devilhimselff
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born in USSR confusion
- Thread starter kinaspissuh
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It is obvious that sashali78 and I have personal experience dealing with issues surrounding former USSR citizens and IRCC, while you have avoided the question. You are giving generic advice, unless you possess competence in this very specific area, overruling advice by those of us with that experience.
It is unlikely that OP's phone call to IRCC is going to be answered by someone familiar with former USSR citizen issues. While sashali78 and I have successfully been navigating through IRCC with our former USSR citizenship issues -- we already have those answers.
If you do not know what you're talking about, then you should not interfere with those of us who do -- by doing so, you are doing a disservice to OP who is already confused by the contradictory advice received thus far.
The question is pretty clear "have you ever had immigration or citizenship status in any other country other then Canada, including your country of birth?"
The answer to this question is your current passport. I assume you hold Ukraine passport, then the answer is Ukraine. If you hold both Ukraine and Russian passport (probably through your parents), then the answer is Ukraine and Russia.
Lets keep it simple and not complicate the situation. As long as you answer what the question asks, you are ok.
That answer is INCORRECT, because it neglects to mention his previous Soviet citizenship. He must declare that he was a citizen of the USSR.
If you are not a former citizen of the USSR and have no experience dealing with IRCC as a former citizen of the USSR, please don't "guess" what the correct answer is and make authoritative pronouncements, when there are two of us who have that experience advising OP.
OP has complained of being confused by contradictory advice. If you lack experience in this particular area, please don't add to the confusion.
I still think the question is clear and so should the answer. There are only two answers, its either Ukraine or Ukraine and USSR both which I have mentioned.
He is not the first person or the last person going through this dilemma. There are other situations where the country came into existence only after the person was born.
He is not the first person or the last person going through this dilemma. There are other situations where the country came into existence only after the person was born.
I was born in USSR... It collapsed a year after I was born...
2 things to take into consideration here:
1. IRCC is well aware of this and I had same questions when I applied for my PR. Basically the answer to me at the time (from agents from IRCC and immigration lawyer that I used) was to stick with your current citizenship. So I stuck with it, I did not mention USSR and I did not mention USSR when I applied for citizenship (I received AOR and awaiting my test invite now).
2. USSR was not a country, it was a Union of Republics, just like EU now (not fully but somewhat similar in its structure)... So you were born a citizen of that republic where you were born... Ukraine was Ukrainian Soviet Republic, and you were a citizen of the Ukrainian Soviet Republic...
In other words... Whatever you put will be fine... IRCC is not stupid... There are thousands of people from former USSR countries applying every year and some put USSR as a place of birth, and some put their respective countries... No one has ever got in trouble because of that... Do as you deem appropriate, it's not like you are lying...
P.S. You will probably say "yeah, but people held USSR passports, did they not?, does it not mean they were citizens of the USSR?"
My answer is this: No, it does not. every USSR passport had the field that said NATIONALITY (I looked at my parents' USSR passports when I had this dillema), and there, in that field to be more precise, it said: ukrainian, russian, latvian etc.
Just like every EU passport now has a red color cover and words "European Union" in their respective language on every passport... It does grant freedom of movement, and technically you are a EU citizen, but I am sure people put Germany, France, Spain etc. as their citizenship...
I hope you see what I am saying...
The EU is not a country and does not issue its citizens passports. All passports are required to state citizenship. EU nation passports state that the person named is a citizen of the country that issued the passport (e.g., Germany). The USSR was a country and issued its citizens passports. USSR passports stated that the person named is a citizen of the USSR. USSR [international] passports did not include "nationality" -- that was only included in the [domestic] passport. (The USSR, and Russia today, called their IDs passports, but they were only for use within the USSR.)
Just as an American can also be a citizen of California, a Soviet citizen could also be a citizen of Ukraine -- these are supra-citizenships, just as EU citizenship is a super-citizenship, and they are not recognized in international citizenship law.
A former citizen of the USSR is required to state that citizenship on their citizenship application. The application requires that ALL citizenships be listed. We certainly listed it in all our applications, including visa application, PR application, and citizenship application.
USSR was a union of republics. It was not a country.
I do agree that EU is not a country, I did not say it was, and I mentioned that they are only similar in their structure, so do not put words into my mouth please.
If he wants to put USSR as his citizenship for a year or whatever the period was - he can do so, there is absolutely no harm in doing that. What I was trying to say though, that even if he does not include it - he will not get in trouble. This issue has been debated over for many years, and there is no one correct answer. Some do it one way, the others do it the other way. I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble over this. IRCC is well aware of this dillema.
I was born in USSR and I have never put it on any of my Visa/WP/SP/PR applications (I applied for different types of visas/extensions/and then PR obviously multiple times)... Following your logic I should have been deported due to misrepresentation already.. But I am still here. Surely they could put 2 and 2 together and figure out that I was born in USSR just looking at my year of birth, but they never bothered. And I am only one example out of thousands...
