Can I Fly to Canada with green card and non-Canadian passport when my PR card has expired?

[armoured]

This is precisely right. However, the airlines base their decisions on who to board on govt regulations. So far unable to determine what these regulations are and which is the body that governs them.

I think this is ignoring both the actual regs, and the existence of the board/no-board system that @dpenabill refers to.

1) It is quite clear that Canadian PRs require a valid PR card or a PRTD to board a flight to Canada - in the sense that if anyone or any system prior to boarding identifies the individual as a Canadian PR, that person will rightfully be denied the right to board.

2) Passenger manifests - names, DOB, passport and other document info are certainly shared with national authorities of destination countries. Canada's system certainly allows - at minimum - individuals to be identified, if they are in the system, based on DOB and full name, other information is supporting. Almost all PRs are in those systems (exceptions may basically be ones who landed ages ago, and errors). Anyone who has recently applied for citizenship and is travelling to Canada to take the oath would be in those systems.*

3) Basing your travel plans on the system NOT identifying you would be essentially betting on an error, or some implausible gap, or the system not being used that day, or other ... unusual events. Sure, maybe it would happen.

4) But far more logical would be to assume you will be identified, and either plan to cross at a land border, or at least have a backup plan to enable you to get to a land border if denied boarding.

Let us know what happens. I am genuinely interested so hope you'll try it, but would be concerned about missing your oath ceremony.

*To return to a point I made earlier: Canada recently decided to drop the ETA requirement for US Permanent Residents travelling to Canada. I am QUITE confident that this requirement was not dropped without consideration of whether it would open up new gaps - and one of those would be careful consideration of whether existing systems to advice Canadian authorities would capture cases of people who should not be allowed to board, i.e. that they could confidently identify individuals through the board/no-board pre-clearance system based on passenger manifests. (Although primary concerns were probably security and the like)

 

[Wacky1.nash]

You know I have a story about this.

So sometime around 12 (?) years ago when my American citizen husband was a Canadian PR but not yet a Canadian citizen, we were flying back home to Canada from Korea. He produces his US passport at check-in in Incheon and they tell him they are going to deny him boarding. But it's not because they know he's a PR, but rather specifically because he is an American and his travel ends in Canada with no onward journey to the US, and they have no evidence that he is authorized to live in Canada. They keep insisting that his journey cannot end in Canada if he is only traveling on a US passport and we must produce evidence of an onward journey to the US. No problem, we think, just show them the PR card. But then "someone" cannot find his PR card. Then he finally finds it after taking his backpack apart and shows them he is a permanent resident of Canada. But they misread the expiry date on the PR card and tell him the PR card is expired so they won't let him board. After more back and forth and some checks on their computer, they finally agree that his PR card is valid and allow him to board. It was just a little bit stressful. And of course I have no idea what they were or weren't able to see on their computers or whether they contacted CBSA or not.

I think this was the only time he had to show his physical PR card to get on a plane and we travel quite a bit.

This makes complete sense to me.

I have another anecdote from reddit of a Canadian PR/ US citizen flying back from the states to their home in Canada. So everytime this person flew, they used their US passport and didn't bother showing the Canadian PR card at check-in. Always waived through no problem. This one time though they used the United check-in machine. The machine asked for their residential address and when that was in Canada, asked if they were a Canadian PR. They answered truthfully and was then asked to scanned the PR card. Not sure what would have happened if they said they were not a PR. Might have asked them to go to check-in counter where they may have asked them where is their return ticket to US if they are not a PR.

So with me, I am a US LPR and reside in US. I would have a return ticket to US, and so I guess (hope) this removes this problem for me.....

 

[armoured]

I have another anecdote from reddit of a Canadian PR/ US citizen flying back from the states to their home in Canada. So everytime this person flew, they used their US passport and didn't bother showing the Canadian PR card at check-in. Always waived through no problem. This one time though they used the United check-in machine. The machine asked for their residential address and when that was in Canada, asked if they were a Canadian PR.

That is a different situation: dual US-Canadian citizens can travel on either passport,a nd US passport holder/Cdn PRs can likewise travel on that passport (with no PR card). This is a known thing.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/eta/facts.html#
"American-Canadians can travel with a valid Canadian or U.S. passport."

Now, it's also true that sometimes the airlines can screw up, particularly if they attempt to do more strict requirements. (From following things here on the board for a while, I've noticed the Cdn government's language on this has started to be more explicit, as above, instead of not being clear about it.

