BYE BYE JASON KENNEY

[CanuckForEver]

1. The Liberals reduced the pass mark for the Independent Class from 75 down to 67 points significantly increasing the PR inventory and thus the Citizenship applicant pool. There was no corresponding increase in CIC resource a situation made worse by recent budgetary cuts by the current government.

2. The Conservatives got their majority in the last election by obliterating the Liberals in Ontario primarily in 'ethnic' ridings - so the immigrants got them the power they needed to do what they are doing. The previous Immigration Minister was credited with getting them to the finish line in a position they could never have dreamed of given the polls.

3. In politics leaders will often remove a potential challenger by assigning them a troublesome task - the new portfolio is a slippery banana if I ever saw one!

Its not always what it looks like is the message here!

I think you're spinning this whole plight into your logic. The 90% of the RQs generated (I dare say even 100%) are past 2008. You're saying liberals are responsible for that? Liberals addressed a lot of concerns for Quebec, they were less controlling and more open. I wish Kenney and Harper had the same mindset they had in 2011 (the one you quoted above) and started listening to immigrants again. I have a strong feeling that they would wear that mask sometimes late 2014 or early 2015 and come back to Brampton, Toronto, Vancouver ethnic communities again but that would in no way offset the kind of irreparable damages they have already done to this citizenship process pushing in unreasonable wait times, unaccountability in processing and gross negligence in keeping applicants informed. I also don't think when they come for votes on 2014/2015 they're going to genuinely enforce fairness in the citizenship process to resolve our problem of being stranded in a limbo.

 

[OKK]

Liberals all the way..........Conservative Party been completely inhuman towards new immigrants.....to gain our own right (citizenship) after paying taxes and after working our socks off we are treated like a 3rd class citizens by this government...me and my entire family will never vote for these fools ever again..Liberals all the way and for those who believe in racist, hypocrite and selfish Conservative party good luck to you all.

 

[Msafiri]

I think you're spinning this whole plight into your logic. The 90% of the RQs generated (I dare say even 100%) are past 2008. You're saying liberals are responsible for that? Liberals addressed a lot of concerns for Quebec, they were less controlling and more open. I wish Kenney and Harper had the same mindset they had in 2011 (the one you quoted above) and started listening to immigrants again. I have a strong feeling that they would wear that mask sometimes late 2014 or early 2015 and come back to Brampton, Toronto, Vancouver ethnic communities again but that would in no way offset the kind of irreparable damages they have already done to this citizenship process pushing in unreasonable wait times, unaccountability in processing and gross negligence in keeping applicants informed. I also don't think when they come for votes on 2014/2015 they're going to genuinely enforce fairness in the citizenship process to resolve our problem of being stranded in a limbo.

I'm presenting the facts as they are - it could be useful if you do the same instead of going on about logic and plight. Maybe you can back up the 90% of RQs?

If you re-read my post again I state the Liberals set in place the trigger for an increased PR inventory by lowering the pass mark - fact. The successive Tory governments whether a minority or majority never changed the pass mark so the inventory kept growing - fact. Once the Tory majority came in the FSW was put on hold to deal with this inventory (in lieu of more resource) - fact. The increased PR inventory by default leads to an increased citizenship applicant pool - fact (especially given that you can apply with basic residency). There hasn't been an increasing match in resource to process this citizenship pool - fact. The Tories got their majority last time by winning Ontario big. These wins were given to them by ethnic voters - if this 'group' were to vote the same way in 2015 then the Tories get back in majority power assuming they carry their traditional strongholds.

If I follow you then maybe all the posters who are in the 'ethnic' demographic can ask those citizens of the same background that voted for the Tories last time round and gave them the majority to do as they pleased including CIC under the helm of JK spiking up RQs in 2012 (OB 407) not to do so this time because they are holding them back from getting their citizenship in a fast time!

What political mileage is there for any Tory politician at this time to drum up the 'lets get PRs their citizenship' faster unless they are in a marginal seat close to the election date and this appears to be a major voter issue for the electors. Most citizens are quite happy with the 'lets make them wait while we check them out to make sure there is no fraud etc' approach presented by the government. I think we all agree that the process can achieve both integrity (for all but especially the citizen vote) and acceptable process times for the increasingly frustrated PRs. For this to happen:

1. The application fees must rise substantially to employ more resource as frankly its way too low - (many will easily spend 200 bucks on a night out/ at the mall).

2. CIC must deal with the test issue as the process holding step. Easiest way is to make the test a pre-application step whilst ensuring integrity/ candidate identity. This cuts the inventory by making sure only those passing apply...why have thousands in line to wait for a judge hearing due to failed tests? CIC effectively admit this with the new re-test policy.

