources for verifying the information a PR gives IRCC.

Generally . . .

IRCC, through CBSA and various government records, can generally verify the travel history reported by a PR in a PR TD application. Not perfectly, not always completely. But close enough the only safe bet is betting IRCC can and will identify omissions and inaccuracies in the travel history reported by the PR.

In regards to whether a PR can obtain access to this information, to help the PR fill in a complete travel history, the procedure for obtaining a copy of CBSA travel history is relatively simple (see link below). While Entry records obtained from CBSA are now nearly always complete (subject to some omissions, particularly if the PR has deliberately engaged in any of several means to evade the system), obtaining information about EXITS from Canada is more limited and subject to some unknowns.

Caution: just because there is a high probability that IRCC and CBSA can access information enabling it to identify omissions or inaccurate information submitted by the PR, that DOES NOT mean all a traveler's exit information is in a Personal Information Bank that is subject to ATIP requests and thus accessible by individuals. Note that in particular the CBSA website about getting travel history explicitly states: "Exit information is limited."

That is, IRCC and more so CBSA, can conduct investigations that include search queries into databases to access and extract information that is not yet maintained in Personal Information Banks (PIB). It appears that the Entry/Exit Program discussed at the IRCC webpage referenced by @Ponga, means things are moving in the direction of CBSA populating a PIB with exit as well as entry records. But for now they have not got there. An ATIP request will only reach information in a Personal Information Bank, not information CBSA can access by investigatory research into, for example, airline manifest databases.

That is, there is information including some exit information that IRCC/CBSA could get, but unless they already have they will not get it to share with a client in response to an ATIP request.

For relevant CBSA information see https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/thr-rav-eng.html and https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/menu-eng.html

That aside and overall: unless you have only recently left Canada to go abroad, and have been residing in Canada for most of the last two years, and otherwise are clearly in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, there is very little chance of getting a PR TD within a month. Never mind "immediately."

If you obtain a record of dates you EXITED Canada from CBSA, there is no guarantee it will be complete and that will take weeks to obtain, probably a month or more (supposed to be within a month, but often goes longer). So waiting for that to make a PR TD application is not going to work in the short term.

If you really need to travel to Canada in the short term, as soon as possible anyway (allowing this might not be all that soon), you can proceed to make the PR TD with the information you have, avoid waiting longer, being sure to make it clear in the application the extent to which relevant information is unknown. Best to be clear about what information is an estimate, versus what information is otherwise uncertain, and very clear about what is unknown. Of course doing this is almost certain to trigger non-routine processing, and raise red flag questions, so at best the process will likely take longer.

How problematic this will be will depend on a range of factors, with how clear it is you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation looming large.

Thus . . . If you are solidly in compliance with the RO (regardless of the unknown exit date), as readily documented in the rest of the information you provide (all other travel dates, address history, work history, and submitting more supporting documents than is routine), this is a feasible approach, and especially so if you have also been primarily residing in Canada the last two years.

My sense is this is NOT the case. But, if you are solidly in compliance with the RO (regardless of the unknown exit date), as readily documented in the rest of the information you provide, you can proceed to make the PR TD with the information you have. The downside is that this is not likely to be a routinely processed application and thus will take more time than most, long ways past "immediate."

Note: if you are again relying on H&C relief, making that case (based on truthful facts) is the bigger, more important, more pressing issue for your PR TD application. IRCC will be able to largely figure out, within a fair margin, how much you have been IN Canada, how much outside Canada, so if you are in RO compliance, things should result in a PR TD being issued. If not in RO compliance, what happens will depend on the strength of the H&C case (and, yeah, your overall immigration history is likely to haunt how this goes).


Applying With Unknown Information and Avoiding Misrepresentation:

You can avoid making a misrepresentation regarding an unknown or uncertain exit from Canada in 2020 or 2021 by specifically stating there was an exit during that time but you cannot recall the date. And otherwise give accurate dates for all other dates of exit and entry. And address and work history.


