Can I leave Canada while applying for PR?

[Lucy M]

Hello,
I'm British, living in Alberta and will soon be applying for PR (spousal route - inland application) and want to know the rules/regs and advice on leaving Canada to visit England for a couple of weeks. I've heard conflicting information.

Background info
I've already paid my full fee for the application ($1,040) as I needed to present the receipt, along with marriage certificate when entering Canada with my Canadian husband in March so I could get a Visitor Record. (I did this following advice of people on this forum, and it worked out well, so thank you so much for that.) I needed the Visitor Record so I could get health care while awaiting my PR. Alberta is the only province that allows health care to spouses under these circumstances. It was very important I got the health care as I am pregnant! (Baby due November. Our first. Made in Bali, at the tail end of our year long trip around the world/extended honeymoon!)
We haven't mailed the paperwork yet but will do so in the next couple of weeks. (Was told there's no time limit between paying the fee and submitting the paperwork.)
I want to visit England in July for two weeks. My husband won't be able to get the time off work so I'll be going alone to spend some quality time with family, including my very elderly grandparents with whom I'm very close. Life is short and I don't want to miss the opportunity to spend this time with them. We also left a number of things at my Mums in England when on our trip around the globe, including clothes and our wedding rings (we didn't want to take diamonds with us when backpacking around Asia!) I want to collect these things too.
If I take with me copies of my PR application, my marriage certificate, wedding photos even, basically a full folder of evidence with me, and my current Visitor Record - will I have any problems crossing the border back into Canada? I've heard some crazy scaremongering stories and been advised by others in my situation not to risk it, and have heard of people missing family funerals even for fear of not getting back in, which is ludicrous! Similarly, I've heard of people who have gone on holiday outside of Canada several times while applying for PR and had no problem. Then some people say, "it comes down to the border officer" which really doesn't seem right. So what is the deal? I'll be visibly pregnant by that time, and don't want to cause myself any unnecessary stress. My husband would be at the airport to meet me when I return to Canada.
Why is there so much uncertainty around this issue when immigration is otherwise so often set in stone?

 

[Jalex23]

Hello,
I'm British, living in Alberta and will soon be applying for PR (spousal route - inland application) and want to know the rules/regs and advice on leaving Canada to visit England for a couple of weeks. I've heard conflicting information.

Background info
I've already paid my full fee for the application ($1,040) as I needed to present the receipt, along with marriage certificate when entering Canada with my Canadian husband in March so I could get a Visitor Record. (I did this following advice of people on this forum, and it worked out well, so thank you so much for that.) I needed the Visitor Record so I could get health care while awaiting my PR. Alberta is the only province that allows health care to spouses under these circumstances. It was very important I got the health care as I am pregnant! (Baby due November. Our first. Made in Bali, at the tail end of our year long trip around the world/extended honeymoon!)
We haven't mailed the paperwork yet but will do so in the next couple of weeks. (Was told there's no time limit between paying the fee and submitting the paperwork.)
I want to visit England in July for two weeks. My husband won't be able to get the time off work so I'll be going alone to spend some quality time with family, including my very elderly grandparents with whom I'm very close. Life is short and I don't want to miss the opportunity to spend this time with them. We also left a number of things at my Mums in England when on our trip around the globe, including clothes and our wedding rings (we didn't want to take diamonds with us when backpacking around Asia!) I want to collect these things too.
If I take with me copies of my PR application, my marriage certificate, wedding photos even, basically a full folder of evidence with me, and my current Visitor Record - will I have any problems crossing the border back into Canada? I've heard some crazy scaremongering stories and been advised by others in my situation not to risk it, and have heard of people missing family funerals even for fear of not getting back in, which is ludicrous! Similarly, I've heard of people who have gone on holiday outside of Canada several times while applying for PR and had no problem. Then some people say, "it comes down to the border officer" which really doesn't seem right. So what is the deal? I'll be visibly pregnant by that time, and don't want to cause myself any unnecessary stress. My husband would be at the airport to meet me when I return to Canada.
Why is there so much uncertainty around this issue when immigration is otherwise so often set in stone?

There is no uncertainty whatsoever. PR applications and travelling are not related at all. So short answer, forget about the PR application completely and assess risks/decisions as if nothing had been submitted. Would you travel? Are you complying with rules? Are you a genuine visitor? Only you can answer those questions and can evaluate if it is a good decision to travel.