But the situation for a US passport holder who is also a Canadian citizen is different than for a US LPR - the US passport holder is specifically exempted from the requirement to hold a PR card. The US LPR is not.

 

[Ponga]

This makes complete sense to me.

I have another anecdote from reddit of a Canadian PR/ US citizen flying back from the states to their home in Canada. So everytime this person flew, they used their US passport and didn't bother showing the Canadian PR card at check-in. Always waived through no problem. This one time though they used the United check-in machine. The machine asked for their residential address and when that was in Canada, asked if they were a Canadian PR. They answered truthfully and was then asked to scanned the PR card. Not sure what would have happened if they said they were not a PR. Might have asked them to go to check-in counter where they may have asked them where is their return ticket to US if they are not a PR.

So with me, I am a US LPR and reside in US. I would have a return ticket to US, and so I guess (hope) this removes this problem for me.....

This goes against the bilateral agreement between the U.S. and Canada that airlines use, at least according to Air Canada's customer support (from previous travel).

A valid U.S. passport is a valid travel document. Unless the destination country requires that a U.S. citizen requires a visa, said passport should satisfy the requirement, IMHO. This is likely why the language from IRCC is passive in that, "without a vaild PR card the traveller may not be able to board their flight" (or similar). If it was a firm rule for all PR's, that language would be different.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

I haven't read everyone's input on this thread yet, and there seems to be a really good, in-depth discussion going on. I skimmed and have some thoughts on some of the points and anecdotes raised, but for now, I just want to give an update of what I learned calling some airlines and CBSA.

1. Air Canada on two separate calls (talking to two separate agents) unequivocally confirmed to me that me being a PR does NOT matter. They will board me so long as I can produce a valid passport (whatever country, doesn't matter) and a valid US LPR (green-card).

2. Porter Air was difficult. Called twice. The first agent seemed to have no idea what the requirements are, and insisted I would be denied boarding because I am an Indian citizen (kept going back to that). The second told me they cannot advise on the documents required to board the plane and that I should check with CBSA (seems silly to me, because at the airport the airline does have to make a decision on who to board based on documents provided). When pushed they said whatever the CBSA entry requirements are, the same would apply for boarding, which of-course doesn't help me much.

3. CBSA claimed they could not comment on the documents required to board, that would depend on the airline, and I should check with them. I called twice, one told me I would be granted entry based on my green-card and Indian passport DESPITE being a Canadian PR (which I don't believe is right), the second said CBSA would check if my Canadian PR is valid at the point of entry, and I can present expired PR card / COPR.

Not sure if this post of mine was missed...

 

[Ponga]

Not sure if this post of mine was missed...

3. Makes sense since CBSA is merely the `doorman/bouncer' that determines if the traveler `gets in' to Canada. The airline...is just the `driver' that delivers them to a Canadian airport. They have not yet officially entered the country.

If you have about a week to kill, have a look through IATA's website (IATA.org) and see if YOU can find anything that helps. If it truly is a requirement to have a valid PR card to fly to (NOT to simply ENTER) Canada, it should matter not which airline you fly, but...I suspect there is nothing concrete and, sadly, may in fact come down to an uninformed, or otherwise difficult, airline employee that `thinks' they know what to do when you are ready to catch your flight back to Canada.

 

[dpenabill]

REMINDER: There are multiple decision points involved when boarding an international flight destined for Canada. The two most relevant ones here are:

-- decision to issue a boarding pass​

-- decision to allow the traveler to board the plane​

Criteria for these decisions overlap but they are nonetheless separate decisions. Obviously, the traveler needs to be issued a boarding pass (or equivalent) before there is a decision to allow the traveler to board the plane (allowing for some exceptions and that in some situations this can be done concurrently).

Decision to issue a boarding pass:

With exceptions, the decision to issue a boarding pass depends on getting a "Board" response in the CBSA system, based on API data, including information from the required document, entered into the system. This is an automated decision. Not a decision made by the airline, nor by a Canadian official. But by the machine, so to say, an automated electronic decision.

See CBSA "Guide for Transporters" for more detailed information about exceptions, link posted below.

That said, the airline still has responsibility over and above this to screen travelers, including to assure their status authorizing entry into Canada. So, being issued a boarding pass does not guarantee the traveler will be allowed to actually board the flight. There are many reasons why boarding might be denied. Here too there is a lot of relevant information in the CBSA "Guide for Transporters" linked below.

The airlines have other criteria they can and typically will apply before actually issuing the boarding pass. Some so obvious it is taken for granted, like payment and verification of traveler identification, and verification the traveler has the proper travel document(s).