In addition to correctly reporting all other dates of exit and entry for the previous five years, for the trip abroad beginning in 2020 or 2021, I believe you can enter "???" in the "From" column, for example, and then be sure to enter the correct date you NEXT returned to Canada. In the box for "Other" (even if you selected A, B, or C for the reason) be sure to state something like "travel date UNKNOWN; see supplemental information." Make it clear there is missing information and you do not have it. Note that the form will generate a zero ("0") in the days column, and the form will otherwise be off in the number of days outside Canada by however long you were abroad following that exit.

Then, of course, include supplemental information explaining what is missing, and the best you can why, and it would be a good idea to otherwise supplement the application with significantly more proof you meet the Residency Obligation. Also be sure to clearly acknowledge, in the supplemental statement, that the total number of days shown in the form, section 5.5, is NOT ACCURATE, that you were outside Canada MORE than what it shows.

How things will go, then, will depend on the strength of your case. If IRCC can readily conclude, from the information you provide and cross-checking other sources, including CBSA records, that you are in compliance with the RO, a PR TD should be issued. If you are relying on H&C relief, again the strength of that case, your H&C reasons, will determine the outcome.

This comes with a caution: A visa officer will quite likely conclude it is NOT credible you cannot figure out if you exited Canada in 2020 or 2021. Leading to . . .


Reality Check -- Yeah, From the Practical View Seats, the Scenario Looks Problematic


As noted, my sense is the above scenario is not the case, not your situation. This starts with the likelihood a visa officer will conclude it is NOT credible that you cannot figure out if you exited Canada in 2020 or 2021. Between bank records. Employment history. Address history. Tax documents. Recall of friends and family. Immediate family records, and their banking, employment, address, and other records. Child's school information. Old email. Receipts for this and that. There are so many ways to figure out which year it was you left Canada that it is close to impossible to imagine any visa officer finding a claim that you can't to be credible. Not that there would be an accusation of misrepresentation. But plenty of skepticism, perhaps a lot of suspicion.

Not that this, in itself, would be too problematic. Something of a problem, yes, since it is very likely to trigger an elevated degree of scrutiny and cross-checking. The good news is that will not hurt if all the rest of your information is accurate and the facts (including what is in CBSA records) otherwise clearly support a conclusion you are in RO compliance, or that based on H&C reasons you should be allowed to keep PR status.

Otherwise . . . well, otherwise this is not really about reconstructing whether a travel date was in 2020 or 2021. There is some bad news, dark alleys, in that direction, at least in terms of keeping PR status.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Citizenship was even better (2012 application). My husband had a very long list of trips that was included as part of the application because of his extensive travel. We thought we kept meticulous records in Excel. Turns out we missed one single same-day trip to the US. Guess who found it. My husband got RQ because of that single miss.
Yup, remember you posting that as well. ALWAYS helpful for others!
I do not want to go too far down this tangent but it warrants clarifying that isolated, minor mistakes will RARELY trigger elevated scrutiny let alone full blown RQ. Stuff-happens, so I am not questioning what happened in this case.

But for purposes of general information and reasonable expectations:

Even during the peak of the Harper era RQ sweep (when there was a period of time in which one in four citizenship applicants were getting full blown RQ), even then the internal guidelines specified that minor mistakes in travel history should NOT trigger RQ as long as there were no more than three discrepancies with a total of no more than five days difference.

In contrast, however, a leaked version of the File Requirements Checklist revealed that the triage criteria included (in checklist item A5) applicants who "Self-identified as a consultant." While that alone would trigger full blown RQ in 2012 to 2013, it is almost certainly no longer a stand-alone trigger (similarly for applicants who self-identify as "self-employed" which was also an automatic RQ trigger in the 2012 to 2013 period); that said, it may continue to be a factor considered in combination with other triage criteria factors.

There are many reliable anecdotal reports from applicants who made significant errors in their travel history and did not get any RQ related requests let alone full-blown RQ. Of course those were generally otherwise very solid cases and the applicant applied with a large margin.

Additionally it is highly unusual (somewhere between rare and extremely rare) for RQ'd applicants to actually know why they got RQ'd. This information is almost always a very closely guarded secret. For citizenship applications that go to an appeal, for example, even then this information is not shared with the applicant or the applicant's attorney, and it is NOT included in the Certified Tribunal Record. Thus, even the Federal Court justice deciding the case does not know why there was RQ, in particular, or the content of any notations made in the File Requirements Checklist (FRC) in regards to the triage criteria (the FRC for the application is NOT included in the CTR, to keep even the form itself secret).