BTW "it comes down to the border officer" is absolutely correct and fair. You have to show on each entry your visit is bound to rules and regulations. For that a CBSA officer must always evaluate you.

 

[Rob_TO]

If you proceed with an inland application, then that means you are supposed to be residing in Canada and cohabiting with your spouse during the entire processing time (2+ years). If you for any reason you leave and are refused entry back into Canada, your inland app would simply be cancelled. Of course the chance of being refused may be low, but the risk is always there as re-entry is never guaranteed. It really does depend on the CBSA officer you happen to get.

In your case you might want to consider an outland application instead. Through London visa office you are looking at around 8-10 months to be completely done and have your PR in hand. And with zero risk of having your app cancelled due to traveling. You can stay in Canada on visitor status while waiting for London to process your outland PR app.

 

[Lucy M]

Thank you Jalex and Rob for your quick replies. It still seems fairly vague and uncertain.

Jalex, you say the PR application is unrelated... And I need to prove I am a "genuine visitor" at the border. This is confusing, as surely I need to be honest and tell them I am not a visitor at all but am living in Canada with my husband and applying for PR and have just been to England on holiday for 2 weeks? So I wouldn't be visiting Canada at all. This is also slightly confusing when you are given a Visitor Record while applying for PR, as thy only give you a Visitor Record if you are married and applying for PR. Maybe it's just the terminology that's confusing, but please could you clarify? Ought I be safer to lie and say I'm coming to Canada on holiday?? Or, if I have every conceivable piece of paperwork they could possibly need to see, is there any chance they'd refuse me entry? I'm still not clear on why they might refuse entry and what the rules actually are.

Rob, we had thought about doing the Outland application, although I was concerned that it didn't make sense as I would be living in Canada. I realise it apparently doesn't matter where you are living now. But I have already paid my fee as an inland application. Does that matter? It may confuse things at this stage. Also, I'm part of a few online forums of Brits applying for PR in Canada and a few got their PR recently less than 6 months after submitting the paperwork, as inland applications. Is the wait time an average, or supposed to be a minimum? I've heard if you're extremely thorough and they've no reason to doubt you, that it can actually be quite quick?

 

[Jalex23]

This is confusing, as surely I need to be honest and tell them I am not a visitor at all but am living in Canada with my husband and applying for PR and have just been to England on holiday for 2 weeks? So I wouldn't be visiting Canada at all. This is also slightly confusing when you are given a Visitor Record while applying for PR, as thy only give you a Visitor Record if you are married and applying for PR. Maybe it's just the terminology that's confusing, but please could you clarify?

You just explained yourself, you are a visitor because Canada needs you to be a visitor while waiting for PR. So you are a "genuine visitor" by definition.

Ought I be safer to lie and say I'm coming to Canada on holiday?? Or, if I have every conceivable piece of paperwork they could possibly need to see, is there any chance they'd refuse me entry? I'm still not clear on why they might refuse entry and what the rules actually are.

Never lie. As mentioned Canada requires you to be a visitor while waiting for decision for inland. I can't think of a better "reason" to come to Canada.

Yes, there is always a chance to be refused entry. Reasons are not being a genuine visitor, abusing the law, or doing illegal stuff.

(Let's play your "lie" example. You tell the CBSA officer you come on holidays, they will see you have an inland application in progress, then they ask you about that and catch you giving untruthful information. If the CBSA assess you are trying to get in not being honest then they can absolutely give you a hard time, and if more than one CBSA officer is convinced you are not trustworthy they can refuse entry. Of course this is an extreme example, but it can happen.)

Nonetheless, if you want to be solid safe, don't travel.

 

[Rob_TO]

Jalex, you say the PR application is unrelated... And I need to prove I am a "genuine visitor" at the border. This is confusing, as surely I need to be honest and tell them I am not a visitor at all but am living in Canada with my husband and applying for PR and have just been to England on holiday for 2 weeks? So I wouldn't be visiting Canada at all. This is also slightly confusing when you are given a Visitor Record while applying for PR, as thy only give you a Visitor Record if you are married and applying for PR. Maybe it's just the terminology that's confusing, but please could you clarify? Ought I be safer to lie and say I'm coming to Canada on holiday?? Or, if I have every conceivable piece of paperwork they could possibly need to see, is there any chance they'd refuse me entry? I'm still not clear on why they might refuse entry and what the rules actually are.

