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Case referred to Case Management Branch (CMB) (Triage risk factor: A1 suspected address used)

randomguyhere

Newbie
Dec 29, 2023
5
2
Hello. Got my CBSA notes recently.

One specific section was marked: Triage - A1 suspected address.

Back then (5 years ago) I had no-one in Canada so when I landed, I had to stay for a short period of time in hostel (planned to quickly move to a better place once in Canada). So I needed a more stable address and used my Immigration consultant's address to receive my PR card.

Consultant's address was probably used with too many people prior my citizenship application and was flagged as suspicious in IRCC system.

now my case referred to Case Management Branch (CMB).

does anyone know how long it takes CMB to process a citizenship application and what are the options I have to help my case?
maybe someone had similar case... if so how is that ended?

Tracker statuses:
Language skills - Completed
Citizenship test - Completed
Background verif. - Completed
Physical presence - In progress
Prohibitions - In progress
Ceremony - Not started

Timeline:
AOR - October 2022
Test Passed - March 2023
Interview with officer: August 2023
Background verification: November 2023

thanks in advance.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
Hello. Got my CBSA notes recently.

One specific section was marked: Triage - A1 suspected address.
Please forgive this preliminary tangent . . .

There is a lot to unpack in your post. Not the least is the reference to "Triage - A1 suspected address" . . . which would usually NOT be divulged to the applicant. And this was in CBSA notes? Not GCMS? Not from IRCC rather than CBSA?

But you are probably more interested in how this will affect you.

Hello. Got my CBSA notes recently.

One specific section was marked: Triage - A1 suspected address.

Back then (5 years ago) I had no-one in Canada so when I landed, I had to stay for a short period of time in hostel (planned to quickly move to a better place once in Canada). So I needed a more stable address and used my Immigration consultant's address to receive my PR card.

Consultant's address was probably used with too many people prior my citizenship application and was flagged as suspicious in IRCC system.

now my case referred to Case Management Branch (CMB).

does anyone know how long it takes CMB to process a citizenship application and what are the options I have to help my case?
maybe someone had similar case... if so how is that ended?

Tracker statuses:
Language skills - Completed
Citizenship test - Completed
Background verif. - Completed
Physical presence - In progress
Prohibitions - In progress
Ceremony - Not started

Timeline:
AOR - October 2022
Test Passed - March 2023
Interview with officer: August 2023
Background verification: November 2023

thanks in advance.
Most of all, I do not know where this is headed. It might be time to see a lawyer.

How this will go will likely depend on numerous factors, the additional details in your case.

Frankly (might as well be right up front about it), one worst case scenario is the application is denied and you are prohibited from getting citizenship for five years from the date of that decision. That would be based on a finding you made a misrepresentation in the citizenship application.

If there is a determination that there was misrepresentation in the process of landing, and becoming a PR, that could be grounds for inadmissibility and loss of PR status itself (and obviously the citizenship application would be denied).

At the other end of the spectrum of possible outcomes, this could be seen as a minor discrepancy, no intent to deceive IRCC, perhaps resulting in progress being held up for awhile to cross-check and verify other information, adding up to a longer processing timeline, but still leading to taking the oath and becoming a citizen.

Again, how it actually goes will likely depend on numerous factors, the additional details in your case. Including the details in your citizenship application.

If IRCC determines there was misrepresentation as to address, in terms of verified cases, there was one a decade or so ago. Applicant used address provided by the consultant as the applicant's residential address at time of making the application; reason for doing this was to take advantage of much faster processing timeline in the local office for that address compared to the local office for the address where the applicant actually lived (well, purportedly actually lived). Application denied for misrepresentation.

Address Fudging Generally:

Fudging addresses is common. Really common. Commonly no problem. In most scenarios the odds heavily favour getting away with it. So much so many, perhaps even the common consensus, think doing this is OK.

But then some get caught.

As for getting caught, well, rather few who get caught share their story. So most of the ones we know about are those that end up litigated in the Federal Court, where it tends to not go well for them, as documented in published decisions disclosed to the public.

Still, this is very, very common. There are lots of anecdotal reports from PRs who have used the address of friends, family, business associates, and so on, even though they were not actually living at that address at the time. They had various reasons. Generally they did not get caught. So no problem.

This is, in particular, very common for new PRs who, precisely as you describe, use another's address to facilitate PR card mailing.

But here's the thing (well, one thing): it is hard to grasp that this alone would trigger a problem many years later attendant an application for citizenship. That is to say, easy to guess that IRCC has concerns beyond your use of the consultant's address during landing just to facilitate getting the PR card.

One guess (based on the usual suspects), is you also used that address in your citizenship application.

But, if you didn't, if you only used that address briefly just to get a PR card, years ago, it seems likely IRCC has other concerns. In particular, if in the address history in your citizenship application you accurately reported the addresses where you were actually living, something else is flagging attention, and you probably want to take a deep, hard look at things and consider why else might IRCC have concerns about you. And then decide whether to get help from a lawyer or ride it out.