Many times an individual who is RQ'd can infer some of what likely triggered it, including certain specific elements if they are readily apparent. (After all, despite many protests to the contrary, the applicant almost always knows more about the facts in their case than anyone else.) Again, there have been many credible anecdotal reports of applicants realizing before or during the interview, or learning during the interview, there was an error, often a significant error (usually an omission) in their travel history. Outcomes vary. Some in these scenarios are nonetheless promptly scheduled for the oath. Some get RQ-lite, some full-blown RQ. And for those RQ'd, it is easy to infer the discrepancy in travel history had at least a major role in getting RQ'd.

However, for many who get RQ'd, probably most, there is almost always a combination of multiple factors triggering the RQ. Some more obvious than others. A discrepancy in conjunction with a small margin over the minimum, for example, virtually compels IRCC to RQ the applicant. Any compromising credibility flags will of course increase the risk of RQ even when there is only a small discrepancy.

In any event, with stuff-happens exceptions, and other than the 2010 to 2013 Harper era madness (which continued into 2015 but abated significantly compared to the 2012 peak), IRCC does not engage in gotcha-games and generally is not overly picky. Minor mistakes do not generally trigger even minor non-routine processing let alone serious investigations or RQ, unless the officials handling the respective application seen actual cause for concern.

Which leads back to the situation for @folks . . . failing to know a particular travel date is generally not fatal, not at all. So, as along as @folks is upfront and honest, IRCC will figure most things out. So, how things go will depend far more on how much @folks has been living and present in Canada, or if need be, on the strength of a H&C case. Problem is, I suspect, this probably is not so much about being unable to recall the year of an exit from Canada, but more about not being in Canada since then. With a previous history of not settling and staying in Canada.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,833
22,109
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I do not want to go too far down this tangent but it warrants clarifying that isolated, minor mistakes will RARELY trigger elevated scrutiny let alone full blown RQ. Stuff-happens, so I am not questioning what happened in this case.

But for purposes of general information and reasonable expectations:

Even during the peak of the Harper era RQ sweep (when there was a period of time in which one in four citizenship applicants were getting full blown RQ), even then the internal guidelines specified that minor mistakes in travel history should NOT trigger RQ as long as there were no more than three discrepancies with a total of no more than five days difference.

In contrast, however, a leaked version of the File Requirements Checklist revealed that the triage criteria included (in checklist item A5) applicants who "Self-identified as a consultant." While that alone would trigger full blown RQ in 2012 to 2013, it is almost certainly no longer a stand-alone trigger (similarly for applicants who self-identify as "self-employed" which was also an automatic RQ trigger in the 2012 to 2013 period); that said, it may continue to be a factor considered in combination with other triage criteria factors.

There are many reliable anecdotal reports from applicants who made significant errors in their travel history and did not get any RQ related requests let alone full-blown RQ. Of course those were generally otherwise very solid cases and the applicant applied with a large margin.

Additionally it is highly unusual (somewhere between rare and extremely rare) for RQ'd applicants to actually know why they got RQ'd. This information is almost always a very closely guarded secret. For citizenship applications that go to an appeal, for example, even then this information is not shared with the applicant or the applicant's attorney, and it is NOT included in the Certified Tribunal Record. Thus, even the Federal Court justice deciding the case does not know why there was RQ, in particular, or the content of any notations made in the File Requirements Checklist (FRC) in regards to the triage criteria (the FRC for the application is NOT included in the CTR, to keep even the form itself secret).

Many times an individual who is RQ'd can infer some of what likely triggered it, including certain specific elements if they are readily apparent. (After all, despite many protests to the contrary, the applicant almost always knows more about the facts in their case than anyone else.) Again, there have been many credible anecdotal reports of applicants realizing before or during the interview, or learning during the interview, there was an error, often a significant error (usually an omission) in their travel history. Outcomes vary. Some in these scenarios are nonetheless promptly scheduled for the oath. Some get RQ-lite, some full-blown RQ. And for those RQ'd, it is easy to infer the discrepancy in travel history had at least a major role in getting RQ'd.