Until you get PR, you are just considered a temporary resident (depending if you have visitor, worker or student status). Although CBSA recognizes that people applying for PR are in Canada, so usually if you show your PR receipt to CBSA they shouldn't give you any problems in entering (though again, no guarantees).

Rob, we had thought about doing the Outland application, although I was concerned that it didn't make sense as I would be living in Canada. I realise it apparently doesn't matter where you are living now. But I have already paid my fee as an inland application. Does that matter? It may confuse things at this stage. Also, I'm part of a few online forums of Brits applying for PR in Canada and a few got their PR recently less than 6 months after submitting the paperwork, as inland applications. Is the wait time an average, or supposed to be a minimum? I've heard if you're extremely thorough and they've no reason to doubt you, that it can actually be quite quick?

No inland app is done in 6 months. You must have these confused with outland apps where the person simply stayed in Canada during processing, which can take as quick as 6 months.

Current times for inland are 17 months stage 1 + 10 months stage 2 = 27 months total. This is not an average, it's actual time and doesn't matter if your app is a strong or weak one. Majority of this time is spent having your app sit in a pile not even being looked at (today they are currently just processing apps submitted Oct 2013).

You can definitely stay in Canada during the entire time an outland app is in process. Outland only means it's processed at an outland visa office, where you happen to be residing does not matter. CIC even recommends people to apply outland instead wherever possible since it's much quicker for family class.

The fees are exactly the same. To do an outland app you simply use the outland application package instead of the inland one.
Inland: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/spouse.asp
Outland: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/fc.asp

 

[Lucy M]

Thanks again Jalex and Rob.

Rob, I absolutely wouldn't lie at a border crossing. I'm a terrible liar and simply can't and wouldn't do it. I'm all for 100% honesty and transparency (as you may be able to tell from my unnecessarily lengthy posts -sorry!) I just wanted to confirm you were not suggesting I should claim to be visiting. But I now understand what you were saying.
...So, being a "genuine visitor" really means not intending to work I presume. (Which I'm quite happy not to be able to do whilst pregnant to be honest, and my husband makes plenty enough for both of us, plus we have savings, all of which I can bring evidence of to the border.) I've also worked legally in Canada for two years prior to our travels on an IEC visa, as a producer for Shaw, which shows I'm fully aware that legal documents are required to work in Canada. And I left Canada before my second year IEC expired. All of this they will see in my passport. And seeing as I've never done anything illegal in my life I'm sure they'd have no reason to refuse me back in. Unless they think I'm abusing the health care system by making the most of the fact that Alberta will allow me health care while I await PR and they'll see I'm pregnant. Of course I'm not "abusing" the system, I just did my research and found out what I was entitled to where and my husband and I decided we didn't want to wait until after I had PR at our age, and with the wait times so chose to return to Alberta. And it's not like i came to Canada just for free health care as i can get that in the UK. Do you think my being pregnant at the border could create any potential issues? If not, then I'm sure I'd be fine as I think that's covered every possible reason they might refuse entry? Are there any other potential reasons? Of course I want to be solid safe, but similarly we only live once and I'd be devastated to regret not spending this time with my elderly grandparents. If there isn't really a risked being refused, then it's a very big moral and emotional decision to have to make for potentially no reason.

Thanks Rob for the clarification on wait times, and for the links. We'll likely apply Outland then. I realise this means I cannot apply to work while awaiting PR (an initiative I understand came in recently, and you can send an application with your PR application but that's only if you apply inland) but that won't be an issue as I don't intend to work while pregnant or with a young baby anyway. With an Outland application, are there different rules about leaving Canada to visit the UK? Is it more or less lenient, or is it the same given that the re entry is separate from the PR application?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks Rob for the clarification on wait times, and for the links. We'll likely apply Outland then. I realise this means I cannot apply to work while awaiting PR (an initiative I understand came in recently, and you can send an application with your PR application but that's only if you apply inland) but that won't be an issue as I don't intend to work while pregnant or with a young baby anyway. With an Outland application, are there different rules about leaving Canada to visit the UK? Is it more or less lenient, or is it the same given that the re entry is separate from the PR application?

Outland is definitely the way to go for you since OWP is not important. Follow up on the London visa office thread here.

