Candid thoughts on "red flags"

[Kaibigan]

It probably would be the case that doesn't outright need corrected, but I'm reconsidering given passage of time; with the additional info that you can show that you spent four additional months or so together after sending in application, I now think that's a little something you can add for a kicker.

I also believe that end-of-year/last quarter flurry of approvals as pressure to clear the desks is a real thing (but have to avoid any student visa crunch times). Having supportive info land on the desk at the right time can't hurt, and early October is way better than August for timing.

Of course entirely possible it will all come along in its own time without this, so who knows.

I think that in the next few days I should send a webform addressing the couple of items in the GCMS notes and pointing out that I was in the Phils for 4 months last winter. Maybe sending in something will get the application dug out of a filing cabinet and give things a little nudge.

Right now, I am being spurred on by the fact that a few minutes ago received the PPR request for my wife's sister. Given that her file is in Manila office, the emails always come at night here, when it's business hours there. I am happy for them, but sad for us. We had hoped the sisters would be approved at about the same time and both us us husbands would go together to the Phils to bring our wives to Canada. Looks like my wife has to be left behind. Depressing.

 

[canuck78]

I think that in the next few days I should send a webform addressing the couple of items in the GCMS notes and pointing out that I was in the Phils for 4 months last winter. Maybe sending in something will get the application dug out of a filing cabinet and give things a little nudge.

Right now, I am being spurred on by the fact that a few minutes ago received the PPR request for my wife's sister. Given that her file is in Manila office, the emails always come at night here, when it's business hours there. I am happy for them, but sad for us. We had hoped the sisters would be approved at about the same time and both us us husbands would go together to the Phils to bring our wives to Canada. Looks like my wife has to be left behind. Depressing.

Sponsoring your first wife as an employee was a bit questionable if you were dating during that time but given you had such a long relationship it would be discounted. Think the biggest potential question mark is the fact that both sisters are being sponsored at the same time. At least in your relationship you have spent significant time together compared to the other couple. You haven’t mentioned your age. Are you retired or able to work remotely? Is there a reason you are the other couple’s rep on their sponsorship application? Did you know the sister’s husband before he started dating the sister? If anything the other couple has more to worry about versus you although your both have spent a significant amount of time together compared to other couples so I wouldn’t worry much.

 

[Kaibigan]

Sponsoring your first wife as an employee was a bit questionable if you were dating during that time but given you had such a long relationship it would be discounted. Think the biggest potential question mark is the fact that both sisters are being sponsored at the same time. At least in your relationship you have spent significant time together compared to the other couple. You haven’t mentioned your age. Are you retired or able to work remotely? Is there a reason you are the other couple’s rep on their sponsorship application? Did you know the sister’s husband before he started dating the sister? If anything the other couple has more to worry about versus you although your both have spent a significant amount of time together compared to other couples so I wouldn’t worry much.

Thank you canuck. Good points.

I agree with point about sponsoring first wife as an employee. Here's some of the backstory. I knew nothing then (2002) about immigration. I was living in Manila and planning to come to Canada for 3 months and the idea was hatched (by a third party) for her to come with me. We were not in a dating or other relationship at the time. I took her to the Canadian Embassy in Makati (Manila) and said we wanted to get her a tourist visa. They said not much hope of that. We were literally turning to walk out and forget the idea when the embassy employee said "Just a minute...you say she works for you?" I said yes. He said "Well, in that case, she can go as your 'personal servant'". I said "Call her what you like, as long as she can go." And we got the visa.

The two sisters thing is a bit of an anomaly, as you point out. My wife and I met online in October 2019, when I had a trip booked to the Phils a few weeks later and I decided to see if there might be anyone interesting to meet during that trip. I corresponded with a number of women and came up with 3 that looked possible. I met the first one on the list a week after arriving there and things went so well, I did not see the others. We had a month together and when I got back to Canada in late December I filled out her TRV application (submitted in January 2020). It was denied just about the time the pandemic arrived, so that kept us apart due to travel prohibitions for 2 years.