The latter, valid travel documents, usually means a valid passport. In some circumstances, for some travelers, the passport itself is sufficient (visa-exempt passport for individual who has eTA for example; U.S. or Canadian passport for another). For others, additional documents are necessary (for most PRs, a valid passport PLUS a valid PR card or PR TD is necessary, noting that the PR card is NOT a travel document; likewise for Canadian citizen without a Canadian passport, another country passport is insufficient, unless a U.S. passport, and they need to present a special Canadian TD for citizens).

In addition to the FAQ referenced and linked in previous posts, https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1053 which reflects the change just last year, as of April 26, 2022, adding U.S. PRs to the list of those who can board flights to Canada, a more complete PDI with relevant information (plus some) is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio.../visit-canada/entry-requirements-country.html

The CBSA guide for transporters is here: https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trans/guide-eng.html

It is lengthy, complex, and does not completely answer the question posed here.

My impression is that a Canadian PR with a valid passport and a valid U.S. Green Card should have no problem boarding a flight to Canada FROM the U.S. even if they do not have a currently valid PR card. Perhaps carry a copy of FAQ and have urls to both the FAQ and the PDI about entry requirements. Whether the other documents showing U.S. PR status, as listed in the FAQ, will work as well, I am less confident but they should.

I would be far more cautious about flying from other countries to Canada. Should work but . . . again, the real world is rife with wrinkles.

I haven't read everyone's input on this thread yet, and there seems to be a really good, in-depth discussion going on. I skimmed and have some thoughts on some of the points and anecdotes raised, but for now, I just want to give an update of what I learned calling some airlines and CBSA.

1. Air Canada on two separate calls (talking to two separate agents) unequivocally confirmed to me that me being a PR does NOT matter. They will board me so long as I can produce a valid passport (whatever country, doesn't matter) and a valid US LPR (green-card).

2. Porter Air was difficult. Called twice. The first agent seemed to have no idea what the requirements are, and insisted I would be denied boarding because I am an Indian citizen (kept going back to that). The second told me they cannot advise on the documents required to board the plane and that I should check with CBSA (seems silly to me, because at the airport the airline does have to make a decision on who to board based on documents provided). When pushed they said whatever the CBSA entry requirements are, the same would apply for boarding, which of-course doesn't help me much.

3. CBSA claimed they could not comment on the documents required to board, that would depend on the airline, and I should check with them. I called twice, one told me I would be granted entry based on my green-card and Indian passport DESPITE being a Canadian PR (which I don't believe is right), the second said CBSA would check if my Canadian PR is valid at the point of entry, and I can present expired PR card / COPR.

 

[canuck78]

I haven't read everyone's input on this thread yet, and there seems to be a really good, in-depth discussion going on. I skimmed and have some thoughts on some of the points and anecdotes raised, but for now, I just want to give an update of what I learned calling some airlines and CBSA.

1. Air Canada on two separate calls (talking to two separate agents) unequivocally confirmed to me that me being a PR does NOT matter. They will board me so long as I can produce a valid passport (whatever country, doesn't matter) and a valid US LPR (green-card).

2. Porter Air was difficult. Called twice. The first agent seemed to have no idea what the requirements are, and insisted I would be denied boarding because I am an Indian citizen (kept going back to that). The second told me they cannot advise on the documents required to board the plane and that I should check with CBSA (seems silly to me, because at the airport the airline does have to make a decision on who to board based on documents provided). When pushed they said whatever the CBSA entry requirements are, the same would apply for boarding, which of-course doesn't help me much.

3. CBSA claimed they could not comment on the documents required to board, that would depend on the airline, and I should check with them. I called twice, one told me I would be granted entry based on my green-card and Indian passport DESPITE being a Canadian PR (which I don't believe is right), the second said CBSA would check if my Canadian PR is valid at the point of entry, and I can present expired PR card / COPR.

Give that CBSA wasn’t confirmed that you’d be able to travel by air with a valid PR it’s really impossible to say whether you’ll be able to board or not. As I recommended in my initial post you should arrive with plenty of time in case the airline doesn’t know the requirements and needs to to determine whether they are willing to let you board even if you have been selected as a passenger who can board. It’s important to remember that having US citizenship is not the same as having permanent status in the US so nobody can assume both with be treated the same. US citizens have been able to travel by air on their US passport for a long time but many still run into issue at the airport. The safest way to enter Canada would be at a land border or by renewing your PR card.