So, here's the deal: in the citizenship application, in your address history . . .

-- if you accurately reported the addresses where you actually lived, be aware that something other than your use of the consultant's address years ago is likely the cause for concern, which may or may not be a serious issue -- odds are you know enough about your own case to judge if it is time to lawyer-up or just ride it through​
-- you reported an address, in the citizenship application, provided by a consultant that was not the address where you actually resided, that's misrepresentation; and if that is the situation, basically you got caught. If this is the situation, might be time to see a lawyer sooner than later.​

And Another Thing . . . if you used the consultant's address in your citizenship application address history, not only is that what's relevant, way more relevant than having used it years ago to get a PR card, YOU knew that. Time to address the situation head on.

It could still be a minor thing. This could be seen as a minor discrepancy, and there was no intent to deceive IRCC. Again, how that goes likely depends on the details in your case. I noted one, if your application history in the citizenship application included the consultant's address and if so, for what period of time.
 
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randomguyhere

Newbie
Dec 29, 2023
5
2
Thank you for your answer,

as for the question if I included it in my citizenship application, the answer is - no. I used real addresses I have proof for (a bunch of Airbnb's and places I have contracts for).

as for
There is a lot to unpack in your post. Not the least is the reference to "Triage - A1 suspected address" . . . which would usually NOT be divulged to the applicant. And this was in CBSA notes? Not GCMS? Not from IRCC rather than CBSA?
I ordered notes from 3 Canadian agencies:
1) IRCC GCMS notes: here IRCC decided not to share "A1 suspected address" with me, so they removed that part form the notes as well as their decision about "referring the case to CMB"
2) CBSA notes: this one revealed "A1 suspected address " and "CMB reference" notes
3) CSIS notes - still waiting for that one.

feel free to ask more questions if needed. thank you
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,147
8,800
feel free to ask more questions if needed. thank you
What program did you enter Canada under? Was it a 'provincial' (PNP) program? If so, did you subsequently reside and work in that province)? How long did you actually stay at the allegedly suspicious address (if at all), or was it only used as mailing address? Does the immigration consultant's address actually have a hostel or purely just a business/mailing address? (Did the immigration consultant charge significant amounts for that? May not be relevant, not sure)
 

randomguyhere

Newbie
Dec 29, 2023
5
2
What program did you enter Canada under? Was it a 'provincial' (PNP) program? If so, did you subsequently reside and work in that province)? How long did you actually stay at the allegedly suspicious address (if at all), or was it only used as mailing address?
1. Express entry - Federal Skilled Worker
2. As a mailing address only
3. It was their office's address (business address)
4. There was no payment for that service.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
2. As a mailing address only
Since IRCC does not send PR cards to a mailing address, only to residential address, something here does not fit.

But what does not fit more so is that just the use of the consultant's address during the landing, and no more (thus not used in the citizenship application itself) would trigger the suspect address triage hit in processing a citizenship application. Even if the consultant's address was used as a residential address (not just as a mailing address) to facilitate getting the PR card by mail.

It is possible that is all there is to it, and the investigation will be short-lived, causing no serious issues or problems.

More likely, however, there are other concerns involved. The question is whether those concerns are merely matters of verification, resolved by cross-checking information and not likely to cause any serious issues, or whether there there is a serious substantive issue. But if it is the latter, how serious?

I am not suggesting trying to sort this out here in the forum. Far too much of the process in such cases is done behind closed curtains for the forum to anywhere near adequately address what is involved, what drives the decision-making let alone what dictates the outcome. Unless you have a good idea, yourself, what the actual concern might be, it is not likely we can figure out what that is here. The main question you probably want to deal with, for now, is whether to lawyer-up or ride this out.

Which leads to . . .

I ordered notes from 3 Canadian agencies:
1) GCMS notes: here IRCC decided not to share "A1 suspected address" with me, so they removed that part form the notes as well as their decision about referring the case to CMB
2) CBSA notes: this one revealed "A1 suspected address " and "CMB reference" notes
3) CSIS notes - still waiting for that one.

feel free to ask more questions if needed. thank you
Clarification of how you got this is appreciated. Just the fact that "suspect address" is part of the triage criteria is supposed to be confidential, not divulged to the public, let alone the reference to it as "A1." So it is interesting that CBSA has let this slip.

Even the fact that your case is in this process involving a CBSA investigation is ordinarily redacted, not divulged.

Of course many forum participants were already well aware that a suspect address is a key triage factor, confirmed by a leaked copy of the File Requirements Checklist way back in 2012, shortly after it was implemented. And no great insight necessary to be confident this has continued to be a key triage factor -- it is, after all, an entirely obvious factor -- even though we know there have been significant changes made to the triage criteria and how they are applied since getting a copy of the 2012 FRC.