My take on this is: whatever he does - he will be fine...
I have never stated that someone will be punished for not stating that they were a citizen of the former USSR. I have only stated that it is required on the citizenship form. I do not know what impact not stating it will have. It is possible that it may go completely unnoticed. It is also possible that IRCC is not stringent about this issue. But the application is clear in requesting all citizenships one has possessed.
The USSR was a union of republics in exactly the same way Canada is a union of provinces and Germany is a union of states. That does not prevent the USSR from being a country, and the individual republics from being constituent members of the USSR. No Soviet passport stated the named individual was a citizen of one of the republics, it always states that the individual is a citizen of the USSR.
Okay I agree with your point somewhat, not fully, but I see where you are coming from.
I will admit: to play it extra safe, it is probably better to state that he was a citizen of USSR for a short period of time before it collapsed...
I remember speaking about this issue with the immigration lawyer when I was applying for my PR and I remember him quoting something that CIC (IRCC) had that said something like: in cases where countries ceased to exist, place of birth/citizenship could be stated as both of that country that ceased to exist and as the other country that took over. Basically, it is not illegal to say you are Latvian and were born in Latvia when in fact you were born during USSR's reign. It is also not illegal to say you were born in USSR... Both options are acceptable by IRCC... They understand. Additionally, it does not really affect anything, so in any event, even if the IRCC agent sees it and acknowledges it, he/she will probably ignore it because it is irrelevant...
Just another remark: I just checked my passport, it says Place of Birth: Latvia, not USSR. Surely the country that issued me my passport (I am not Latvian by citizenship, but I was born there) knows that when I was born, it was still considered to be USSR. My point is, even Post-Soviet countries do not go crazy over this technicality. It is implied and understood without explaining it. Ukraine = USSR before 1991, so are the other nations that were the part of it.
My PR card at the back says: COB: Latvia (should have been USSR if we are technical about it).
But I do get where you are coming from. We have different opinions on this, which is fine...
I think we are complicating the issue, lets come back to the basic question
"have you ever had immigration or citizenship status in any other country other then Canada, including your country of birth?"
Ukraine for sure would be answer. The only debate is, if he is also a USSR citizen. To resolve this issue, we can do it this way, if he had or has Russian citizenship doc (passport or any doc), then he includes USSR otherwise Ukraine is sufficient.
I will agree with ukulele that nationality on a USSR passport had your ethnicity mentioned Ukrainian etc. Its different than a canadian passport, in canadian passport nationality doesnt mention ethnicity at all. You could be African, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese or whatever but nationality is always Canadian but in USSR passport it was different.
Hope this clarifies the issue.
"have you ever had immigration or citizenship status in any other country other then Canada, including your country of birth?"
Ukraine for sure would be answer. The only debate is, if he is also a USSR citizen. To resolve this issue, we can do it this way, if he had or has Russian citizenship doc (passport or any doc), then he includes USSR otherwise Ukraine is sufficient.
I will agree with ukulele that nationality on a USSR passport had your ethnicity mentioned Ukrainian etc. Its different than a canadian passport, in canadian passport nationality doesnt mention ethnicity at all. You could be African, Pakistani, Indian, Chinese or whatever but nationality is always Canadian but in USSR passport it was different.
Hope this clarifies the issue.
One can have been a citizen of the USSR without being a citizen of The Russian Federation. In fact, one can be stateless after having been a citizen of the USSR (Russians born and living in Latvia being a great example of that).
Just as one would not state that their citizenship is African American, Hispanic or Caucasian because their American identification identifies them as such, one would not put Russian as their citizenship if they were never, in fact, citizens of The Russian Federation.
OP is already confused. While ukelele makes some good points, and has experience as a former Soviet citizen, strangers to this issue who just add random thoughts are probably not helpful.
From personal experience:
I was born in Russia (during USSR existence) and always written in any CIC applications the place of birth - "Russia", and all my documents issued by CIC list USSR as place of birth.
I assume that there must be an algorithm in their programs that converts things "USSR" automatically. And I never had any problems related to this USSR vs. National republics place of birth/citizenship issues.
I was born in Russia (during USSR existence) and always written in any CIC applications the place of birth - "Russia", and all my documents issued by CIC list USSR as place of birth.
I assume that there must be an algorithm in their programs that converts things "USSR" automatically. And I never had any problems related to this USSR vs. National republics place of birth/citizenship issues.
devilhimselff
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As there is confusion and everyone has a different opinion, just to be safe include an explanation letter, it covers you, and no risk of misrepresentation.
Call cic as well, as mentioned above, you won't be the first one to contact them, they'll have a good idea of what to do. Besides you'll have official advice that you can follow. It's idiotic to think that they won't have an answer.
Call cic as well, as mentioned above, you won't be the first one to contact them, they'll have a good idea of what to do. Besides you'll have official advice that you can follow. It's idiotic to think that they won't have an answer.
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