can I change the title during the CEC application

[Jingjunhao]

Hi guys,

I was chemistry Post-doctoral fellow at university of Montreal and applied for PR under CEC stream (FN was issused Apr.25 2014) using the title post-doctor and NOC 4011. I currently live in USA for a while.

The GCMS said the duties described are too generic and do not provide more details to confirm the work experience in this NOC. The reviewer said the duties is slightly vague, but do appear to match some of the duties under NOC 4011, he also note that those duties are correspond with those found under 4012.

In this case, I supplied one new version letter in which much more details are involved; the second GCMS seems no much advance in my case.

I realized that some of postdoctoral fellows were refused because of the inconsistency between duties and used NOC.

My questions are :

1) is it possible to change NOC number during this time?
2) Once rejected, is it possible to re-apply for so-called EE since I don;t have any kind of offers in canada so far?
3) how to appeal and does it work well?

Thanks

 

[nov1061]

Hi guys,

I was chemistry Post-doctoral fellow at university of Montreal and applied for PR under CEC stream (FN was issused Apr.25 2014) using the title post-doctor and NOC 4011. I currently live in USA for a while.

The GCMS said the duties described are too generic and do not provide more details to confirm the work experience in this NOC. The reviewer said the duties is slightly vague, but do appear to match some of the duties under NOC 4011, he also note that those duties are correspond with those found under 4012.

In this case, I supplied one new version letter in which much more details are involved; the second GCMS seems no much advance in my case.

I realized that some of postdoctoral fellows were refused because of the inconsistency between duties and used NOC.

My questions are :

1) is it possible to change NOC number during this time?
2) Once rejected, is it possible to re-apply for so-called EE since I don;t have any kind of offers in canada so far?
3) how to appeal and does it work well?

Thanks

Hi,
1) No
2) Yes, you can apply under EE. You will not get the extra 600 points if not PNP or LMIA though.
3) If refused, you can successfully appeal only if you can proof the VO made a mistake.

 

[Jingjunhao]

Hi,
1) No
2) Yes, you can apply under EE. You will not get the extra 600 points if not PNP or LMIA though.
3) If refused, you can successfully appeal only if you can proof the VO made a mistake.

It seems my immigration will die.
Thanks for your reply.

JJ

 

[nov1061]

It seems my immigration will die.
Thanks for your reply.

JJ

Not necessarily. Hopefully the VO will make a reasonable decision in your favor, because the NOC mentioned by him is not only skilled one but also the same category '0'.

 

[Jingjunhao]

Not necessarily. Hopefully the VO will make a reasonable decision in your favor, because the NOC mentioned by him is not only skilled one but also the same category '0'.

I hope so, but frankly I am somewhat pessimistic about my case.
It seems the requirement of 4011 and 4012 are different

 

[nov1061]

I hope so, but frankly I am somewhat pessimistic about my case.
It seems the requirement of 4011 and 4012 are different

Correct, but never loose your hope. Wish you good luck.

 

[jes_ON]

1) is it possible to change NOC number during this time?
I don't think you can "change" it per se, but it could be useful to write a letter of explanation of why you chose that NOC. You wouldn't be the first person to choose it, and the information on what post-docs SHOULD choose (if they are doing research and not teaching) is really well hidden. BTW, it should probably be 2112 -
http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/SearchKeywordResult.aspx?val11=chemistry&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

(4012 is for students and you are not that anymore).

2) Once rejected, is it possible to re-apply for so-called EE since I don;t have any kind of offers in canada so far?
You don't even have to wait for a refusal, you can re-apply right now under EE.

3) how to appeal and does it work well?
An appeal is a legal process - a lawyer has to file the appeal and it takes a long time and $$$ and seldom work. A request for reconsideration can be done by you, by email, but this only works if the VO made an error. Usually, when an applicant selects the "wrong" NOC code, it's not considered an error on the part of the VO.

So many post-docs have used NOC 4011 and been refused, though (because the duties don't match what most post-docs do), I'd almost be curious what a judge would say about an appeal. Usually they side with CIC, and the instructions do say to chose the NOC on the basis of job duties and responsibilities. But for CIC to be so inflexible about such a problematic NOC - that applicants are not responsible for - in my opinion, seems to ignore the "intent" of the program rules. Just an opinion.

 

[Jingjunhao]

I really dont; think I am competitive enough for current EE system because I have left canada and no offer inside canada currently.
It seems only thing I can do is to wait. That;s too bad.

 

[pfse]

NOC 4011 is mostly about teaching and lecturing. If you don't teach, than you meet only one of 9 duties listed for 4011. If you gave some lecturers at group meetings, mentored or helped to students and your professor is ready to give you ref. letter mentioned these duties than it would be very helpful.

 

[Jingjunhao]

NOC 4011 is mostly about teaching and lecturing. If you don't teach, than you meet only one of 9 duties listed for 4011. If you gave some lecturers at group meetings, mentored or helped to students and your professor is ready to give you ref. letter mentioned these duties than it would be very helpful.

Here are my reference letter from my prof., so please give more comments:


Dr. Hao has been working in our research group at the Department of Chemistry, Université de Montréal full time (40 hours per week, 48 weeks per year) since February of 2012. He received a postdoctoral stipend of $32 000 p/a for the first year of his contract and $36 000 p/a for the second year. His duties over the past two years have included conducting the advanced research projects I had assigned to him, involving: synthesis of air-sensitive organic and organometallic compounds; purification of said compounds and unexpected by-products; identification of said compounds using spectroscopic analysis such as Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, Infrared Spectroscopy, Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry; Ultraviolet-Visible Spectroscopy; Cyclic Voltammetry measurements; and X-ray crystallography. In addition, he provided a leadership role to my students, advising and supervising undergraduate and graduate researchers working in our laboratory, giving concrete technical tips on the synthesis of various compounds and analyzing their products as above, and in general helping them advance their studies.

Dr. Hao has proven to be a diligent, motivated and driven scientist. He has obtained many important results from his project and has presented these results at three scientific conferences in Canada, as follows: oral presentation at the 45th Inorganic Discussion Weekend, University of Ottawa, Nov. 2-4, 2012; : oral presentation at the 96th Canadian Chemistry Conference and Exhibition, Quebec city, May 26-30, 2013; oral and poster presentations at the 46th Inorganic Discussion Weekend, York University, Toronto, Nov. 8-10, 2013. I have attended these presentations and can testify that he is able to communicate very effectively with his peers and fellow researchers.

Over the past 6 months, Dr. Hao has been working with me on the preparation of scientific reports describing his project results. His first report has passed the peer review process with flying colours and has been published in one of the premier chemistry journals in our field of study (Angewandte Chemie, International Edition). A second report is nearly completed and will be submitted for publication shortly, while 5-6 others are under preparation. Assuming all these reports get published, this will have been a very productive effort for Dr. Hao and my research group.

I wish to state that Dr. Hao’s work and service have been very satisfactory and I would recommend him without any reservation to any industrial or academic laboratory for future employment (NOC 4011). I believe he would bring many valuable skills and assets to any scientific/technological project he undertakes.