My wife's sister, apparently inspired by my wife's online experience, decided to have a go at online dating. She and her now husband connected online in July 2020. They could not meet in person until travel was again permitted in as of Feb. 10/22. I returned to the Phils on Feb. 18 and stayed for 3 months. He arrived in Phils around March 15 and they had committed to marry sight unseen (braver than I). The four of us married at same ceremony in April and he returned to Canada next day. His work does not allow him more than a month off. I work online and can be wherever I like in the world at any time. He went back for 1 month in August/Sept. 2022. I went back in November and stayed until April 2023. My work does not require my presence in Canada, but the house and lands I have here does. Much to do in the good weather months.

I am their rep because, being the only attorney in the group, I was elected as rep for all, being deemed to likely be more adept at filling in paperwork than the others. Probably true. The others are not particularly computer literate, own only cellphones, and I think doing the online applications would be a challenge on a cellphone even if one has a lot of savvy about completing such applications.

No, I have not mentioned my age on the forum (not many do), apart to say here before that we have an "age gap relationship". Over 20 years. The other couple have a gap of 17 years. The sisters are close in age, both about 40. He has grown children. His wife has 3 much younger children. My wife never had kids. I have one. I should add that my first wife was just 2 weeks past her 19th birthday when we arrived in Canada in 2002. She and my wife now are same age.

In a "Letter of Explanation" among other things, I decided to tell the IRCC more about my relationship with my first wife, how it came to be, etc. I prefaced that part of the letter, saying:

There is maybe no particular reason to say this next bit, since I am asked nothing about previous relationships, but I’ll comment.

After setting out the detail, I closed with the words:

So, all this is just an aside, but maybe you want some more insight into who I am. Why I have again married a Filipina. Maybe what I have said offers a bit of insight.

Looking back, perhaps I should have said nothing. That's because I am presently feeling a bit paranoid about our application and second guessing everything.

Not sure it's possible to send you a pm, since many block them. If you are interested and agree not to publish it on the forum, I'll send you what was written between the 2 quotes, above. For good or bad, it describes how it turned out that I married my employee.

 

[armoured]

In a "Letter of Explanation" among other things, I decided to tell the IRCC more about my relationship with my first wife, how it came to be, etc. I prefaced that part of the letter, saying:

There is maybe no particular reason to say this next bit, since I am asked nothing about previous relationships, but I’ll comment.
...
So, all this is just an aside, but maybe you want some more insight into who I am. Why I have again married a Filipina. Maybe what I have said offers a bit of insight.

Looking back, perhaps I should have said nothing.

I would not say that 'nothing' is the correct answer, but I would be inclined to say that this sounds more like the ruminations of a Dostoyevsky character, when what is needed is mostly short, direct answers - fact, dates, basic narrative, and not much more. It's easy to sound defensive. Stick to boring.

And if there is 'no particular reason' to include something - well, don't.

To me the basic narrative is that you used to be based in the PH and have personal and professional ties to the country and continue to travel there periodically, and you met someone from there (again). Nothing odd about that, and you succeeded in making it sound so - a little bit, anyway.

This will still be fine, of course, just they'll read it more times to figure it out than they'd have done if it was tedium incarnate.

 

[Kaibigan]

I would not say that 'nothing' is the correct answer, but I would be inclined to say that this sounds more like the ruminations of a Dostoyevsky character, when what is needed is mostly short, direct answers - fact, dates, basic narrative, and not much more. It's easy to sound defensive. Stick to boring.

And if there is 'no particular reason' to include something - well, don't.

To me the basic narrative is that you used to be based in the PH and have personal and professional ties to the country and continue to travel there periodically, and you met someone from there (again). Nothing odd about that, and you succeeded in making it sound so - a little bit, anyway.

This will still be fine, of course, just they'll read it more times to figure it out than they'd have done if it was tedium incarnate.

Sensible thoughts, as usual @armoured. As I offered to @canuck78, I don't mind sharing with you the material not published here. However, I see you don't receive PMs. I considered that it might alleviate some of the concerns about my previous sponsorship of a Filipina. Probably really unnecessary since, according to the GCMS notes, they found no record of her...no UCI# etc. I suspect that they searched by her name. If the notes reflect that they searched under, no wonder they did not find her. They misspelled her last name.