3. Biometrics/ fingerprints to speed up security/ background/ criminal/ immigration checks.

4. Streamline/improve the 'check' process - why does it take 3 days to process urgent PR Card renewals? Are checks not carried out for this to make sure the applicant isn't a danger to the public?

5. Parliament needs to make the residence requirement a physical residence period. At the same time they should impose misrepresentation penalties/ consequences for make false statements in the citizenship application. Its unreal that you could get jail time for not paying a transit fine but get off free for lying on the application.

6. The residence period needs to be increased subject to a service standard processing time with ombudsman oversight. CIC are de-facto making the qualifying period 5 years as things stand in line with other major G8 countries.

7. Requiring tax records or access via providing SIN to verify employment/ self employment. By the way unemployed/ self employed citizenship applicants face additional scrutiny in many countries so its not special to Canada as some RQd applicants seem to imply.

8. Exit records to support declared residence - this can be easily done for airport exits by collecting PR Card data at check-in. However there is a cost basis and CIC appear to be going the data sharing route where other country records e.g. US entries could count as Canada exits.

Bottom line is that the rot set in with the Liberals and continues with the Tories..who is to blame? I think most people don't care they just want some one to fix it!!

 

[OKK]

Liberals all the way

 

[CanuckForEver]

For some reason you have this fetish with the Tories even if they are the ones who has caused this backlog. It seems like for you, it doesn't matter if it looks like duck, quacks like duck and walks like duck, you will only accept it is a duck when the duck itself comes to you saying "I'm a duck". Well good luck with that. I'm sure majority of the forum members don't share your views.

I'm presenting the facts as they are - it could be useful if you do the same instead of going on about logic and plight. Maybe you can back up the 90% of RQs?

No you’re not. You provide 3 different unrelated events and try connecting them through a loose thread. When Liberals were helpful in decreasing the required test pass score, you say it as though their actions are detrimental to the immigrant communities. Now that’s what I call a spin. When there were no complaints of backlogs until 2006 when liberals were in power and it all started to happen when Jason Kenney the immigration minister went on public saying, “Canadian Citizenship is not up for sale! There would be a total 3000+ applicants who would have their citizenship revoked”. In reality less than 30 people were convicted and that’s not even 1% of the total 3000+ applications re-evaluated. Many here would accept with me that the dreaded term Residency Questionnaire was first widely used for the first time from that point onwards, around 2009. So, yeah I have obvious proof. If you choose not to see it, then none of it is my problem.

If you re-read my post again I state the Liberals set in place the trigger for an increased PR inventory by lowering the pass mark - fact.

Even a layman would say liberal’s action was in favour of the immigrant communities and not detrimental to them. The discover Canada guide although so informative has information that practically in no way would help you to relate to the current Canadian society. Do you think native Canadians know who the last recipient of Victoria Cross is? Heck more than half of them don't care what Victoria Cross is. In that context Liberals brought down the test pass mark.

The successive Tory governments whether a minority or majority never changed the pass mark so the inventory kept growing - fact. Once the Tory majority came in the FSW was put on hold to deal with this inventory (in lieu of more resource) - fact. The increased PR inventory by default leads to an increased citizenship applicant pool - fact (especially given that you can apply with basic residency).

How come there were not a single mumble of backlog until 2006 when liberals were in power, but all started past 2009 after Jason Kenney’s ramp walk in the TV? Then how is it possible to relate this problem to liberals who were in power more than 3 years ago? Just why don't you accept that the tories didn’t respond to the volume of citizenship applications appropriately and in fact acted counter-productive by cutting staff in that department. There’s no use in having this conversation with you if you ask proof for that too.

There hasn't been an increasing match in resource to process this citizenship pool - fact.

and still that’s not the Tories’ fault? Gee . . . Why am I bothering to educate you on this problem

The Tories got their majority last time by winning Ontario big. These wins were given to them by ethnic voters - if this 'group' were to vote the same way in 2015 then the Tories get back in majority power assuming they carry their traditional strongholds.

That’s what you’re wishing for. See how many citizens’ friends, wives, kids and families are stuck up in this limbo. If I ran the conservative party I would think if this is good for the party.

If I follow you then maybe all the posters who are in the 'ethnic' demographic can ask those citizens of the same background that voted for the Tories last time round and gave them the majority to do as they pleased including CIC under the helm of JK spiking up RQs in 2012 (OB 407) not to do so this time because they are holding them back from getting their citizenship in a fast time!

yes please feel free to follow me. This is a democratic country and votes are how the people speak to their governments.

