can i loose citizenship?

[screech339]

Whether you are a dual citizen or not, a Canadian citizenship can be revoked if you obtained the Canadian citizenship fraudulently or by misrepresentation in the first place. Statelessness is irrelevant and Canada is not obligated to honor a fraudster. The fact that a fraudulent individual becomes stateless is not Canada's problem.

Read this article: "news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/15/i-cant-be-stateless-born-in-canada-criminal-fighting-deportation-after-ottawa-decides-citizenship-not-valid/" ...copy and paste it into your address bar. I can't seem to post a link.

This dude doesn't have an Indian nationality. He is due to be deported, but India officially refused to accept him and doesn't even considers him as an Indian national. However, as far as Canada is concerned, he is not Canadian anymore.

You seem to forget in the article that he wasn't Canadian in the first place. One of his parents was a diplomat at the time of birth so he was considered to be Indian nationality by law. He was simply issued a canadian passport in error. Due to this error, India won't recognize his Indian nationality all over the Canadian passport.

Even the fed has even produced a letter from the Indian embassy that the parent was discharged from the embassy at a much later date, after the birth of their child. That means the parent was employed at the Indian embassy at time of birth.

The parents were trying to claim that they were working for a doctor so that their son can get around the diplomat nationality law.

 

[labeamer]

Yes, you are right in some sense... this dude's case is not an ideal example for my argument. But then still, his parents intentionally lied about their diplomatic status (i.e., misrepresented a material fact) and got him (their newborn) a Canadian citizenship. And then of course, once grown, he got himself a Canadian passport. Now that Canada caught up to his parents' lies by sheer accident (a due diligence of a prison officer, because this dude is a tug), Canada revoked him the citizenship and cancelled his passport.

Anyhow, I'm still confident that if someone obtains a Canadian citizenship fraudulently (or by misrepresentation) and if Canada can prove that the individual actually obtained it by fraud, Canada can automatically void the citizenship. In this case, dual nationality is irrelevant as the individual should not have gotten the Canadian citizenship in the first place. So the fact that such a person/fraud will be stateless is not Canada's problem and Canada did not break any law. Canada did not sign up to harbor a cheat when it became a signatory to reduce statelessness.

 

[screech339]

Yes, you are right in some sense... this dude's case is not an ideal example for my argument. But then still, his parents intentionally lied about their diplomatic status (i.e., misrepresented a material fact) and got him (their newborn) a Canadian citizenship. And then of course, once grown, he got himself a Canadian passport. Now that Canada caught up to his parents' lies by sheer accident (a due diligence of a prison officer, because this dude is a tug), Canada revoked him the citizenship and cancelled his passport.

Anyhow, I'm still confident that if someone obtains a Canadian citizenship fraudulently (or by misrepresentation) and if Canada can prove that the individual actually obtained it by fraud, Canada can automatically void the citizenship. In this case, dual nationality is irrelevant as the individual should not have gotten the Canadian citizenship in the first place. So the fact that such a person/fraud will be stateless is not Canada's problem and Canada did not break any law. Canada did not sign up to harbor a cheat when it became a signatory to reduce statelessness.

Look at this case.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/10/24/after-seven-years-in-jail-canadas-man-with-no-name-may-be-ready-to-reveal-true-identity-and-regain-freedom/

A case of Mr. Mvogo who arrived in Canada illegally using a false Passport. He insists he is Mr. Mvogo from Cameroon. Mr. Mvogo has kept lying about his identity over and over. They cannot confirm his identity as of yet. Canada does not have a maximum period for detaining deportees under the Immigration Act. Canada will keep him in detention until his identity is confirmed.

Canada cannot make him stateless but they can make Deepan a deportee and can detain him indefinitely until he get his Indian nationality citizenship back. Deepan can always call on the Indian Embassy to visit him and start paperwork to give his Indian citizenship back. He can explain to Indian authorities that he has acquired Canadian citizenship through fraud thus need to get his Indian citizenship reinstated under Indian Diplomatic laws, if he wishes to get out of detention. It's that simple.

