Can I stay outside Canada under this situation?

[murakami]

Dear All,

I would like to have your comment under following circmstance, whether I can stay out of Canada and Keep my PR status.
For example:
2002-01-01, landed
2004-01-02, exit Canada back to home country (731 days)
2006-12-31, re-enter Canada (I can enter Canada after 3 years out of Canada, is it?)
2007-01-01, apply for new PR Card and stay in Canada
2007-03-01 for example, PR Card arrives
2007-03-02, leave Canada and back to home country
2010-03-01, Can I enter Canada again as Permanent Resident?

Another Question: During the time I apply my new PR card and before it arrives, I have to stay in Canada but not allow to leave, is it right?

Please share your opinions.
THANK YOU.

 

[murakami]

Asking this question is because I heard from my friend said, the policy of obtain a PR status is,
The person has to stay at least 730 days in "any of 5 years", but not every 5 years.

For example, he entered Canada and stayed from 2007-01-01 to 2009-01-01, and leave Canada, and back to Canada on 2011-12-31, and apply new PR card. Then he should not leave Canada because, once he leaves Canada, he will not able to get 730 days count in "any of 5 years)

Any of 5 years mean,
the 2nd year to 6th year, has to stay at least 730 days
the 3rd year to 7th year, has to stay at least 730 days
the 4th year to the 8th year, has to stay at least 730 days

Is it true?

 

[scylla]

It's a rolling 5 years. So to make sure you can keep your PR status, at any point when you look back at the previous five years you must have spent two of those years in Canada.

So yes - your friend is 100% correct.

 

[Buletruck]

Based on your first example, you would be in violation of the RO. From the date you return in 2010, go back five years. You would only have 5 days in Canada in the previous 5 years.

 

[Bcboundboy]

2002-01-01, landed
2004-01-02, exit Canada back to home country (731 days)
2006-12-31, re-enter Canada (I can enter Canada after 3 years out of Canada, is it?)
2007-01-01, apply for new PR Card and stay in Canada

At this point, you must stay in Canada for the next 730 days, with no gaps, in order to maintain your PR status

2007-03-01 for example, PR Card arrives
2007-03-02, leave Canada and back to home country
2010-03-01, Can I enter Canada again as Permanent Resident?

You can enter, but you will likely be reported for failing to meet the residency obligation, and begin a process which culminates in you losing your PR status. At the time of attempting re-entry, you would need to have 730 days residency in the preceding 5 years, and you would have approximately 58 (less than 10% of requirement).

 

[murakami]

It's a rolling 5 years. So to make sure you can keep your PR status, at any point when you look back at the previous five years you must have spent two of those years in Canada.

So yes - your friend is 100% correct.

scylla,

Thanks for your comment. If base on the rolling 5 years, could you please suggest
1. when is the most safe date I have to back to Canada after 2007-03-02 the new PR Card comes and I leave Canada?
2. Or does it mean I have to stay in Canada after 2007-03-02? If so, how long time I need to stay in Canada after 2007-03-02?

It seems to me, if I leave Canada even for 1 more year after 2007-03-02, I would not meet the "730 days" rule since I've spent 3 years outside Canada from 2004-01-02 to 2006-12-31.
This is for example I left Canada 2007-03-02 and would like to back to Canada on 2008-03-02, then track back the last 5 years (from 2003-03-02), it is not possible I meet the obligation.

THANK YOU.

 

[murakami]

Based on your first example, you would be in violation of the RO. From the date you return in 2010, go back five years. You would only have 5 days in Canada in the previous 5 years.

Buletruck, thank you for your reply, but may I know why I would have only 5 days in Canada?

 

[murakami]

At this point, you must stay in Canada for the next 730 days, with no gaps, in order to maintain your PR status
You can enter, but you will likely be reported for failing to meet the residency obligation, and begin a process which culminates in you losing your PR status. At the time of attempting re-entry, you would need to have 730 days residency in the preceding 5 years, and you would have approximately 58 (less than 10% of requirement).

Bcboundboy,

Thank you for your clear explanation.
But I am not really understand why I have to "stay in Canada for the next 730 days, with no gaps, in order to maintain your PR status".

It seems to me, once I renewed my PR card, the expire date will be 5 years later. for example from 2007-01-01 to 2011-01-01.

So why I cannot leave Canada on 2007-03-02, and back to Canada on 2008-03-02, and leave and back...then accumulate 730 days before 2011-01-01?