Most citizens are quite happy with the 'lets make them wait while we check them out to make sure there is no fraud etc' approach presented by the government. I think we all agree that the process can achieve both integrity (for all but especially the citizen vote) and acceptable process times for the increasingly frustrated PRs.

first statement in this entire post of you that I can totally agree with you.

1. The application fees must rise substantially to employ more resource as frankly its way too low - (many will easily spend 200 bucks on a night out/ at the mall).

Don't think so. Explain me how CIC got the funding to run the Ads on warning the marriages for convenience. Not that I'm against the Ads but I don't like the fact that people can’t put the money where their mouth is. The ads run on every major Canadian web site, CBC, immigration website. Let me ask how many 100 millions were spent on that? Yet we’re only short of 44 millions to appropriately address the citizenship backlog problem.

2. CIC must deal with the test issue as the process holding step. Easiest way is to make the test a pre-application step whilst ensuring integrity/ candidate identity. This cuts the inventory by making sure only those passing apply...why have thousands in line to wait for a judge hearing due to failed tests? CIC effectively admit this with the new re-test policy.

wonderful idea, I agree with you on this.

3. Biometrics/ fingerprints to speed up security/ background/ criminal/ immigration checks.
4. Streamline/improve the 'check' process - why does it take 3 days to process urgent PR Card renewals? Are checks not carried out for this to make sure the applicant isn't a danger to the public?

how would they have money for this alone?

5. Parliament needs to make the residence requirement a physical residence period. At the same time they should impose misrepresentation penalties/ consequences for make false statements in the citizenship application. Its unreal that you could get jail time for not paying a transit fine but get off free for lying on the application.

I do not totally accept with you! There’s gross negligence and then there honest mistakes. Your statement is generalizing everything.

6. The residence period needs to be increased subject to a service standard processing time with ombudsman oversight. CIC are de-facto making the qualifying period 5 years as things stand in line with other major G8 countries.

what good is that going to make? Not that I'm against it, I want to know why you’re recommending it? Is it because other countries are following it, so we have to? Then this statement isn’t strong enough in compelling people to implement it.

7. Requiring tax records or access via providing SIN to verify employment/ self employment. By the way unemployed/ self employed citizenship applicants face additional scrutiny in many countries so its not special to Canada as some RQd applicants seem to imply.

like this is not happening now? By the way why cut loose the unemployeds and self-employeds, because you’ve never been in any of those categories? That’s selfish. There are a whole bunch of PRs in this forum who are in either of these 2 categories. In my opinion they too need a fair, reliable process that holds both applicants and CIC accountable.

Bottom line is that the rot set in with the Liberals and continues with the Tories..who is to blame? I think most people don't care they just want some one to fix it!!

People care on who brought this mess on them. When liberals were in power, applicants got their citizenships in 6 months time frame on the average, when they enquired on the status of their applications (most of them were never required to check) they got reliable information and they were given a fair treatment. Tories brought in this mess and people need to know that. You can be a wiling victim for the tory’s cause (whatever that cause may be), but don't fight the discerning differences between right and wrong!

 

[OKK]

Liberals all the way

 

[Msafiri]

CanuckForEver,

We (very) obviously view these things differently. The forum is bigger than either one of us and we are taking away I think from the initial post that JK has move out of CIC. The simple mathematical fact that an increased pool of PRs equates to an increased pool of Citizenship applicants is the basis of my position a fact that still appears to be unclear to you. Also worth to note that the minority Tory government never had it their sole way (the Liberals had an input in Citizenship & Immigration policy) until they got their majority. If we are really nitpicking its the Liberals that had 'pole dancers' as a FSW NOC.

Lets see what father time does in regards to the elections whenever that is. Hubris appears to be what fells ruling parties - immigration/citizenship is way down the priority list as a voting issue for most citizens...they want to hear about the dollar in their pocket so the usual suspects taxation, employment, health care, child care. To give credit where its due the Liberals (with JC and PM at the helm) gave us a never to be forgotten surplus but at the expense of many fabrics of our society including an infrastructure in pretty bad shape.

However I doubt the Liberals if they won an election today would scrap the RQ and halve the processing times - the inventory is too big. In regards to programme integrity what would you suggest as a way of combating residence fraud given that the days of an honor system in residence declaration are long gone. Do you scrap the RQ? Do you have an RQ? What would it consist of? What would be your triggers?

 

[CanuckForEver]

Yes Msafiri we agree to disagree. Since you're nice and didn't try to change my perception, I wont work hard in changing yours either. After all we're entitled for our opinions. I do think, after all your explanations above, it is still the conservatives' fault.

