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Canada stiffens sentences for drunk driving, raising new immigration concerns

mch88

Member
Sep 26, 2018
13
2
There is no contradiction. Look closely!

I mentioned that if you received a sentence, fine, community service or any other form of punishment in your case then it will count as a conviction. If you only had probation and an agreement to drop the case on good behavior in the future then it will not count as a conviction as that will be equivalent to a conditional discharge in Canada.

I am not citing my opinions here but what actually is in IRCC operating manuals. If you had been sentenced or fined in your previous DUI case then you are unfortunately inadmissible to Canada and must wait to go through rehabilitation.
Hey @LifeDreamer,

Once again just trying to have a educated discussion about this and get to the bottom of this.

Could you explain where in the IRCC operating manuals that any sentence, fine, community service or any form of punishment counts as a conviction? I've looked through a lot of the ENF manuals and not sure where that is? With regards to the case, we have documentation stating that the charges were dismissed, and records expunged (according to the ENF2 manual, US expungement is suppose to be equivocal to a not guilty charge and is not a conviction), so I'm not sure why fines/program costs, or any form of punishment counts as a conviction? It doesn't really make sense to be that charges can be dismissed after the probationary period, and it still be a conviction? If you could point me to the cited source that would be great!

I've been doing some research and there are cases/appeals that some attorneys have cited with regards to conditional discharges outside of Canada. If you look in this Immigration Appeal case (https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2011/2011canlii73050/2011canlii73050.pdf), this gentleman was convicted of impaired driving charge (actual conviction), and sentenced to a conditional discharge. The court determined that the man was deemed not to be convicted, given he completed his conditional discharge.

As well, FBI report came back clean.

May I ask your experience on this? Certainly if you are work in this field and feel I am misinformed, I'm happy for you to educate me!
 
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LifeDreamer

Hero Member
Feb 14, 2018
499
122
Hey @LifeDreamer,

Once again just trying to have a educated discussion about this and get to the bottom of this.

Could you explain where in the IRCC operating manuals that any sentence, fine, community service or any form of punishment counts as a conviction? I've looked through a lot of the ENF manuals and not sure where that is? With regards to the case, we have documentation stating that the charges were dismissed, and records expunged (according to the ENF2 manual, US expungement is suppose to be equivocal to a not guilty charge and is not a conviction), so I'm not sure why fines/program costs, or any form of punishment counts as a conviction? It doesn't really make sense to be that charges can be dismissed after the probationary period, and it still be a conviction? If you could point me to the cited source that would be great!

I've been doing some research and there are cases/appeals that some attorneys have cited with regards to conditional discharges outside of Canada. If you look in this Immigration Appeal case (https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2011/2011canlii73050/2011canlii73050.pdf), this gentleman was convicted of impaired driving charge (actual conviction), and sentenced to a conditional discharge. The court determined that the man was deemed not to be convicted, given he completed his conditional discharge.

May I ask your experience on this? Certainly if you are work in this field and feel I am misinformed, I'm happy for you to educate me!
Most states in the US have so-called "diversion" programs aimed at first-time offenders or to deal with minor offenses. These programs provide most people the false illusion of getting out of the criminal justice system by not going to court or having to face jail time for the offenses they have allegedly committed. These programs rely on the individual filling out a form to request this which essentially implies admitting the offense and waiving any rights to a trial as the defendant will instead undergo an "alternative" form of correction such as anger management courses or alcohol/drug addiction therapy (and pay for the costs too). The court clerk will dismiss the case but this is just because the defendant elected to go into the program (you can usually see in court dockets a reference to the diversion program). It does not mean the defendant is not guilty as the dismissal is immediately entered and is not contingent on the result of the diversion program as opposed to a conditional discharge. The effect of this is that the individual will not receive a formal criminal record in that state however background check companies can still find the arrest records and the court records and this will still have a negative impact on that individual's employment prospects and such. They also face a problem with admissibility to Canada and must go through rehabilitation if the offense is equivalent to something in Canada.

Some people are "sentenced" to probation either normally or as part of a plea deal. This is not considered conditional discharge.

The case you cited is not in contradiction with what I said previously. Here the applicant received a conditional discharge for his DUI offense in 2008 and was deemed admissible. They received a refusal in the beginning because they did not provide any evidence to the officer (you can see that the evidence of the conditional discharge was provided in submissions later in court). If they had provided it from the beginning they wouldn't have been rejected.

Regarding expungement not all expungements in the US are recognized by Canada. The expungement statute has to have similar conditions as those required for a pardon in Canada and the effect of the expungement also have to be similar. Sadly this is not always the case with many US states as you can see some "weak" expungements that only hide the record somewhat and still stipulate many exceptions for what that individual can or cannot assume as a result of the expungement. For example, the expungement statute in California will only mark the case as dismissed, is available to any offender convicted of most minor offenses and can be applied for as soon as one is released from imprisonment or probation. For these reasons that expungement is ineffective at admissibility but can be useful when applying for rehabilitation.

Bottom-line I think you are admissible from the description you have mentioned about your case however I cannot be certain as I do not know what is in your record or what state your offense took place. If your fine(s) were court fees or administrative things I wouldn't be worried about them.
 

mch88

Member
Sep 26, 2018
13
2
The case you cited is not in contradiction with what I said previously. Here the applicant received a conditional discharge for his DUI offense in 2008 and was deemed admissible. They received a refusal in the beginning because they did not provide any evidence to the officer (you can see that the evidence of the conditional discharge was provided in submissions later in court). If they had provided it from the beginning they wouldn't have been rejected.
My point with this example, was that despite his admission of guilt, and conviction for impaired driving outside of Canada, his conditional discharge was allowed him to be admissible.