I would also have thought any misgivings about me as sponsor, past relationships, etc., would have been aired at the sponsorship approval stage. We have passed that, my wife's background check is done and eligibility now ongoing since May 24. Would my past conduct come up at that stage? I would think only if they saw something to suggest our relationship is less than genuine. I can't guess at anything that might give an indication of that sort.

 

[armoured]

Sensible thoughts, as usual @armoured. As I offered to @canuck78, I don't mind sharing with you the material not published here. However, I see you don't receive PMs. I considered that it might alleviate some of the concerns about my previous sponsorship of a Filipina. Probably really unnecessary since, according to the GCMS notes, they found no record of her...no UCI# etc. I suspect that they searched by her name. If the notes reflect that they searched under, no wonder they did not find her. They misspelled her last name.

I've not blocked off the PMs, I just usually delete them (as 99% of time they're questions that should just be asked in the fora). But really no need to send on to me.

I don't mean to exaggerate, I doubt there's much of an issue; I just beat the drum about 'keep it simple and factual'.

I would also have thought any misgivings about me as sponsor, past relationships, etc., would have been aired at the sponsorship approval stage. We have passed that, my wife's background check is done and eligibility now ongoing since May 24. Would my past conduct come up at that stage? I would think only if they saw something to suggest our relationship is less than genuine. I can't guess at anything that might give an indication of that sort.

As far as I can tell, the sponsor approval stage seems to be purely a technical 'meets the requirements / checks the boxes' check. If there is something more, I've not seen (but perhaps in some corner cases). Not much if any evaluation seems to take place apart from that part. For example, even for those sponsoring from abroad (as I'd done) - no analysis, just 'is a citizen' (in addition to the other sponsor checks); the 'intent to return to Canada part' is later.

And if there's anything about your past (which it does not soudn like), gets tossed in the overall hopper of genuine relationship/eligibility, really. Keep in mind there's just as much* likelihood of there having been something come up about your spouse that made them go through another round.

*I don't mean in a strict maths sense, just overall.

 

[canuck78]

Thanks scylla.

We met in person in the Phils in November 2019 and had a month together. I expected to go back in maybe March of 2020 and spend more time. We applied for TRV in January 2020, asking for a visit in summer 2020. Covid came along in February 2020 and kept me out of the Phils until it reopened for tourists on Feb. 10, 2022. Covid also would have prevented her coming here on a TRV in summer 2020, even had it been granted.

I arrived back in Phils on Feb. 18, 2022 and stayed for 3 months. While there, in March 2022, applied for TRV for summer visit in summer 2022. Denied. We were married in April. After my 3 months there in spring 2022, I went back again in November. We went to Dubai as soon as I got there in order to get her Dubai pcc and filed her PR application in late November 2022, as soon as we got the pcc. On that trip, I stayed for 4 months. So, a total of about 8 months together since our first day together in late 2019.

By comparison, my wife's sister met her husband online in July 2020. They could not meet in person until the Phils reopened in February 2022. He arrived there in March and stayed for one month. They married within a few weeks of that first face-to-face meeting. He returned for a month starting early August 2022. He had another 1-month visit in spring 2023. So, they have had a total of 3 months together.

I gave our third TRV application (made in March 2023) anxious consideration, having failed twice already. I took the chance because when we applied, my wife's PR application had been in progress for 4 months, we had AOR, SA, medical exam done and passed, required PCCs submitted, etc. So I thought we would be seen as more serious candidates. Also, as before, we were pressing for a summer visit. The motive there is that my principal residence is on a large, oceanfront acreage. In summer, it's a paradise. The kind of place many would be delighted to visit. I could probably get at least $5,000 week for it on Airbnb in summer. In winter, it has much less appeal. It's somewhat remote (one of its main charms in summer) and weather can be crappy. I have to be there in summer. That's when I do maintenance, tend orchard and gardens, etc. In winter, I might just as well be in the Phils and be warm. With the TRV applications, I even sent pics of the place in summer, and under snow in winter, to show why summer was important. A wasted effort.

So, we lost summer 2020, 2021, 2022 and now 2023. I am happy to winter again in the Phils, but I am anxious to have this PR thing decided, one way or another. It's causing a lot of anxiety. I asked my wife what she would want if approved for PR in fall/winter. Would she prefer to delay coming to Canada, for me to come there, and spend the winter in her country? She wants to come here as soon as they will let her, poor weather or no. My guess is she won't want to spend winter at my principal residence. That's okay. I have a nice condo in Victoria. But we can stay wherever she chooses.