Coming to your questions,

In regards to programme integrity what would you suggest as a way of combating residence fraud given that the days of an honor system in residence declaration are long gone.

I think the CIC already has the faculties in determining the merit of an applicant about his residency declarations. They just got to start using those privileges in determining the applicant's testimony. That's the way we combat residency fraud not giving RQ for almost every applicant who has a visit to US in his residency declaration. The CIC has the land border crossing and non-land departure related details already either by itself or by sharing info with other countries. This should be sufficient enough to scrutinize residency fraud.

Do you scrap the RQ? Do you have an RQ? What would it consist of? What would be your triggers?

In a way scrape the current RQ process. If I were the CIC minister I would have the guts to say on people's face when they pass on a false application, not using a back door strategy of prolonging the process. For people on the wall, I would give them a 2 years validity passport on the condition that they maintain their roots in Canada, even if their job involved them to go else where. I would then define what is maintaining roots based on their benefits on health care, public education and other services.

 

[torontosm]

When there were no complaints of backlogs until 2006 when liberals were in power and it all started to happen when Jason Kenney the immigration minister went on public saying, “Canadian Citizenship is not up for sale! There would be a total 3000+ applicants who would have their citizenship revoked”.

There were no complaints of backlogs because the liberals were letting everyone who applied in, and virtually handing out passports to anyone who could spell "Canada".

In that context Liberals brought down the test pass mark.

How is that a good thing? Why should we keep bending over backwards and lowering the bar for people to become Canadian? If someone can't pass the test, they shouldn't be permitted to be a citizen. It's that simple.

Let me ask how many 100 millions were spent on that? Yet we're only short of 44 millions to appropriately address the citizenship backlog problem.
[/quote]

Why does everyone on this site obsess about citizenship? It is a small piece of the overall immigration puzzle, and your suggestion to ignore other aspects to focus on this is naive. If people are truly committed to living in Canada, they can wait a bit longer to receive their passport. It's only those that are looking to leave at the first opportunity, or those that never really lived here in the first place, that are overly anxious about getting citizenship as soon as possible.

Tories brought in this mess and people need to know that. You can be a wiling victim for the tory's cause (whatever that cause may be), but don't fight the discerning differences between right and wrong!

You are free to support whichever party you like, but as for me, I like the fact that the Tories are finally trying to do something to crack down on the massive immigration fraud that has occurred over the last 15 years, and will come back to financially haunt Canadian taxpayers for many, many years to come.

 

[Canuto]

Good Riddance JK, Its a good thing that somebody up there knows what you have been doing, nice legacy , see link below. Still expects some fools in Calgary will vote for you?

Check out Jason Kenney's Blunder records posted on Huffingtonpost dated July 15, 2013.


Welcome Chris Alexander, hope you will be able to rebounce back our faith in The Conservative Party and not add insult to injury and/OR possibly aggravate the situation??? A good way to lose confidence in the party eh!

Maybe this young blood has the guts to make that change ease out our frustrations? Or will it be like ...A Turd will always be a turd even how well you polish it??? anyways....We Shall See.

 

[srinivas.vadapalli]

There were no complaints of backlogs because the liberals were letting everyone who applied in, and virtually handing out passports to anyone who could spell "Canada".

How is that a good thing? Why should we keep bending over backwards and lowering the bar for people to become Canadian? If someone can't pass the test, they shouldn't be permitted to be a citizen. It's that simple.

Let me ask how many 100 millions were spent on that? Yet we're only short of 44 millions to appropriately address the citizenship backlog problem.


Why does everyone on this site obsess about citizenship? It is a small piece of the overall immigration puzzle, and your suggestion to ignore other aspects to focus on this is naive. If people are truly committed to living in Canada, they can wait a bit longer to receive their passport. It's only those that are looking to leave at the first opportunity, or those that never really lived here in the first place, that are overly anxious about getting citizenship as soon as possible.

You are free to support whichever party you like, but as for me, I like the fact that the Tories are finally trying to do something to crack down on the massive immigration fraud that has occurred over the last 15 years, and will come back to financially haunt Canadian taxpayers for many, many years to come.

While I agree to some part of your argument, I definitely dont agree to your perception about ppl waiting for getting their Citizenship only to fly out of Canada as soon as it is granted.

I am waiting for some important changes to be made to tackle the citizenship processing delay so I could have access to more job opportunities which are currently evading me just because I am not Canadian.

Its so easy to just pass on judgements or make a statement but its quite a different thing to experience one.

Be in the shoes of person who is experiencing it first hand and you'll know why the cry for the speedy processing of Citizenship apps.

 

[NSBoy902]

Never like that guy.
Justin is the man!