The rules around leaving Canada are generally the same, it's when you try to re-enter Canada that you see a potential difference.
Inland - If you are denied re-entry, your app in cancelled and you need to start again from scratch
Outland - If you are denied re-entry, your app continues on as normal since it doesn't matter where you're living

With an outland app, upon re-entering Canada make sure you have proof of the PR app in progress (like payment receipt, sponsor approval, etc). Just tell CBSA you have the PR app in progress, and are waiting out the process in Canada as a visitor. Countless people have done this with no problem and CBSA seems to be pretty easy on people with PR apps in progress.

 

[truesmile]

Use the phrase "living in Canada" at the border as many times as you have here and you most certainly WILL be denied entry into Canada.

 

[taffy7]

Welcome Lucy. You are a beautiful writer,Im not that good so i will lay it out plain and simple.
Do not apply inland . If you apply inland and you need to go home again for any reason you are taking a risk every time you come into Canada. Even with my husband applying outland from the U.K.each time he visits he brings the minimum of stuff. Nothing to show that he intends to live here without his PR.

Change your application to outland if you are one of the lucky ones and your application gets processed totally in Mississauga you could have your papers in less than 4 months. With your outland application there is no risk of it being cancelled if forever reason you get denied at the boarder. You have a very slim chance of this happening, but why take the chance.

Once you are back in Canada you can renew your visitors status on line and they may give you a 1 year record to cover the application.

When you come back in don't give the cbsa any more information than they are asking you. You are coming o Canada to visit your husband while your application is being processed thats all.You are best to bring your goods at a later date when you receive your PR.

 

[Bakedbeans]

Hi Lucy,

I have just read your post with interest as I am in a very similar position as yourself. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in your situation. I am currently here on a renewed visitors visa with my husband in Calgary (who is a dual Canadian/British Citizen) and applied for PR for myself through spousal sponsorship last July. We applied through the Inland route, as like you I made an assumption and thought it didn't make sense as I would be living in Canada and not England. I didn't realise that it would be so difficult to return to the Canada after a genuine reason for leaving i.e. to attend my husband brothers wedding in July. I really don't know what to do as I desperately want to attend the wedding and also visit my friends and family who I haven't seen in over 18 months.

Has anyone got any ideas what to do as I am already 9 months into waiting for my Inland PR application? I have read about applying for a new visitors record before I intend to leave but this seems ridiculous as my current visitors record is valid until September. What happens if you are refused entry, does that mean it will become difficult to return to Canada and be with my husband at a later date if the PR application is cancelled?

 

[SchnookoLoly]

Lucy - you can apply outland no problem. It's one f the first questions linked in the FAQ in my signature, which is geared towards British applicants. I suggest you have a read of it. There is also a spreadsheet linked that gives you an idea of processing times - currently averaging 8ish months via London, faster if your application stays in Canada (that is, still outland, but processed within Canada - similar to how many US applications are processed in Ottawa). Since you are not fussed about a work permit, DEFINITELY apply outland.

In addition, there's a section in the main Spousal Sponsorship article about Dual Intent - this will be useful for you to read concerning your re-entry into Canada.

Bakedbeans - Same applies to you. No re-entry ino Canada is guaranteed. You can apply to renew your visitor visa online - this is strongly suggested. Ddi you apply for a work permit? One option is to withdraw your inland application and re-apply outland... though doing that now means outland might be only marginally faster, thogh as I said, if your application stays within Canada for processing, then it might be processed quite a bit faster. Plus applying outland makes travel way easier.

 

[Bakedbeans]

I was checking Outland and Inland PR application processing times and they are much longer than is suggested in this thread. The link is here cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp. The link outlines 29 months for an outland application through the London office and 27 months for an inland application.

SchnookoLoly do you have a link for the shorter processing times you suggest?

Also another question I have for anyone who can answer: is a visitor record the same as a temporary resident visa?

 

[Rob_TO]

I was checking Outland and Inland PR application processing times and they are much longer than is suggested in this thread. The link is here cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp. The link outlines 29 months for an outland application through the London office and 27 months for an inland application.

The times posted for London are only relevant for applicants from Pakistan. For anyone else going through London office that posted info is completely irrelevant and you need to look at the London thread to see people's actual times.

 

[SchnookoLoly]

1, look at the spreadsheet linked in my signature, it shows average processing times through London since 2010. Gives a pretty clear idea of realistic processing time.

2, on the spreadsheet cover page in a big red box is an explanation of the 29 month thing.

3, the faq linked in my signature also explains the 29 month thing.