Thanks in advance for your further reply.

 

[scylla]

Bcboundboy,

Thank you for your clear explanation.
But I am not really understand why I have to "stay in Canada for the next 730 days, with no gaps, in order to maintain your PR status".

It seems to me, once I renewed my PR card, the expire date will be 5 years later. for example from 2007-01-01 to 2011-01-01.

So why I cannot leave Canada on 2007-03-02, and back to Canada on 2008-03-02, and leave and back...then accumulate 730 days before 2011-01-01?

Thanks in advance for your further reply.

Looks like you're trying to circumvent the rules and aren't really committed to living in Canada. Maybe PR isn't for you?

Again, to be sure you can keep your PR status, you need to live in Canada for 2 out of every 5 rolling years. If you do anything other than that - you're putting your PR status in jeopardy.

 

[rrajendra]

Dear All,

I would like to have your comment under following circmstance, whether I can stay out of Canada and Keep my PR status.
For example:
2002-01-01, landed
2004-01-02, exit Canada back to home country (731 days)
2006-12-31, re-enter Canada (I can enter Canada after 3 years out of Canada, is it?)
2007-01-01, apply for new PR Card and stay in Canada
2007-03-01 for example, PR Card arrives
2007-03-02, leave Canada and back to home country
2010-03-01, Can I enter Canada again as Permanent Resident?

Another Question: During the time I apply my new PR card and before it arrives, I have to stay in Canada but not allow to leave, is it right?

Please share your opinions.
THANK YOU.

I think, you are mixing two different questions:
1)Can I enter Canada as a permanent resident?
Answer: If you have a valid PR card or equivalent, you can enter Canada, absolutely!
2)What happens after entering Canada?
Answer: If the immigration officer feels that you do not meet the physical presence criteria, I think, the CIC will get alerted and a process starts to determine whether you have met the physical presence requirements.

I do have some doubts about the rolling five year theory, let us consider a fictitious PR Mr.X

1)Mr.X lands on 2000-1-1
2)Mr.X gets his PR card on 2000-2-1 which is valid till 2005-1-31
3)Mr.X leaves Canada on 2002-1-1
4)Mr.X comes back to Canada on 2004-12-31, and allowed to enter he meets 2/5 RO
5)Mr.Gets his second PR on 2005-2-1 which is valid till 2010-1-31
6)Mr.X comes back to Canada on 2007-12-31!
Does Mr.X meet RO of 2/5 on a rolling basis? No!
Will he be allowed to enter Canada? Yes! He has a valid PR card!
Mr.X can stay in Canada till say 2010-1-1 without interruption and get another PR valid till say 2015!
Therefore, I am not sure whether the rolling 2/5 criteria is really valid

 

[murakami]

Looks like you're trying to circumvent the rules and aren't really committed to living in Canada. Maybe PR isn't for you?

Again, to be sure you can keep your PR status, you need to live in Canada for 2 out of every 5 rolling years. If you do anything other than that - you're putting your PR status in jeopardy.

scylla, thanks for your reply, but I am sorry about what you mentioned.
Life is not easy, everyone has different background and story and tough cases.
Why I am asking this is because I wish to stay in Canada but my partner doesn't intend to do so. Plus she is still a student. So it might take long time to change her mind.
So I only try to find a best way to keep the PR status and care her feeling and life outside Canada. But I am not circumventing the rules.

It seems like there are many users on this forum section have similar question, I don't assume they all are circumventing the rule and PR isn't for them.

Anyway, I appreciate your suggestions and replies.

 

[murakami]

I think, you are mixing two different questions:
1)Can I enter Canada as a permanent resident?
Answer: If you have a valid PR card or equivalent, you can enter Canada, absolutely!
2)What happens after entering Canada?
Answer: If the immigration officer feels that you do not meet the physical presence criteria, I think, the CIC will get alerted and a process starts to determine whether you have met the physical presence requirements.