However, for many who get RQ'd, probably most, there is almost always a combination of multiple factors triggering the RQ. Some more obvious than others. A discrepancy in conjunction with a small margin over the minimum, for example, virtually compels IRCC to RQ the applicant. Any compromising credibility flags will of course increase the risk of RQ even when there is only a small discrepancy.

In any event, with stuff-happens exceptions, and other than the 2010 to 2013 Harper era madness (which continued into 2015 but abated significantly compared to the 2012 peak), IRCC does not engage in gotcha-games and generally is not overly picky. Minor mistakes do not generally trigger even minor non-routine processing let alone serious investigations or RQ, unless the officials handling the respective application seen actual cause for concern.

Which leads back to the situation for @folks . . . failing to know a particular travel date is generally not fatal, not at all. So, as along as @folks is upfront and honest, IRCC will figure most things out. So, how things go will depend far more on how much @folks has been living and present in Canada, or if need be, on the strength of a H&C case. Problem is, I suspect, this probably is not so much about being unable to recall the year of an exit from Canada, but more about not being in Canada since then. With a previous history of not settling and staying in Canada.
We are obviously guessing that this single day trip was the reason got my husband RQ'd. However that's what it appears happened based on the interview. When my husband went for the test / interview, they told him he missed one trip. They also told him they had a record of when he left Canada but could not find a record of when he returned and questioned how long he was actually out of Canada on that trip. They then told him he was going to get a form requesting more information and evidence to prove when he returned and the fact that it was only a same day trip. The RQ only delayed us by a few weeks. We submitted the evidence requested pretty quickly (we went a bit overboard to make sure) and he was approved for the oath within a matter of days. Processing was pretty fast during that window.
 
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dpenabill

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We are obviously guessing that this single day trip was the reason got my husband RQ'd. However that's what it appears happened based on the interview. When my husband went for the test / interview, they told him he missed one trip. They also told him they had a record of when he left Canada but could not find a record of when he returned and questioned how long he was actually out of Canada on that trip. They then told him he was going to get a form requesting more information and evidence to prove when he returned and the fact that it was only a same day trip. The RQ only delayed us by a few weeks. We submitted the evidence requested pretty quickly (we went a bit overboard to make sure) and he was approved for the oath within a matter of days. Processing was pretty fast during that window.
I did not mean, in any way, to quibble with your anecdotal report. And, the other part, about the extent to which IRCC had extensive detailed information, is indeed an example worth sharing and emphasizing.

Regardless what either a CBSA or IRCC official might seem to know, or not know, in the course of any given transaction, Foreign Nationals and Canadians (including PRs especially) should be aware that the scope of what CBSA/IRCC might know, what they can find out, what they can verify, is often far, far greater than what many realize or give them credit.

The ONLY SAFE BET is to bet they can and will cross-check and verify any information submitted by a client. Very often they do not probe much and let all sorts of things slide by. But relying on that is a fools-gamble.

Thing is, while obviously they get it wrong sometimes (who doesn't?), the focus of IRCC decision making (and as to immigration, CBSA as well) is largely twofold:
-- they must follow and apply certain mandated requirements, but​
-- otherwise it appears they are largely just trying to get it right, to do what is fair and just​

The latter can make it difficult to predict how things will go in a lot of scenarios. Discretionary flexibility or leniency tends to generate widely varying outcomes. Perhaps the most common illustration can be seen by comparing what seems to be quite common:
-- one PR in breach of the RO but not by a whole lot, who is subject to inadmissibility proceedings leading to a Removal Order upon arrival at a PoE, versus​
-- another PR in breach of the RO by quite a lot but waived through the PoE without an issue​

Many factors influence how these things go. Among them is what impression the official has about the credibility of the PR in conjunction with a sense of the PR's intentions . . . while it is not for sure, there is plenty of evidence indicating those perceived to be settled or at least settling in Canada get more leeway.

Which once again brings up the @folks situation. An honest account suffering some gaps, acknowledged and explained, has good odds of going OK as long as @folks is open, upfront, and otherwise has a solid case documenting he meets the PR RO. My apprehension, however, is that is not the situation.