Most states in the US have so-called "diversion" programs aimed at first-time offenders or to deal with minor offenses. These programs provide most people the false illusion of getting out of the criminal justice system by not going to court or having to face jail time for the offenses they have allegedly committed. These programs rely on the individual filling out a form to request this which essentially implies admitting the offense and waiving any rights to a trial as the defendant will instead undergo an "alternative" form of correction such as anger management courses or alcohol/drug addiction therapy (and pay for the costs too). The court clerk will dismiss the case but this is just because the defendant elected to go into the program (you can usually see in court dockets a reference to the diversion program). It does not mean the defendant is not guilty as the dismissal is immediately entered and is not contingent on the result of the diversion program as opposed to a conditional discharge. The effect of this is that the individual will not receive a formal criminal record in that state however background check companies can still find the arrest records and the court records and this will still have a negative impact on that individual's employment prospects and such. They also face a problem with admissibility to Canada and must go through rehabilitation if the offense is equivalent to something in Canada.

Some people are "sentenced" to probation either normally or as part of a plea deal. This is not considered conditional discharge.
A lot of the state programs use different language, conditional discharge programs, pre-trial disposition, etc. It'd be great if you could explain to me where in the literature (or if you have your own experience/expertise in the matter, I'd love to hear that too), one can differentiate what qualifies as a conditional discharge program, versus the diversion programs that you feel would affect admissibility. In PA, you do have to waive your rights to a speedy trial, because your adjudication is deferred until completion of the probation/program. You don't waive your right to trial, because if you fail the program, you go back to trial.

Bottom-line I think you are admissible from the description you have mentioned about your case however I cannot be certain as I do not know what is in your record or what state your offense took place. If your fine(s) were court fees or administrative things I wouldn't be worried about them.
Case occurred in Pennsylvania, and dismissed/expunged through the Accelerated Rehabilitation Disposition (ARD) program (https://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter3/chap3toc.html). You do have to pay restitution, which I believe are related to program costs.

The program consists of a probationary period, payment of program costs, license suspension, substance education/treatment. If we're talking about similarity to Canadian law, this is similar to the conditional discharge/curative discharge for an over 80 that @Femlala described.
On completion of the program, the deferred charges are dismissed and records expunged.
"When the defendant shall have completed satisfactorily the program prescribed and complied with its conditions, the defendant may move the court for an order dismissing the charges...When the judge orders the dismissal of the charges against the defendant, the judge also shall order the expungement of the defendant’s arrest record"

Once again, I'm not sure what exactly what defines an acceptable conditional discharge, in terms differentiating the different programs in the states with regards to admissibility. If we're talking about the laws having similar laws and goals as Canadian law, I feel what I described in the state code is fairly inline with the conditional discharge/curative discharge femalala was talking about. Once again, if you have sources from operating manuals or policies, or even personal/professional experience, I'd love to see/hear it so I can try to understand it.
 

LifeDreamer

Hero Member
Feb 14, 2018
499
122
The expungement action you had is not rehabilitative in nature but is just part of the ARC program. It is not similar to a pardon in Canada and so it does not apply to you when you read about expungement in enforcement manuals ..etc. However you were not convicted to begin with so it doesn't matter in your case.

The ARC program clearly stipulates that it is a deferral of prosecution program. The order prevents information from being filed in the court for the duration of the program and affords the opportunity to order the case dismissed and expunged upon successful completion of the program. The expungement part is not needed but it was a bonus in your case, the deferral part is what's important. You are admissible only if you can show court certified documents showing that your prosecution was being deferred and that your case was subsequently dismissed/expunged following an ARC program. That piece of paper will allow you to apply for any Canadian visa. You do not have to apply for rehabilitation.

Your disposition is not the same as a conditional discharge in Canada, it is actually better. A conditional discharge allows charges to be withdrawn later by the crown whereas deferral of prosecution prevents them from being filed in the first place. This is significant in one aspect which is if they were not filed in your case then you can also legally answer no to a question about having ever been charged with an offense. However you still have to answer yes to having been arrested or detained/incarcerated in the immigration background forms.

In my experience, Canadian border officers tend to refuse entry to travelers who state that they were arrested or charged for an equivalent offense in Canada if there was any suspicion that they were convicted of that offense, even if that individual was in fact acquitted or had the charges dropped. If the FBI database does not show the final disposition of the case the burden is on the traveler to show that the case was dismissed without a conviction. Usually, they don't deny each and everyone who fits this bill however because the officer has to make a hasty decision in the neck of time about whether they admit that person or not they would take clues like when the person says they were sentenced, paid a fine, did community service ..etc that they are were likely convicted and therefore inadmissible. Also, factors such as the nature of the offense and if the arrest was fairly recent come into play. There is great disparity in the process and you can see evidence of this on reality TV series border security.
 

robertobolano

Full Member
Jun 13, 2018
40
20
Canada
AOR Received.
15-07-2020
For what it is worth, my wife had her sentence converted through a similar type of diversionary first time offender program, and we still ended up getting PPR request today (after much hand wringing, I should add). I think there is some discretion afforded to the officers in cases like this.