First I did not need it as I was travelling to Canada from US in my car.david1697 said:********************
Of course you can travel with COPR, but you would be referred to secondary each time you entered Canada without a Card.
Most importantly: why shouldn't you get a PR card, free of charge, when you are entitled to get it under the CIC instructions?
1. You ignore the expiry date on PR card, you Residential obligations start the day you "landed".kumbu.bumbu said:First I did not need it as I was travelling to Canada from US in my car.
Second I got a PR card on later date gave me a validity of 5 years from actual moving date instead of actual landing date. Which could be helpful for few folks to complete residency obligations.
I think you are confused. I didn't suggest you can't enter Canada from US with COPR and your Passport.kumbu.bumbu said:First I did not need it as I was travelling to Canada from US in my car.
Second I got a PR card on later date gave me a validity of 5 years from actual moving date instead of actual landing date. Which could be helpful for few folks to complete residency obligations.
Secondary inspection!? hmmmm!! May be it is there. I did not experience any. So I do not know about it. I did not even get out of the car each time I crossed the border.david1697 said:I think you are confused. I didn't suggest you can't enter Canada from US with COPR and your Passport.
What I said was that if you don't have a PR Card you will be sent to secondary inspection.
As to validity of PR Card, date of it's issue doesn't do anything to help with RO obligation.
Just letting you know, if landed immigrant doesn't have a PR Card they will more likely than not be sent to secondary. You weren't, but others are.kumbu.bumbu said:Secondary inspection!? hmmmm!! May be it is there. I did not experience any. So I do not know about it. I did not even get out of the car each time I crossed the border.
I landed in Dec 2009. I moved permanently in Aug 2010. I have a valid PR card until Aug 2015.
According to you if I did not fulfill the RO obligation in Dec 2014 (5 years from the landing date had I got the PR card immediately)I may not be able to travel even with a valid PR card. I don't think so.
Good point.david1697 said:Just letting you know, if landed immigrant doesn't have a PR Card they will more likely than not be sent to secondary. You weren't, but others are.
"Traveling" is not the same as retaining PR status. You can "travel" with valid PR card, as a PR you are entitled to be admitted to Canada.
However, if you don't fulfill RO you are subject to be reported by CBSA to CIC, and then you either appeal and win your appeal based on some exception to RO, or else you are stripped of PR status and ordered deported. CBSA has a power of discretion (can choose to report or not report you), but under the law you can be stripped of your PR status if reported. No ifs and buts about it, just a plain fact, read ENF 23.
That's where the error is. You think CBSA looks at validity period of the card and assume that just because it has 730+ days you are off the hook.kumbu.bumbu said:Good point.
But I am not talking about not fulfilling RO. I am talking about the time you have to fulfill it. My guess is my RO ends when my PR card expires instead of not from 5 years from the day I landed. You may argue with legal points. But I don't think practically if I have a 0 days of residency and 731 days of validity of PR card I would ever get reported.
That is where I disagree. You may be right. But practically I doubt CBSA would go that far when you have a valid PR card for next 730 days.david1697 said:That's where the error is. You think CBSA looks at validity period of the card and assume that just because it has 730+ days you are off the hook.
It doesn't work like that. The rolling 5 year period is what counts. If you became a PR in January 01, 2009, then left Canada on 01/02/2009 for almost three years, came back on 12/30/2011, applied for a card and received a Card valid from 04/2012 through 04/2017, left Canada in 05/2012 and attempted to enter Canada in March of 2015 (with 730+ days left on your card), you would fail RO , because you would have only about 5 months of presence in Canada in the 5 years preceding the March of 2015, far less than 730 days needed. Your card would be valid for another 2 years and a month, but you would already have failed your RO.