But if the consultant's address was NOT used at all in the citizenship application itself, how and why would that flag a suspect-address leading to a referral to CBSA for an investigation?

That is a serious question but I am not suggesting trying to figure out the answer, not here anyway. (Something to be discussed with a lawyer, if you elect to obtain the assistance of a lawyer.)

There is a temptation, for example, to ask about other aspects of your situation, including whether there were any questions in the interview related to the consultant or the consultant's address, or going into the details of your address history. But as already noted, I am not suggesting trying to sort this out here in the forum because there is far too much of the process done behind closed curtains, in such cases, for the forum to anywhere near adequately address what is involved, what drives the decision-making let alone what dictates the outcome.

Although, if we were trying to sort this out here, it would be helpful to clarify that the August 2023 interview was in fact with a Citizenship Officer, rather than a routine Program Integrity Interview (PII) conducted by an IRCC processing agent (the typical post-test interview); and if it was with a Citizenship Officer, what did the notice for the interview say? But again, not suggesting digging into this here. Just pointing in the direction of potential clues to help YOU decide whether to ride this out or see a lawyer. If, for example, the interview was with a Citizenship Officer (not just a PII with a processing agent) and was in significant part oriented to either your address history, or matters involving you and the consultant, that would be a big clue it was time to lawyer-up.

The problem is knowing if there is a serious issue at stake, with potentially severe consequences. The question being whether to lawyer-up or ride it out.

Unknown Tipping Point:

One of the aspects of this that makes it particularly difficult to discern what is at stake, in addition to the fact that most of this part of processing is done behind closed curtains pursuant to policies and practices that are confidential (secret), is that we have no statistical information about CBSA investigatory referrals. Few applicants suffering lengthy processing timelines go to the lengths it appears you have to uncover what is going on, and even for those who make ATIP requests to CBSA in addition to IRCC, the fact of the referral, reason for the referral, or that CBSA is investigating, is not usually divulged in the response. The agencies sometimes slip. Big time back in 2012 when they sent an applicant a complete copy of the FRC (the FRC is so closely guarded it does even get included in the official tribunal record if the case goes to the Federal Court; even Federal Court justices do not get to see a copy of the FRC).

It is very likely that scores of citizenship applicants have suffered a delay in processing due, at the least, to a referral to CBSA for investigation (usually by its NSSD branch). Many, probably most, probably most by a lot, never know of this, other than inferring it may have happened based on delays in processing their application. How many of these are to the CMB we likewise do not know.

So, there is a huge gap in what we know about the risks. We really have very little insight into whether these referrals signal a serious issue involving a real, substantive problem. Some do, of course. But we do not know whether just having your case referred to the CMB means it is likely there is a serious issue involving a real, substantive problem.

There might be. Usually, as long as those involved are being open and honest and objective with themselves, the affected person will have a good idea what the underlying problem is . . . no one knows the case better than the applicant, after all.

All this has been taking the long road around to cautioning this could be about your status as a PR, not just the citizenship application. Maybe not. But if there is no reason to suspect any of the addresses you reported in the citizenship application, this might very well be about your admissibility as a Permanent Resident, potentially about grounds to revoke your PR status.

Again, YOU know your case as well as anyone. Your history. Your relationship to the consultant. (Questions for YOU to ask yourself, for example, is this an authorized consultant? If so, still in good standing?) What information was provided in your PR visa case. What information you have reported in the citizenship case. What sort of questions were asked in the interview. And so on . . . way too much to try to unravel in the forum and we cannot make much of it anyway, given how much behind the curtain the relevant inquiry/investigation is conducted . . . but things to consider in trying to assess, as best you can, whether it is time to lawyer-up.

That's the question: Is it time for you to lawyer-up? Obviously, the sense that would be a good idea is underlying my observations. I do not know, not close, but given what could be at stake (again, this could be about your PR status itself), my sense leans in the direction of taking precautions. Of course what you can afford matters. And, to be redundant, this question is framed by what you know about yourself and your case . . . if you are very confident there is no reason to apprehend CBSA will find misrepresentation or other cause to deny the citizenship application or revoke your PR status, that would lean toward riding this out.

HOW LONG?

Unpredictable. Depends on what is at stake. If there is nothing to see, no real substantive issue, this could be resolved quite soon. But it could take a long time, or even a very, very long time, if the underlying cause for this is a serious issue. Known cases range from resolved in short order to taking a year or two, and some taking many years (some even going longer than a decade, but of course those are extremely unusual cases).
 

randomguyhere

Newbie
Dec 29, 2023
5
2
here is the final update.
Case was approved by Case Management Branch (took them 3-4 months to do that) and returned back to my initial IRCC agent.
Application was successfully approved by IRCC.

so to anyone who got into similar situation - don't stress too much and don't listen to any fearmonger who tries to profit from you that way. As long as you told the truth in your application, you should be fine.

Citizenship oath completed: April 2024

Cheers
 
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