I was prepared to go to the Phils next month and stay there until next spring, waiting there for her PR decision (and relying on the 13-month processing time posted on the IRCC site, although I am aware of some getting here from Phils in 10 months). But now, my paranoia is fuelled by the apparent early success of her sister's application, wondering why not us. So, the waiting has become much harder.

Older man (often Caucasian) meeting a much younger South Asian woman is fairly common occurrence. Many women are desperate to provide a better life for their families and end up in awful situations. There certainly examples where is does work out well and many of woman in South Asian are now highly educated, run their owns businesses, etc. Most would be unlikely to marry a Philippino mans 20+ years older than them except maybe very wealthy. The fact that you have spent so much time in person together should alleviate any concern about your relationship. There may an interview requirement to ensure that your spouse wants to be in this relationship because the region does have a problem with women being trafficked, women being lured by false promises of an easy life and money in countries like the US, Canada, Europe, etc. and women not understanding the laws in Canada that protect spouses and new immigrants. Concerns about an application can be raised after getting sponsor approval. Sponsor approval just proves that you are eligible to sponsor someone.

The bigger issue is your wife sister and BIL. Does the BIL live in Canada? In the same city as you? IRCC strongly discourages getting married during your first in person meeting. It doesn’t mean refusal is guaranteed but it is best to at least meet once, return home and then get married on the next visit. Delaying marriage even longer would be better but not possible in many cases for good reasons. The fact that your SIL started looking for a spouse abroad after her sister had met someone raises alarm bells. If she was looking for someone to who lives in Canada and lives near you and where her sister will be living there could certainly be concerns that she was looking n for a husband who had to live in a certain location. There could be concerns that she got married so she could join her sister in Canada and be close to her. If your BIL lives across the country that isn’t an issue but if you live in the same city there could be some concern about her intentions when it came to her marriage. Which couple got engaged first? Even if her primary goal was to join her sister in Canada a real relationship could have developed. It is just a very unusual situation.

 

[Kaibigan]

...
The bigger issue is your wife sister and BIL. Does the BIL live in Canada? In the same city as you? IRCC strongly discourages getting married during your first in person meeting. It doesn’t mean refusal is guaranteed but it is best to at least meet once, return home and then get married on the next visit. Delaying marriage even longer would be better but not possible in many cases for good reasons. The fact that your SIL started looking for a spouse abroad after her sister had met someone raises alarm bells. If she was looking for someone to who lives in Canada and lives near you and where her sister will be living there could certainly be concerns that she was looking n for a husband who had to live in a certain location. There could be concerns that she got married so she could join her sister in Canada and be close to her. If your BIL lives across the country that isn’t an issue but if you live in the same city there could be some concern about her intentions when it came to her marriage. Which couple got engaged first? Even if her primary goal was to join her sister in Canada a real relationship could have developed. It is just a very unusual situation.

I tend to agree. But then, it strikes me as odd that wife's sister and BIL got approved so quickly. They met online in July 2020 and met for the first time in March 2022, when he made his first trip there (like the rest of us, due to covid, he could not go there before Feb./22). They married within 3 weeks of first meeting. So, while it should have been a red flag for them, it was not.

I live on the coast and BIL lives in the BC interior. Even going by air, it's a half day to get from here to where he lives. Driving, ferries, etc., would take most of a day.

As for which couple got engaged first, hard to say. In our case, I have to admit there was no formal "engagement". There came a time when both of us seemed to assume we would get married. There were no formal words used or ring giving to mark the occasion, because the assumption that marriage would eventually occur was made during a time when we were kept apart. As for sister and BIL, I think they were maybe engaged first, since it seems they intended marriage within days of first online meeting. They were committed to marry, long before first in-person meeting. That's not something I would do, but seems to have worked for them. Moreover, I would be even less likely to commit with no in-person meeting when, as part of the package, I am agreeing to stand in loco parentis to 3 young kids I have never met. That takes guts. But, he did it and started sending support from almost Day 1.