 

[labeamer]

Canada cannot make him stateless but they can make Deepan a deportee and can detain him indefinitely until he get his Indian nationality citizenship back.

"Canada can make Deepan a deportee..." Isn't that my point? If he is made a deportee (and/or is in detention), isn't it that he is technically stripped of the Canadian citizenship and, in effect, became stateless? Like you said, he is declared a deportee (or in detention), with no citizenry right, and he can keep asking the Indian Embassy to issue him a travel document so that he can travel to India. But as far as canada is concerned, he is not Canadian anymore (was not even meant to be in the first place) and Canada doesn't care whether he obtains the Indian nationality or not... he will just continue to be in detention (or declared a deportee) until he gets his supposedly original nationality.

So, he is not yet 'deported' and he continues to live in canada does not necessarily mean he still has his canadian citizenship in tact.

I may be wrong.... but that's my opinion.

 

[screech339]

"Canada can make Deepan a deportee..." Isn't that my point? If he is made a deportee (and/or is in detention), isn't it that he is technically stripped of the Canadian citizenship and, in effect, became stateless? Like you said, he is declared a deportee (or in detention), with no citizenry right, and he can keep asking the Indian Embassy to issue him a travel document so that he can travel to India. But as far as canada is concerned, he is not Canadian anymore (was not even meant to be in the first place) and Canada doesn't care whether he obtains the Indian nationality or not... he will just continue to be in detention (or declared a deportee) until he gets his supposedly original nationality.

So, he is not yet 'deported' and he continues to live in canada does not necessarily mean he still has his canadian citizenship in tact.

I may be wrong.... but that's my opinion.

Being a deportee has no bearing on status of citizenship. Technically Deepan has Indian citizenship under diplomatic laws so he is technically not stateless. He is basically designated as Indian deportee. Indian authorities only need to recognize that and accept him as Indian citizen. If India doesn't want to accept evidence of proof that Deepan is Indian according to Diplomatic laws, that's India and Deepan's problem to work out among themselves. Not Canada.

Screech339

 

[labeamer]

Being a deportee has no bearing on status of citizenship. Technically Deepan has Indian citizenship under diplomatic laws so he is technically not stateless. He is basically designated as Indian deportee. Indian authorities only need to recognize that and accept him as Indian citizen. If India doesn't want to accept evidence of proof that Deepan is Indian according to Diplomatic laws, that's India and Deepan's problem to work out among themselves. Not Canada.

Screech339

Yes, you are right, in this case. But, to just reiterate my very initial point: Canada can revoke a citizenship that's obtained fraudulently or by a misrepresentation whether the individual, in effect, becomes stateless or not. So I'm just agreeing to disagree.

cheers.

 

[screech339]

Yes, you are right, in this case. But, to just reiterate my very initial point: Canada can revoke a citizenship that's obtained fraudulently or by a misrepresentation whether the individual, in effect, becomes stateless or not. So I'm just agreeing to disagree.

cheers.

Canada is not going to make the person stateless by revoking Canadian citizenship. If the person has gain it through fraud and has effectively renounced the other citizenship or automatically lost it, Canada can take the person in as a Canadian deportee after the person served time in jail for fraud and hold the person indefinitely until the person reacquire the original national citizenship. The onus would be put on the person to re-acquire the citizenship if that person want to be set free again back in their own country of origin.

Even though Canada does not allow stateless people, the onus would be on the person to acquire the previous citizenship. Until then that person is "Canadian" deportee until other native citizenship is reacquired.

I can see where you are coming from in your argument on statelessness but to get around it, Canada could also say, for example, that the person is a "put in nationality here" deportee that lost Canadian citizenship awaiting native citizenship to be granted back.

Perhaps the thought of being detain indefinitely as a deportee awaiting deportation if convicted of obtaining Canadian citizenship through fraud would deter them from obtaining it through fraud in the first place. Mind you this would apply to those who acquired canadian citizenship and lost the other citizenship automatically or officially renouncing the other citizenship before they got caught.

 

[polara69]

I heard from some people that you cannot stay outside the country for more than 6 months, is there any reason for this?

If this was the case half the world would be stateless..