Immigrants are actually warned in this regard ,by CIC none the less, and specifically told that it's their presence for 730 days out of 5 years that matters, not mere dates in PR card. If what you said was true then anyone who just landed could leave Canada for up to 3 years,then touch the ground for few months and apply for initial PR then leave for another 3 years and come back, still having 2 years of validity on the PR card.kumbu.bumbu said:That is where I disagree. You may be right. But practically I doubt CBSA would go that far when you have a valid PR card for next 730 days.
But I cannot test it as I fulfilled RO long back. I hardly left Canada except for 4 months in last five years.
There is a period (180 days if my memory is right as the CBSA officer told me) within which you have to update the address. When I moved to Canada permanently I updated the address in the website. I don't think you can do that after 3 years.david1697 said:Immigrants are actually warned in this regard ,by CIC none the less, and specifically told that it's their presence for 730 days out of 5 years that matters, not mere dates in PR card. If what you said was true then anyone who just landed could leave Canada for up to 3 years,then touch the ground for few months and apply for initial PR then leave for another 3 years and come back, still having 2 years of validity on the PR card.
Remember that RO and PR Card validity dates are two distinctly different things.
You can apply for PR Card anytime, it's just not FREE after certain limited period of time (instead, you actually apply for a card and pay $50. Can't just update CIC of your address and receive a card without paying a fee).kumbu.bumbu said:There is a period (180 days if my memory is right as the CBSA officer told me) within which you have to update the address. When I moved to Canada permanently I updated the address in the website. I don't think you can do that after 3 years.
And BTW you are not eligible for a PR card if you are not living in Canada.
Immigrants are specifically told by CBSA when they land (and leave) they are NOT ELIGIBLE for the PR card until they move permanently and live in Canada.
Lot of people give some friend's address for the convenience of having a PR card. I did not do that.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/pr-card/apply-who.asp
Determine your eligibility — Permanent Resident Card
You can apply for a permanent resident card (PR card) if you:
• have permanent resident status,
• are in Canada,
• have not been asked by the Government of Canada to leave the country, and
• are not a Canadian citizen or a registered Indian under the Indian Act.
As usual I am 100% wrong as I understand English(as second language) differently. Also CBSA officials are doing wrong when they refuse to update the address for PR card until we live in a Canadian address. Thank you for educating me.david1697 said:You can apply for PR Card anytime, it's just not FREE after certain limited period of time (instead, you actually apply for a card and pay $50. Can't just update CIC of your address and receive a card without paying a fee).
Once you apply, your RO will be tested. If you meet RO you are entitled to PR Card, no matter when you apply for it , even if you apply for it 20 years after.
The second part of your post (about moving and eligibility) is not grounded in law. As a matter of law, you don't have to live in Canada to apply for PR Card. Definition of "Are" is not the same as "Living in/Moved permanently to".
You must submit your application (or update of your address) from within Canada ("Are"), meaning you MUST BE IN CANADA AT THE TIME WHEN you are updating CIC of your address or apply for a Card. You can leave immediately after updating/applying.
I don't know why CBSA tells immigrants they must move to Canada before applying for PR Card , but there are in fact instructions on CIC page which inform how you can land, update CIC of your address and leave Canada.
A lot of people misunderstand legal instructions, including many of those whose first language is English.kumbu.bumbu said:As usual I am 100% wrong as I understand English(as second language) differently. Also CBSA officials are doing wrong when they refuse to update the address for PR card until we live in a Canadian address. Thank you for educating me.
Lot of people Including CBSA officials isunderstand legal instructions, including many of those whose first language is English.david1697 said:A lot of people misunderstand legal instructions, including many of those whose first language is English.
I myself sometimes have to read the same sentence few times before I am able to understand what it actually means and how it fits within a larger context of other, seemingly contradicting to each other rules and regulations. And, just like yourself, I struggle too since English is not even my second language. We all help and educate each other. Thank you for your contribution as well.
kumbu.bumbu, giving a friends address and departing Canada is not the same as living in Canada.kumbu.bumbu said:They have no clue that giving a friends address and move out is live in Canada.