I do have some doubts about the rolling five year theory, let us consider a fictitious PR Mr.X

1)Mr.X lands on 2000-1-1
2)Mr.X gets his PR card on 2000-2-1 which is valid till 2005-1-31
3)Mr.X leaves Canada on 2002-1-1
4)Mr.X comes back to Canada on 2004-12-31, and allowed to enter he meets 2/5 RO
5)Mr.Gets his second PR on 2005-2-1 which is valid till 2010-1-31
6)Mr.X comes back to Canada on 2007-12-31!
Does Mr.X meet RO of 2/5 on a rolling basis? No!
Will he be allowed to enter Canada? Yes! He has a valid PR card!
Mr.X can stay in Canada till say 2010-1-1 without interruption and get another PR valid till say 2015!
Therefore, I am not sure whether the rolling 2/5 criteria is really valid

rrajendra, thank your reply. Regarding the scenario you mentioned, the 6), it seems the answer is "YES, Mr. X can enter Canada", but may not a "permanent resident" status. That's why I am asking the question.
So that means, Mr. X will not able to stay in Canada till say 2010-1-1 as Mr.X may lost the PR status because he didn't meet the rolling 2/5 RO from the date he wants to re-enter Canada: 2007-12-31

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Bcboundboy]

Bcboundboy,

Thank you for your clear explanation.
But I am not really understand why I have to "stay in Canada for the next 730 days, with no gaps, in order to maintain your PR status".

It seems to me, once I renewed my PR card, the expire date will be 5 years later. for example from 2007-01-01 to 2011-01-01.

So why I cannot leave Canada on 2007-03-02, and back to Canada on 2008-03-02, and leave and back...then accumulate 730 days before 2011-01-01?

Thanks in advance for your further reply.

Because you must have 730 days in every five year period in order to maintain your PR status. Ignore the card, it's irrelevant. You can be a PR without a card (you don't need to get one), and you can have a card without being a PR (if you lose status while a card is valid). A PR card is helpful/indicative, but has no bearing on your PR status.

In your stated timeline, as of 2007-01-01 you have spent 3 years out of Canada. In order to acquire the necessary two years in five in Canada, you must spend the next two years in Canada, with no gap.

You don't need to accumulate 730 days by 2011-01-01, you need to do it by 2009-01-02 (5 years after you exited Canada).

You seem to be looking at it (wrongly) as discrete blocks, where you can get the days anywhere in the requirement. So, for example, two five year blocks, ten years in total, with 2 years in Canada, 6 years outside Canada, 2 years in Canada. That would not be allowed, because you would have a five year period in the middle without 730 days (indeed, with 0 days!) in Canada.

In addition, I concur with the above. Canada is very generous in granting permanent residency to people who only want to be less-than-half-time residents (2/5). If you are working so hard to reduce that even further, you don't really seem to want Canadian PR very much.

 

[Buletruck]

Buletruck, thank you for your reply, but may I know why I would have only 5 days in Canada?

Sorry, my mistake. Year/Month/Day, not Year /Day/Month. You would only have 3 months in Canada, not 5 days from 2005 till re-entry.

Therefore, I am not sure whether the rolling 2/5 criteria is really valid

Based on your example, the returning PR could be reported when returning and also if he re-applies when he arrives. the renewal requires you to account for the previous 5 years, which is why it is recommended that anyone who isn't in compliance and is allowed entry unreported does not contact IRCC until they do meet the requirements.

 

[murakami]

Because you must have 730 days in every five year period in order to maintain your PR status. Ignore the card, it's irrelevant. You can be a PR without a card (you don't need to get one), and you can have a card without being a PR (if you lose status while a card is valid). A PR card is helpful/indicative, but has no bearing on your PR status.

In your stated timeline, as of 2007-01-01 you have spent 3 years out of Canada. In order to acquire the necessary two years in five in Canada, you must spend the next two years in Canada, with no gap.

You don't need to accumulate 730 days by 2011-01-01, you need to do it by 2009-01-02 (5 years after you exited Canada).

You seem to be looking at it (wrongly) as discrete blocks, where you can get the days anywhere in the requirement. So, for example, two five year blocks, ten years in total, with 2 years in Canada, 6 years outside Canada, 2 years in Canada. That would not be allowed, because you would have a five year period in the middle without 730 days (indeed, with 0 days!) in Canada.

In addition, I concur with the above. Canada is very generous in granting permanent residency to people who only want to be less-than-half-time residents (2/5). If you are working so hard to reduce that even further, you don't really seem to want Canadian PR very much.

Bcboundboy,

Thanks again for your detailed explain. It's quite clear now.
And as I explained to Mr. scylla in above reply, I intend to live in Canada, just because some cases not deal well now and maybe in the next coming years, so I only try to find a best way to maintain my PR (will come ) and care about my partner. But i am not tring to circumvent the rule.